Russia Was Not a Democratic Hoax

[BillStime]

20 minutes ago, Westside said:

Still the dumbasses on the far left believe it to be true! Who’s in a cult?

lol

 

Why did the Trump campaign meet with the Russians 140+ times?

Why did the Paul Manafort share campaign polling data with Russians?

Why did the Trump campaign coordinate with Wikileaks on the DNC stolen data dump?

 

Why? Oh why...

 

[JaCrispy]

On 5/9/2022 at 6:50 AM, Tiberius said:

Is it a crime to do Putin's bidding? 

Yes...that’s why Trump was found not guilty...😉

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Time for a thread title change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

                             

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

The FBI knew RussiaGate was a lie — but hid that truth

 

The FBI knew the Trump-Russia collusion narrative was utter bunk even as it suggested otherwise to Congress, the courts and the public early in 2017. Evidence revealed by special counsel John Durham proves it beyond dispute. At RealClearInvestigations, Paul Sperry lays out the case.Declassified for Durham’s probe, a March 2017 memo prepared by Lisa Page for FBI head James Comey’s meeting with Congress’ “Gang of Eight” — the bipartisan House and Senate leaders who oversee the most classified stuff — was a total cook-up job. It advised Comey to present accusations that Trump’s campaign chair Paul Manafort and foreign policy adviser Carter Page were working with the Russian government

 

https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/the-fbi-knew-russiagate-was-a-lie-but-hid-that-truth/

 

 

 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

No way

 

 

[Doc]

Still a hoax.

[BillStime]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

Still a hoax.

We know - you’re conditioned well qDoc - your keepers appreciate your unwavering support.

 

 

[Albwan]

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 hours ago, BillStime said:

We know - you’re conditioned well qDoc - your keepers appreciate your unwavering support.

 

 

All documents related to the Russia collusion story should be declassified and released.  Not just one memo.  We should know the facts and the truth.  Nothing should be hidden.  If anyone broke the law here in any respect, they should be prosecuted.  No exceptions.    

 

But what I conclude is that the government has no interest in transparency or providing the public with all the facts.  if DOJ and the Intelligence Community thought any or all of the documents and communications related to the Russia collusion story could implicate Trump, they would have released them already.  To the contrary to seeking transparency and disclosure, the FBI conducted a raid authorized by Garland targeting the retrieval of any Russia election collusion story documents because they feared they'd be released to the public.  And possibly used by Trump's legal team in his lawsuit against Hillary on charges of manufacturing the story.  I expect they'll continue to hide behind the usual national security and method and procedures excuses for withholding the truth from the people they're supposed to serve. 

 

Regardless of the outcome, we should all agree, the government should release everything so once and for all we can all know the truth.  And in the specific memo above, I say release it.

Edited August 20, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

All documents related to the Russia collusion story should be declassified and released.  Not just one memo.  We should know the facts and the truth.  Nothing should be hidden.  If anyone broke the law here in any respect, they should be prosecuted.  No exceptions.    

 

But what I conclude is that the government has no interest in transparency or providing the public with all the facts.  if DOJ and the Intelligence Community thought any or all of the documents and communications related to the Russia collusion story could implicate Trump, they would have released them already.  To the contrary to seeking transparency and disclosure, the FBI conducted a raid authorized by Garland targeting the retrieval of any Russia election collusion story documents because they feared they'd be released to the public.  And possibly used by Trump's legal team in his lawsuit against Hillary on charges of manufacturing the story.  I expect they'll continue to hide behind the usual national security and method and procedures excuses for withholding the truth from the people they're supposed to serve. 

 

Regardless of the outcome, we should all agree, the government should release everything so once and for all we can all know the truth.  And in the specific memo above, I say release it.

You had to ruin your solid POV with that middle paragraph didn’t you? lolz

[Tiberius]

39 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

All documents related to the Russia collusion story should be declassified and released.  Not just one memo.  We should know the facts and the truth.  Nothing should be hidden.  If anyone broke the law here in any respect, they should be prosecuted.  No exceptions.    

 

But what I conclude is that the government has no interest in transparency or providing the public with all the facts.  if DOJ and the Intelligence Community thought any or all of the documents and communications related to the Russia collusion story could implicate Trump, they would have released them already.  To the contrary to seeking transparency and disclosure, the FBI conducted a raid authorized by Garland targeting the retrieval of any Russia election collusion story documents because they feared they'd be released to the public.  And possibly used by Trump's legal team in his lawsuit against Hillary on charges of manufacturing the story.  I expect they'll continue to hide behind the usual national security and method and procedures excuses for withholding the truth from the people they're supposed to serve. 

 

Regardless of the outcome, we should all agree, the government should release everything so once and for all we can all know the truth.  And in the specific memo above, I say release it.

Would really like to have Trump testify under oath about his Putin love 

[Irv]

More lies by the desperate Democrats.  More distraction. Fake investigations.  November can’t come soon enough.  What a mess.  

[Doc]

It was always about feelz.  "How could Trump beat Hillary?  It must have been the Russians!  Yeah, that's it!"

 

Morons.

[Brueggs]

On 8/18/2020 at 2:00 PM, Kemp said:

 

Trump supporters don't care about facts. They're in a cult.

What about people that just want the truth?  People are so biased and brainwashed, that they quite literally will not accept facts/truth unless they coincide with what they believe in.  They will readily accept a lie as the truth if it matches their beliefs.  The never Trumpers are every bit, if not more of a cult.  The entire Russia saga originated from a document that is a known lie by all parties at this point, yet those that wish it to be true cling to it because its what they want to believe.  

[Nineforty]

 

 

[Nineforty]

 

[nedboy7]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:44 AM, Doc said:

It was always about feelz.  "How could Trump beat Hillary?  It must have been the Russians!  Yeah, that's it!"

 

Morons.

have you ever criticized trump? 

[Nineforty]

https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/08/24/the-barr-memo-relied-on-covering-up-the-ongoing-roger-stone-investigation/

On 8/20/2022 at 9:44 AM, Doc said:

It was always about feelz.  "How could Trump beat Hillary?  It must have been the Russians!  Yeah, that's it!"

 

Morons.

 

Are you okay with the then-attorney general shutting down an active investigation into Roger Stone for conspiring with Russia ("hack n dump"), which was referred by Mueller's team to the DOJ?

 

Yes or no will suffice. ***** traitors. 

 

 

[nedboy7]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:15 AM, Irv said:

More lies by the desperate Democrats.  More distraction. Fake investigations.  November can’t come soon enough.  What a mess.  

Why read anything that could hurt your fragile reality. 

[Nineforty]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:33 AM, Brueggs said:

What about people that just want the truth?  People are so biased and brainwashed, that they quite literally will not accept facts/truth unless they coincide with what they believe in.  They will readily accept a lie as the truth if it matches their beliefs.  The never Trumpers are every bit, if not more of a cult.  The entire Russia saga originated from a document that is a known lie by all parties at this point, yet those that wish it to be true cling to it because its what they want to believe.  

I dont disagree with first few bits but then you lose me.

 

If you are describing the Steele Dossier, then you are incorrect in stating that that was what led to Crossfire Hurricane investigation being opened by the FBI. I know it's tough when one side repeats a lie so often. 

 

It was in fact George Papadopoulos (just a Trump campaign coffee boy?) boasting of the Russians having damaging info on Clinton and this was relayed by the Australian govt to the US. 

 

I don't need one piece of true or false evidence from the dossier to tell me Donald Trump is a crook and a traitor to this country.  There is plenty of other criming and evidence available to hold historians (and the current and future prosecutors) over for a century from his one term tenure. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

24 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

I dont disagree with first few bits but then you lose me.

 

If you are describing the Steele Dossier, then you are incorrect in stating that that was what led to Crossfire Hurricane investigation being opened by the FBI. I know it's tough when one side repeats a lie so often. 

 

It was in fact George Papadopoulos (just a Trump campaign coffee boy?) boasting of the Russians having damaging info on Clinton and this was relayed by the Australian govt to the US. 

 

I don't need one piece of true or false evidence from the dossier to tell me Donald Trump is a crook and a traitor to this country.  There is plenty of other criming and evidence available to hold historians (and the current and future prosecutors) over for a century from his one term tenure. 

I'm going to tell you the part of the story you're missing, or ignoring.  Let's say Papadopoulos did boast of that.  And was his boast of and by itself a crime?  And let's say it wasn't the Steele dossier.  And lets say the Russians did have dirt on Clinton. 

 

What was the intent of the intelligence community and the FBI in investigating the Trump campaign?  One, to identify and acquire the dirt on Clinton, assess it, and if credible, build a legal case to prosecute and convict her for crimes?  Or two, to perform surveillance on the Trump campaign in order discredit the candidate, suppress and bury the dirt and evidence of Clinton's crimes in order to protect her? 

 

The answer is number two.  Instead of facilitating the disclosure of dirt on Clinton's "crimes" the agencies decided the crime was any attempt to disclose the dirt.  To harm Trump and to protect Clinton.  That's how the establishment rolls.  If you have evidence of any wrongdoing by one of its members you are the criminal if you try to disclose it.  

[Doc]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

have you ever criticized trump? 

 

Yes.  I thought he should have acted more Presidential after winning and stopped using Twitter.  But he is what he is.  As I've said, it's the lesser of two evils and I'll take him over the senile and incompetent idiot currently in the Oval Office.

 

Have you ever criticized Biden?  Hillary?

 

2 hours ago, Nineforty said:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/08/24/the-barr-memo-relied-on-covering-up-the-ongoing-roger-stone-investigation/

 

Are you okay with the then-attorney general shutting down an active investigation into Roger Stone for conspiring with Russia ("hack n dump"), which was referred by Mueller's team to the DOJ?

 

Yes or no will suffice. ***** traitors.

 

As one of the replies asks "what is Garland waiting for?"

 

Give it up.  Hillary lost.  You guys couldn't handle it because you thought Dems would only ever win Presidential elections from then on and/or she was a shoo-in so you latched-onto whatever conspiracy theory you were fed to deny the election.  You still have zero evidence as to how Russia influenced that election and Obama's admin knew Russia was trying to interfere, as they have been for decades, and did nothing about it.  Why do you suppose that was?

Edited August 25, 2022 by Doc

[B-Man]

 

 

Quick reminder:

 

 

 

 

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yes.  I thought he should have acted more Presidential after winning and stopped using Twitter.  But he is what he is.  As I've said, it's the lesser of two evils and I'll take him over the senile and incompetent idiot currently in the Oval Office.

 

Have you ever criticized Biden?  Hillary?

 

 

As one of the replies asks "what is Garland waiting for?"

 

Give it up.  Hillary lost.  You guys couldn't handle it because you thought Dems would only ever win Presidential elections from then on and/or she was a shoo-in so you latched-onto whatever conspiracy theory you were fed to deny the election.  You still have zero evidence as to how Russia influenced that election and Obama's admin knew Russia was trying to interfere, as they have been for decades, and did nothing about it.  Why do you suppose that was?

that’s it?  His twitter usage?  Pretty weak. 
Of course I criticize those two. I’m not in a cult.
Im not a huge Biden fan.  Or a Hillary fan.  But they aren’t deranged. 

Example. Not a fan of student loan forgiveness. 
Infinitely more palatable than banning abortion w no exceptions. 

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

that’s it?  His twitter usage?  Pretty weak. 
Of course I criticize those two. I’m not in a cult.
Im not a huge Biden fan.  Or a Hillary fan.  But they aren’t deranged. 

Example. Not a fan of student loan forgiveness. 
Infinitely more palatable than banning abortion w no exceptions. 

 

No, not just his Twitter usage.  And I can live with up to 20 weeks for abortion, but can't argue with it being a State's rights issue.

 

As for Trump being deranged, Biden looks feeble on the world's stage.  Again, lesser of two evils.  I'll take that over the far-left turn the Dems have taken and the bad policies that have made the issues caused by the pandemic worse.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Doc

[Irv]

14 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Why read anything that could hurt your fragile reality. 

 

I'm actually quite fragile thanks to the disaster Demented Biden and his buddies have created for our once great country.  Put your empty head back in the sand.  What a mess.  

[Nineforty]

Just keep saying hoax a million times until it magically becomes real? 

 

 

[BillStime]

18 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

Just keep saying hoax a million times until it magically becomes real? 

 

 

And Barr did EVERYTHING to shield the Trumps’ administration obstruction of justice. 

[nedboy7]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

 

No, not just his Twitter usage.  And I can live with up to 20 weeks for abortion, but can't argue with it being a State's rights issue.

 

As for Trump being deranged, Biden looks feeble on the world's stage.  Again, lesser of two evils.  I'll take that over the far-left turn the Dems have taken and the bad policies that have made the issues caused by the pandemic worse.

 

That is the right wing take. If you actually read foreign news and analysis Biden has been much better for the US.  Trump was viewed as a triggered moron so much that people are ok with Biden's issues.  The Dems have definitely made mistakes with the vaccine mandate.  But at least they did not suggest it was a hoax or that a global pandemic was created by the other party.  One is bad policy the other is insanity. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by nedboy7

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

31 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

That is the right wing take. If you actually read foreign news and analysis Biden has been much better for the US.  Trump was viewed as a triggered moron so much that people are ok with Biden's issues.  The Dems have definitely made mistakes with the vaccine mandate.  But at least they did not suggest it was a hoax or that a global pandemic was created by the other party.  One is bad policy the other is insanity. 

Again, sadly, you're wrong.  Hate Trump as you will, but you're making up stories that do not align with the facts. 

 

Dem leadership encouraged and often participated in mass gatherings of individuals throughout critical period of COVID spread.  This was taking place when national lockdown orders were in place, and those of us who were compliant, complied.  In that regard, they were screaming from the treetops for people to hunker down, stay 6' apart, let loved ones die alone and afraid in hospitals and nursing homes, while tacitly encouraging people to gather and protest arm in arm and take the virus home to their own communities.  

 

Dem leadership was directly responsible for creating vaccine confusion and creating trust issues about the vaccine.  The #2 person in the party was the worst offender, telling millions of supporters not to trust a vaccine developed under a R president. 

 

Dem leadership has been very, very active in redefining and recasting what it means to be fully vaccinated.  There was a time--we were all in it together back then, mostly--when dems and vax enthusiasts claimed that anyone who wouldn't vax up was basically an enemy of humanity.  They went from two shots and a booster to suddenly suggesting that the country was doing a reeeeeaaaallllly good job on vaxing when nearly 70% of the citizens had "at least one" shot of a multi-shot regimen.   When in doubt, the dems simply change the benchmark. 

 

It's no surprise the death count under Biden vastly exceeds that of Trump, especially in light of the tools available to Biden that were developed under Trump--Biden and co have been an absolute disaster at leading in this regard.  Under Trump, they encouraged and supported behavior absolutely designed to spread the virus.  Death, illness and suffering was very good politically for them in the lead-up to the election. 

[nedboy7]

10 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Again, sadly, you're wrong.  Hate Trump as you will, but you're making up stories that do not align with the facts. 

 

Dem leadership encouraged and often participated in mass gatherings of individuals throughout critical period of COVID spread.  This was taking place when national lockdown orders were in place, and those of us who were compliant, complied.  In that regard, they were screaming from the treetops for people to hunker down, stay 6' apart, let loved ones die alone and afraid in hospitals and nursing homes, while tacitly encouraging people to gather and protest arm in arm and take the virus home to their own communities.  

 

Dem leadership was directly responsible for creating vaccine confusion and creating trust issues about the vaccine.  The #2 person in the party was the worst offender, telling millions of supporters not to trust a vaccine developed under a R president. 

 

Dem leadership has been very, very active in redefining and recasting what it means to be fully vaccinated.  There was a time--we were all in it together back then, mostly--when dems and vax enthusiasts claimed that anyone who wouldn't vax up was basically an enemy of humanity.  They went from two shots and a booster to suddenly suggesting that the country was doing a reeeeeaaaallllly good job on vaxing when nearly 70% of the citizens had "at least one" shot of a multi-shot regimen.   When in doubt, the dems simply change the benchmark. 

 

It's no surprise the death count under Biden vastly exceeds that of Trump, especially in light of the tools available to Biden that were developed under Trump--Biden and co have been an absolute disaster at leading in this regard.  Under Trump, they encouraged and supported behavior absolutely designed to spread the virus.  Death, illness and suffering was very good politically for them in the lead-up to the election. 

 

What story am I making?  You quite foxy.  That's some classic jargon there. 

21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Again, sadly, you're wrong.  Hate Trump as you will, but you're making up stories that do not align with the facts. 

 

Dem leadership encouraged and often participated in mass gatherings of individuals throughout critical period of COVID spread.  This was taking place when national lockdown orders were in place, and those of us who were compliant, complied.  In that regard, they were screaming from the treetops for people to hunker down, stay 6' apart, let loved ones die alone and afraid in hospitals and nursing homes, while tacitly encouraging people to gather and protest arm in arm and take the virus home to their own communities.  

 

Dem leadership was directly responsible for creating vaccine confusion and creating trust issues about the vaccine.  The #2 person in the party was the worst offender, telling millions of supporters not to trust a vaccine developed under a R president. 

 

Dem leadership has been very, very active in redefining and recasting what it means to be fully vaccinated.  There was a time--we were all in it together back then, mostly--when dems and vax enthusiasts claimed that anyone who wouldn't vax up was basically an enemy of humanity.  They went from two shots and a booster to suddenly suggesting that the country was doing a reeeeeaaaallllly good job on vaxing when nearly 70% of the citizens had "at least one" shot of a multi-shot regimen.   When in doubt, the dems simply change the benchmark. 

 

It's no surprise the death count under Biden vastly exceeds that of Trump, especially in light of the tools available to Biden that were developed under Trump--Biden and co have been an absolute disaster at leading in this regard.  Under Trump, they encouraged and supported behavior absolutely designed to spread the virus.  Death, illness and suffering was very good politically for them in the lead-up to the election. 

 

 

Here are some facts for your story. 

 

 

The United States passed yet another grim coronavirus milestone in November: We have now seen more deaths from the virus in 2021 than we did in all of 2020 — despite the advent of vaccines.

Naturally, this has led to plenty of partisan politicking, with conservatives and Republicans using it to argue that President Biden has failed in his promise to get the virus under control. Some have gone so far as to say this stat proves Biden’s handling of the virus is worse than President Donald Trump’s was.

As with all coronavirus stats, such comparisons can easily be manipulated depending upon when waves occur, etc., and stripped of context. And that context is less damning for Biden vis-a-vis Trump.

The Wall Street Journal editorial board got the ball rolling last week. In an editorial titled, “Biden’s Covid Death Milestone,” it noted the 2021-vs.-2020 comparison.

“It would seem that Mr. Biden has done no better than Donald Trump in defeating covid despite the benefit of vaccines, better therapies and more clinical experience,” argued the editorial, which Trump himself went on to promote.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) has echoed the point: “I took [Biden] at his word when he said he was going to get covid under control. Unfortunately, more Americans have died this year than last year under covid.”

Fox News’s Tucker Carlson intoned Monday night, while arguing against Biden’s tenure as president: “More Americans have died from covid in 2021 than died in 2020 before there was a shot.”

And Breitbart said: “The U.S. death toll … under Joe Biden’s administration will soon surpass the death toll recorded during Donald Trump’s administration, and in less time.”

As the Wall Street Journal’s editorial noted, Biden has set himself up for such comparisons. As a candidate in 2020, he commented on what were then 220,000 deaths, saying that “anyone that is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.”

From there, it’s a question of just how many deaths the president is actually responsible for. Too often, criticisms of Trump devolved into suggesting (explicitly or implicitly, as Biden did) that a president could have prevented all those deaths. The worldwide experience with the virus proves otherwise. They also often ignored per capita numbers.

The comparison between 2020 and 2021 is also inapt in that Trump was still president in early 2021, and the effects of choices made before Biden took over (such as Trump not really encouraging people to get vaccinated) lingered into Biden’s early presidency. The biggest wave of the coronavirus in this country, in fact, peaked around the exact time Biden was inaugurated on Jan. 20. Inheriting a trendline that showed 3,000 deaths per day, as Biden did, is a recipe for inflating your numbers.

(To a significant degree, that wave was outside Trump’s control, of course; most places in the world were experiencing the worst wave of the virus at the time.)

Even if we assumed all things were equal, though, the comparison still struggles.

Both presidents presided over about 10 months of the pandemic. The World Health Organization declared that label on March 11, meaning Trump was president for a little more than 10 months of the formally declared pandemic. Biden has now passed a little more than 10 months in office as well.

Thus far, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Biden has presided over about 353,000 deaths in a little over 10 months, compared to about 425,000 for Trump in his final 10-plus months. So there have still been fewer deaths under Biden than under Trump, in a similar time period.

The best comparison to my mind, though, is not the raw numbers — which depend upon how bad things are, when waves occur, emerging variants, etc. — but how we compare to the rest of the world. Just as the best comparisons for Trump’s numbers worldwide were per capita and relative, so, too, are Biden’s.

What we can say: Under Biden, we have accounted for a significantly smaller share of worldwide deaths than under Trump.

The 425,000 deaths we saw in Trump’s 10-plus months accounted for nearly 20 percent of all worldwide deaths, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Since Biden took over, the world as a whole has seen more deaths in his 10 months (3.07 million) than the preceding 10 months (2.14 million), but the United States has seen fewer. In Biden’s 10-plus months, the United States has accounted for less than 12 percent of worldwide deaths, which is down from 19.9 percent under Trump. That’s a decline of more than 40 percent in our proportion of the worldwide death rate.

Again, no comparisons are perfect. But if you look at how the virus has spread in similar countries between the two 10-month periods, the United States is generally doing better than it was, relatively speaking. Before Jan. 20, Europe accounted for more than 30 percent of coronavirus deaths; after that date, Europe has accounted for 25.2 percent of deaths. That’s a smaller drop — about 16.5 percent — than we have seen in the United States, even as Europe’s continentwide vaccination rate is similar.

Within Europe, you can cherry-pick your comparisons, but let’s focus on a couple of countries. The United Kingdom, with its very high vaccination rates, has gone from 4.4 percent of worldwide deaths pre-Jan. 20 to 1.7 percent afterward — a bigger relative drop than the United States. Germany has gone from 2.3 percent to 1.7 percent, a smaller drop than the United States.

The question from there is how you factor in the vaccines and other variables. We have a superior health system to most countries and widely available vaccines, which should put us in a better position even as the worldwide death rate has increased during Biden’s tenure. But the most pronounced vaccine reluctance comes from those who have little regard for Biden’s public health advice. On the one hand, Biden as president is responsible for persuading Americans to get vaccinated; on the other hand, those people who are very disproportionately accounting for coronavirus deaths right now — the unvaccinated — are in large number those who won’t listen to him.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

That is the right wing take. If you actually read foreign news and analysis Biden has been much better for the US.  Trump was viewed as a triggered moron so much that people are ok with Biden's issues.  The Dems have definitely made mistakes with the vaccine mandate.  But at least they did not suggest it was a hoax or that a global pandemic was created by the other party.  One is bad policy the other is insanity. 

 

That is the far left wing take.  Because the majority of America wouldn't even make that claim.  And again, without fake scandals.  Biden looks like a feeble and incompetent moron.  He was no better with Wuhan virus, if not worse, than Trump when his campaign promise was to shut it down, and worse still he did what you guys got upset at Trump for doing by not taking responsibility for it.  Then he made all the issues that arose from Wuhan virus worse with his terrible policies.

[nedboy7]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That is the far left wing take.  Because the majority of America wouldn't even make that claim.  And again, without fake scandals.  Biden looks like a feeble and incompetent moron.  He was no better with Wuhan virus, if not worse, than Trump when his campaign promise was to shut it down, and worse still he did what you guys got upset at Trump for doing by not taking responsibility for it.  Then he made all the issues that arose from Wuhan virus worse with his terrible policies.

 

Some foreigners like Trump.  Bolsonaro seems to like Trump.  I know most republicans love that idiot too.  He is already claiming the election is rigged if he looses.  Classic fascist play. 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Some foreigners like Trump.  Bolsonaro seems to like Trump.  I know most republicans love that idiot too.  He is already claiming the election is rigged if he looses.  Classic fascist play. 

 

Yup.  Just like during Trump's Presidency...

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

48 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

What story am I making?  You quite foxy.  That's some classic jargon there. 

 

 

Here are some facts for your story. 

 

 

The United States passed yet another grim coronavirus milestone in November: We have now seen more deaths from the virus in 2021 than we did in all of 2020 — despite the advent of vaccines.

Naturally, this has led to plenty of partisan politicking, with conservatives and Republicans using it to argue that President Biden has failed in his promise to get the virus under control. Some have gone so far as to say this stat proves Biden’s handling of the virus is worse than President Donald Trump’s was.

As with all coronavirus stats, such comparisons can easily be manipulated depending upon when waves occur, etc., and stripped of context. And that context is less damning for Biden vis-a-vis Trump.

The Wall Street Journal editorial board got the ball rolling last week. In an editorial titled, “Biden’s Covid Death Milestone,” it noted the 2021-vs.-2020 comparison.

“It would seem that Mr. Biden has done no better than Donald Trump in defeating covid despite the benefit of vaccines, better therapies and more clinical experience,” argued the editorial, which Trump himself went on to promote.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) has echoed the point: “I took [Biden] at his word when he said he was going to get covid under control. Unfortunately, more Americans have died this year than last year under covid.”

Fox News’s Tucker Carlson intoned Monday night, while arguing against Biden’s tenure as president: “More Americans have died from covid in 2021 than died in 2020 before there was a shot.”

And Breitbart said: “The U.S. death toll … under Joe Biden’s administration will soon surpass the death toll recorded during Donald Trump’s administration, and in less time.”

As the Wall Street Journal’s editorial noted, Biden has set himself up for such comparisons. As a candidate in 2020, he commented on what were then 220,000 deaths, saying that “anyone that is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.”

From there, it’s a question of just how many deaths the president is actually responsible for. Too often, criticisms of Trump devolved into suggesting (explicitly or implicitly, as Biden did) that a president could have prevented all those deaths. The worldwide experience with the virus proves otherwise. They also often ignored per capita numbers.

The comparison between 2020 and 2021 is also inapt in that Trump was still president in early 2021, and the effects of choices made before Biden took over (such as Trump not really encouraging people to get vaccinated) lingered into Biden’s early presidency. The biggest wave of the coronavirus in this country, in fact, peaked around the exact time Biden was inaugurated on Jan. 20. Inheriting a trendline that showed 3,000 deaths per day, as Biden did, is a recipe for inflating your numbers.

(To a significant degree, that wave was outside Trump’s control, of course; most places in the world were experiencing the worst wave of the virus at the time.)

Even if we assumed all things were equal, though, the comparison still struggles.

Both presidents presided over about 10 months of the pandemic. The World Health Organization declared that label on March 11, meaning Trump was president for a little more than 10 months of the formally declared pandemic. Biden has now passed a little more than 10 months in office as well.

Thus far, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Biden has presided over about 353,000 deaths in a little over 10 months, compared to about 425,000 for Trump in his final 10-plus months. So there have still been fewer deaths under Biden than under Trump, in a similar time period.

The best comparison to my mind, though, is not the raw numbers — which depend upon how bad things are, when waves occur, emerging variants, etc. — but how we compare to the rest of the world. Just as the best comparisons for Trump’s numbers worldwide were per capita and relative, so, too, are Biden’s.

What we can say: Under Biden, we have accounted for a significantly smaller share of worldwide deaths than under Trump.

The 425,000 deaths we saw in Trump’s 10-plus months accounted for nearly 20 percent of all worldwide deaths, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Since Biden took over, the world as a whole has seen more deaths in his 10 months (3.07 million) than the preceding 10 months (2.14 million), but the United States has seen fewer. In Biden’s 10-plus months, the United States has accounted for less than 12 percent of worldwide deaths, which is down from 19.9 percent under Trump. That’s a decline of more than 40 percent in our proportion of the worldwide death rate.

Again, no comparisons are perfect. But if you look at how the virus has spread in similar countries between the two 10-month periods, the United States is generally doing better than it was, relatively speaking. Before Jan. 20, Europe accounted for more than 30 percent of coronavirus deaths; after that date, Europe has accounted for 25.2 percent of deaths. That’s a smaller drop — about 16.5 percent — than we have seen in the United States, even as Europe’s continentwide vaccination rate is similar.

Within Europe, you can cherry-pick your comparisons, but let’s focus on a couple of countries. The United Kingdom, with its very high vaccination rates, has gone from 4.4 percent of worldwide deaths pre-Jan. 20 to 1.7 percent afterward — a bigger relative drop than the United States. Germany has gone from 2.3 percent to 1.7 percent, a smaller drop than the United States.

The question from there is how you factor in the vaccines and other variables. We have a superior health system to most countries and widely available vaccines, which should put us in a better position even as the worldwide death rate has increased during Biden’s tenure. But the most pronounced vaccine reluctance comes from those who have little regard for Biden’s public health advice. On the one hand, Biden as president is responsible for persuading Americans to get vaccinated; on the other hand, those people who are very disproportionately accounting for coronavirus deaths right now — the unvaccinated — are in large number those who won’t listen to him.

As I said, hate Trump all you like.  That changes nothing about the run up to Biden assuming the mantle, and changes nothing about the behavior of the people in the democrat party who encouraged activities that spread the virus.  It changes nothing about the seeds of distrust sewn by Kamala Harris and others like her.   The manifesto you shared is all well and good, but the reality behind all the words is Trump started from zero, overcame overwhelming obstacles and a hostile adversary in the dem party, and managed the relationship between public/private industry to deliver vaccine regimens that Biden and company booted quite badly given the death count on his watch. 

 

The facts are simple--less democrat manipulation, less death and virus spread. 

 

As for me being foxy, guilty.  Sometimes when I go out, I try and ugly myself down a bit in an effort to help other, more traditionally homely people feel better about themselves.  I'm not always successful, and I carry that damn burden every day of my handsome life.

Edited August 25, 2022 by leh-nerd skin-erd