Goodell Admits NFL Was Wrong Not to Listen

[thebandit27]

26 minutes ago, Logic said:

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

My position is that anyone who has not directly acted (be it through donation or other peaceful action), who has sat in silence as these things happened over the years and done nothing to help put an end to them, is, through their non-participation, complicit. I will simply leave it at that.

Do you believe that kneeling quietly to bring attention to racist police brutality is disrespectful?

Well that, to me, is a decidedly different statement than to default to “everyone”, and far more defensible 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

Fair enough.

 

Count me among those who don’t find quietly taking a knee during the anthem to be disrespectful. Taking a knee is, in my view, a gesture of reverence, not disrespect.

 

Here is a link to a letter of support to Kaep from American military personnel. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/an-open-letter-from-american-military-veterans-in-support-of-colin-kaepernick/amp/

 

A Washington Post poll found that 53% of Americans find it disrespectful. Pretty close to a 50-50 split.

 

Im curious what it is about the gesture of kneeling that people find disrespectful, personally. It has historically been a reverent, respectful gesture.

I’m sure some folks saw it as taking away from what they perceived is the purpose of the anthem before games. A dedication to those who fought and died for our country, or a thankfulness to live in a country where we could have something as peaceful and unifying as a sports match. 

 

Really, it’s an individual interpretation. 

 

It’s not just the act of kneeling, because an NFL player kneeling in prayer or somber respect during the anthem would not have elicited the same response. It’s the kneeling in protest.

[muppy]

22 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

I’m not sure about momentous.  The NFL is so far behind the NBA, this coming from someone who hasn’t watched a full NBA game in years and years, that it’s not even funny.

 

I’m all for improvements, don’t get me wrong. I’m just not sure that Goodell or owners should be getting getting credit for something they are doing so late.

 

Also, proof is in the puddin Roger. It’s your move.

Im curious as to why you would use the accused killer cop from Minneapolis pic as your avatar? Sincere inquiry.

21 hours ago, Process said:

Players were smart to include Mahomes in their video. If he continues to speak out players are going to get the green light to do whatever the heck they want.

 

NFL could care less about guys like Kap, Stills and the Bennett brothers.

regarding the names of players whom participated in that video I can't help it ...when I saw Jarvis Landry was a member of the group my respect for it was lessened by association...totally wrong and I corrected myself but He's the last person I want telling me about morality and ethics just sayin'...

[FireChans]

21 hours ago, Process said:

Players were smart to include Mahomes in their video. If he continues to speak out players are going to get the green light to do whatever the heck they want.

 

NFL could care less about guys like Kap, Stills and the Bennett brothers.

Probably good for all parties to ignore folks who lie about police brutality.

[HamSandwhich]

I managed to step away from the news, stop listening to politics, and found I’d become very productive. I actually told my wife, I’m shutting it all out except for the Bills message boards. She used to hate that I always went on these boards but I allowed politics to affect me so greatly, she was 100%, enthusiastically behind my only talking Bills. 
 

Sadly, I’ll have to step away from these message boards now too. Why does everything have to end up political? 

[SDS]

1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said:

I managed to step away from the news, stop listening to politics, and found I’d become very productive. I actually told my wife, I’m shutting it all out except for the Bills message boards. She used to hate that I always went on these boards but I allowed politics to affect me so greatly, she was 100%, enthusiastically behind my only talking Bills. 
 

Sadly, I’ll have to step away from these message boards now too. Why does everything have to end up political? 

You don’t have to visit this topic. 

[HamSandwhich]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

You don’t have to visit this topic. 

Shouldn’t be here

[Happy]

43 minutes ago, SDS said:

Comfort is what got us here today. If you are uncomfortable, then maybe ask yourself why. 

 

Pro sports events are not the place to get uncomfortable.  If the experience gets unpleasant, people will stop attending games like they did a few years ago when Kaepernick started the kneeling trend.  The owners felt the pinch and the kneeling went away, for the most part. Nothing good will come of Sunday afternoon protests. 

[HamSandwhich]

There is, after all, a PPP section of which I avoid for the reasons listed above.

[thunderingsquid]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Wise words.  My opinions have changed greatly on a number of issue since I was a teenager in the 70's.

Yeah.  Driving through LA right after the riots in 92 did it for me.  My dad grew up in Compton.

[SDS]

9 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Shouldn’t be here

You can make the rules whenever you get the $200/month sever bill and send the check. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

You can make the rules whenever you get the $200/month sever bill and send the check. 

Talk that ***** King!

[HamSandwhich]

Just now, SDS said:

You can make the rules whenever you get the $200/month sever bill and send the check. 

No where am I telling you that you have to do it, it was a suggestion. In the end, traffic will be what determines content. The only thing I can do iS vote with my non-presence. I would never presume to tell a private business what to do. I’m a big proponent of free market and private ownership. 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

How would you like me to answer that? Composition of votes? Party registration? One example would be the presidential election in 2016. Trump received an astounding 62% of the white male vote (64% of which had a high school education or less). 
 

https://www.people-press.org/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

 

Demographics of conservative talk radio (where white men listen to other white men discuss what is wrong with everyone else not like them) is overwhelmingly middle-age white men. 
 

Anything else?

I don’t think it is some secret that Universities across this country are breeding grounds for tomorrow’s Liberals,  so that examination shouldn’t be shocking to anyone.

 

The interesting stat I take out of that is the more experiences one has in life the more likely they were to vote for Donald Trump.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Beast

[SDS]

Just now, HamSandwhich said:

No where am I telling you that you have to do it, it was a suggestion. In the end, traffic will be what determines content. The only thing I can do iS vote with my non-presence. I would never presume to tell a private business what to do. I’m a big proponent of free market and private ownership. 

It is here because it is a topic where sports and politics intersect and it is of interest to the general football community. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

No where am I telling you that you have to do it, it was a suggestion. In the end, traffic will be what determines content. The only thing I can do iS vote with my non-presence. I would never presume to tell a private business what to do. I’m a big proponent of free market and private ownership. 

I'm going to miss you terribly

[Cripple Creek]

43 minutes ago, Margarita said:

Im curious as to why you would use the accused killer cop from Minneapolis pic as your avatar? Sincere inquiry.

 

It is important to remember.

[HamSandwhich]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

It is here because it is a topic where sports and politics intersect and it is of interest to the general football community. 

Bills? 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm going to miss you terribly

Hey man, this isn’t just some random poster, this is HamSandwhich. A person who has had thousand of TBDers hang on his every word. His loss will be felt immensely. 

[muppy]

7 hours ago, thunderingsquid said:

Too little too late.  

 

And I will never forget the comments on here when the Kaep to Buffalo rumors started to swirl, how a lot of us said "hell no, he disrespected the flag and troops!"

 

There were a lot of other places he had better chances of landing but the hate on here was real.

 

It wasn't everybody on here but the hate was wrong then and wrong now.

 

Never ever forget that it was US who were wrong not to listen FIRST!

May I ask  what you think is too little too late..the NFL response or our collective human previous response to Kaepernick or failure to recognize racism in America...likely all 3 as I reread your posting. I think looking back a lot of people lacked appreciation and understanding of how black people have experienced racism and police injustice and brutality  in our country...Im very sorry it took seeing a man murdered in senseless fashion in Minneapolis for a collective US to wake up smell the coffee and Get It....if George Floyds death and the subsequent riots are to have a positive  effect in America in retrospect it is going to involve a lot more Listening,  a lot  more inner reflection and as a result  change in our view on these issues and the changes necessary  to halt injustice and bring about a more just America for everyone.  Light banishes darkness and the light is now ON and I refuse to be hopeless and fatalistic that change isnt possible it CAN and it Must.

[Cripple Creek]

19 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Shouldn’t be here

Says who?

 

We shouldn't have an intelligent adult discussion about something that is ripping apart the country?

 

Don't click.  It's a freedom of choice.  You do support freedom to choose?

[muppy]

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

It is important to remember.

cool thanks man I knew there would be a good reason. Peace.

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Bills? 

I am not going to keep doing this with you. Quite frankly, at this point you’re becoming an argumentative prick. This community does not have a separate NFL forum. We talk about the Bills and other topics related to the NFL. Drew Brees is an NFL quarterback. How ***** hard is this? 

[Sig1Hunter]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

That’s what this is about. It isn’t just about Kaepernick or BLM or your brotherhood at this point.

 

Based totally on anecdotes? I don’t think the witnessed and video recorded murder of a citizen by a law enforcement officer who saw fit to kneel on the neck of his victim for nearly nine minutes, in spite of the victim’s repeated pleas to breathe, qualifies as anecdotal. Makes one wonder what happens at the hands of unfit enforcement officers when cameras aren’t around. If you can’t see that as a fair question, then I submit your own bias clouds your judgment. 
 

Then again it’s just easier to say we are all lemmings who need to have these atrocities explained to us. 

Yes, George Floyd was a horrible situation. 
 

Where is the evidence that it was racially based? Got any?
 

Maybe it was an example of a criminal cop? You know what? They exist! They aren’t the boogeyman. The boogeyman is the BS narrative that there is systematic racism in police. That’s what you lemmings are marching on. Weird that cops are killed at a MUCH higher rate than unarmed blacks are killed by police. Weird that black men comprise 6% of the population but comprise over 40% of the perpetrators of violent crime. Where was the marching when a friend of mine was murdered by a black suspect? He stopped out to check on a disabled motorist, and was shot and killed as he got out of his car. Cops are systematically hunting and killing black people? Garbage. It just isn’t true. 

 

Again, if you want to have a discussion about those things that have contributed to the environment where black suspects are committing violent crimes at exponentially higher rates than all other races, let’s do it. Let’s talk about the legislators and leaders in those black communities that have allowed that to happen under their watch for DECADES. I doubt you will want to have that discussion, though. It’s so much easier to scapegoat the police. That’s what the political leaders are doing, too. Keep following. It’s a great strategy... until you reach the precipice of that cliff.

[Capco]

13 minutes ago, SDS said:

You can make the rules whenever you get the $200/month sever bill and send the check. 

 

Thank you (and anyone who donates) for providing us with this forum.  

[HamSandwhich]

Just now, SDS said:

I am not going to keep doing this with you. Quite frankly, at this point you’re becoming an argumentative prick. This community does not have a separate NFL forum. We talk about the Bills and other topics related to the NFL. Drew Brees is an NFL quarterback. How ***** hard is this? 

It’s too bad that we’re getting political is all I’m saying. Very sad. I’ll stop posting for the time being until the dust settles, people realize how ridiculous this all is, and everything goes back to talking Bills. That is unless you choose to boot me completely, if which is your choice. I won’t be part of this ridiculous view that systemic racism exists. George Floyd, terrible. Individual racist acts, terrible. That’s what they are, bad people doing bad things. Let’s get back to talking Bills soon. 

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Says who?

 

We shouldn't have an intelligent adult discussion about something that is ripping apart the country?

 

Don't click.  It's a freedom of choice.  You do support freedom to choose?

Thanks, read my other posts. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Yes, George Floyd was a horrible situation. 
 

Where is the evidence that it was racially based? Got any?
 

Maybe it was an example of a criminal cop? You know what? They exist! They aren’t the boogeyman. The boogeyman is the BS narrative that there is systematic racism in police. That’s what you lemmings are marching on. Weird that cops are killed at a MUCH higher rate than unarmed blacks are killed by police. Weird that black men comprise 6% of the population but comprise over 40% of the perpetrators of violent crime. Where was the marching when a friend of mine was murdered by a black suspect? He stopped out to check on a disabled motorist, and was shot and killed as he got out of his car. Cops are systematically hunting and killing black people? Garbage. It just isn’t true. 

 

Again, if you want to have a discussion about those things that have contributed to the environment where black suspects are committing violent crimes at exponentially higher rates than all other races, let’s do it. Let’s talk about the legislators and leaders in those black communities that have allowed that to happen under their watch for DECADES. I doubt you will want to have that discussion, though. It’s so much easier to scapegoat the police. That’s what the political leaders are doing, too. Keep following. It’s a great strategy... until you reach the precipice of that cliff.

If you really think it's weird that cops are killed at a higher rate than unarmed blacks are killed by police might I suggest a course in remedial statistics.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said:

It’s too bad that we’re getting political is all I’m saying. Very sad. I’ll stop posting for the time being until the dust settles, people realize how ridiculous this all is, and everything goes back to talking Bills. That is unless you choose to boot me completely, if which is your choice. I won’t be part of this ridiculous view that systemic racism exists. George Floyd, terrible. Individual racist acts, terrible. That’s what they are, bad people doing bad things. Let’s get back to talking Bills soon. 

Thank you for your parting ignorant thought. It was the cherry on top of a scrumptious dessert. 

[thunderingsquid]

8 minutes ago, Margarita said:

May I ask  what you think is too little too late..the NFL response or our collective human previous response to Kaepernick or failure to recognize racism in America...likely all 3 as I reread your posting. I think looking back a lot of people lacked appreciation and understanding of how black people have experienced racism and police injustice and brutality  in our country...Im very sorry it took seeing a man murdered in senseless fashion in Minneapolis for a collective US to wake up smell the coffee and Get It....if George Floyds death and the subsequent riots are to have a positive  effect in America in retrospect it is going to involve a lot more Listening,  a lot  more inner reflection and as a result  change in our view on these issues and the changes necessary  to halt injustice and bring about a more just America for everyone.  Light banishes darkness and the light is now ON and I refuse to be hopeless and fatalistic that change isnt possible it CAN and it Must.

Yes all three.  I like your post.

[Capco]

3 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

I won’t be part of this ridiculous view that systemic racism exists.

 

Lol.  You need to pull your head out of your HamSandwich.  

[thunderingsquid]

 

[Sig1Hunter]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

If you really think it's weird that cops are killed at a higher rate than unarmed blacks are killed by police might I suggest a course in remedial statistics.

Educate me.

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If you really think it's weird that cops are killed at a higher rate than unarmed blacks are killed by police might I suggest a course in remedial statistics.

i’m guessing he is against COVID-19 testing because the infected numbers will go up. 

[Blank Stare]

For anyone still on the fence about the pervasiveness of racial inequality in this country, I encourage you to do a little research on Fred Hampton, the Black Panthers, and a little gem called COINTELPRO under J. Edgar Hoover. It’s not the first example in US History, but explains a lot about how we got to where we are today psychologically. For anyone looking for the cliff notes version:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/clairewillett/status/1266894029498675200

 

They sure as hell don’t teach you that in the history books. At least not where I’m from. We’ve been conditioned for a long time to react the way we do to these situations. It’s time we wake up, acknowledge it, educate ourselves, and become part of the solution. 

[Sig1Hunter]

5 minutes ago, SDS said:

i’m guessing he is against COVID-19 testing because the infected numbers will go up. 

Kudos on the non-sequitur.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Educate me.

Those two rates are meaningless as you've set them up. They don't refer to anything that I'd want to use to draw a conclusion.

 

 

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Kudos on the non-sequitur.

kudos on missing the sarcasm directed toward your poor math skills.

[Sig1Hunter]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Those two rates are meaningless as you've set them up. They don't refer to anything that I'd want to use to draw a conclusion.

 

 

As I’ve set them up? They are objective statistics. I just said them. They are in black and white. 
 

Not surprised you aren’t willing to discuss them. 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Do you believe honoring individual military members at pro sports games is disrespectful?

I don’t, I also know as a former Marine that taking a knee during the National anthem is a constitutional right that I served to protect. Why is it that some Americans so viscerally dislike it when other Americans exercise their constitutional rights?  Doing so by using a straw man argument about our military service members to feebly attempt to make a mistaken point, and then repeatedly doubling down on that very mistaken point?  Again why would an American citizen want to prevent another American citizen from exercising their constitutional rights?  Such action is totally UN-AMERICAN. 
 

 

[Sig1Hunter]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

kudos on missing the sarcasm directed toward your poor math skills.

Oh no, I got that. It was just totally irrelevant to the black and white (no pun intended) statistics that a cop is more likely to die at the hands of a black suspect, than an unarmed black suspect is to die at the hands of a cop. I’m talking rate. I’m not saying merely more. That’s where Mr Remedial Math got my statement wrong. Nine unarmed black men died last year. Nine. Seven of those involved suspects actively fighting the officer, or using vehicles as weapons. Keep marching and destroying the country over a made up narrative.