Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You still have lord knows who stocking the shelves, then they touch it again to scan it and bag it. Everything is touched multiple times, and recently, before you get it home.

 

I take wipes with me for both hands in coat pockets. I take it home, then wipe everything down the best I can before storing it, washing my hands before and after. And I’ll still get it eventually, as most of us will. Hopefully not any time soon. 

 

Pro tip: put time on your side.  If it's perishable, you must store it soon, certainly wipe before storing.  But canned goods and dry goods, try to shop before you're absolutely out and just let them sit in the corner for several days before you use them or put them away. 

2nd pro tip: if you have something like Apple Pay on your phone, enable it and put your favorite credit card(s) in it so you don't have to hand someone the card or swipe it through the machine.  Treat all cash as though it's covered in dog poop; avoid it, and if you must accept it accept it with a bag over your hand.

Same thing with mail: use a plastic bag over your hand to transfer mail to a paper bag.  Anything not requiring urgent attention, just let it sit 24 hrs.  Next day, deal with it, transfer in the new mail, and wash.

5 minutes ago, Figster said:

We can learn, but clearly everyone does not reach the same conclusions.  

 

China is telling the US right now we are fighting the virus all wrong. We the people are the front lines of this invisible war and without proper protection for everyone our doctors, nurses, supplies and hospitals will never be able to keep up with the spread. 

 

Everyone needs the masks...

 

Figster - in China, the masks everyone wears are ordinary paper medical masks.  I promise you!  Sometimes cloth masks.  Oh, yeah, in places where they're available, they all wear gloves, too (Taiwan, S. Korea etc.)

Not N95 respirators.  

I personally agree everyone should be masked, but leave the respirators for the doctors and nurses or they won't just not be able to keep up, they'll be SICK or DEAD when you need them. 

[SDS]

Tell me if I’m wrong if I think that food distribution sites, which affect every single person in America, are probably the most important part of this pandemic response. 
 

I guess the question is, what is the safest way to distribute food and medicine to every single person in this country?

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A bunch of places do "order online, pick up in store" already - Walmart and Target, for example.  

There's also Shipt and Instacart, but in some places they're just not available right now (just tried to get one for my kid)

 

Unfortunately from the same retail worker friend, a lot of workers are really frustrated by customers who are plainly out shopping with the kids to "get out of the house".  Target and Walmart are still open because they sell items considered essential, like groceries and cleaning supplies and baby stuff.  But people are out browsing through the toys and bedding and housewares aisles.
 

 

Can you say more?  What are the workers' concerns?

 

Sorry, I just caught a brief mention in part of the news. Most of it was about Amazon/WF workers. I can imagine the same assumptions you can, including they’d like a better deal. But they are taking the same risks I am by going to the store.....they just do it for hours on end. I get in and out half as often as I used to. I get that it’s NOT what it used to be.

 

I was impressed when they mentioned Kroger would start installing plexiglass to protect cashiers and customers. I hope everybody does this asap. 

 

A lot of little things we never thought of before. The world keeps changing, and we keep learning. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, SDS said:

Tell me if I’m wrong if I think that food distribution sites, which affect every single person in America, are probably the most important part of this pandemic response. 
I guess the question is, what is the safest way to distribute food and medicine to every single person in this country?

 

I don't know about "most important".  I would put protecting the health care system and workers and first responders as most important, and right now we are doing a sucky job.  For example, nurses and doctors are working shifts with sketchy PPE then coming home to families.  Not only will they become ill, but they each represent an infection chain that will propagate.  They should have quarters available to them, as well as on-site or near-site showers and changing facilities so they don't go home in potentially contaminated clothes and shoes.

 

But you're not wrong that assuring a supply of food and medicine is right up there on the "important" list.

 

In Wuhan, they initially allowed people to go out and purchase food but eventually had soldiers deliver it.   You got what they delivered.  And sick people had to leave their families and quarantine in these sort of semi-hospitals, even if they weren't that ill.

[SDS]

My point is 330 Americans depend on food and a much smaller amount will depend on healthcare. Everything starts with water, then food then other things. It’s just my opinion, but the reaction to this pandemic is nothing until it touches the food supply. When that happens all hell will break loose. All hell.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know about "most important".  I would put protecting the health care system and workers and first responders as most important, and right now we are doing a sucky job.  For example, nurses and doctors are working shifts with sketchy PPE then coming home to families.  Not only will they become ill, but they each represent an infection chain that will propegate.

 

But you're not wrong that it's up there - food and medicine.

 

In Wuhan, they initially allowed people to go out and purchase food but eventually had soldiers deliver it.   You got what they delivered.  And sick people had to leave their families and quarantine in these sort of semi-hospitals, even if they weren't that ill.

 

A guy on my college hoops board is reporting 18% of confirmed cases are health care workers. What a MESS! Of course, they probably get tested much more easily.

 

My wife has a guy on her team in Boston VERY ill, trying to get tested since Saturday, but he can’t get in. He’s a serious Bills fan! Get him the test! Seriously, his only option is to go to the ER and certainly get exposed! It’s a lose/lose. He’s the guy who kept going to the office to use his big monitors, until my wife shipped them to his house.....apparently too late. She didn’t know. 

4 minutes ago, SDS said:

My point is 330 Americans depend on food and a much smaller amount will depend on healthcare. Everything starts with water, then food then other things. It’s just my opinion, but the reaction to this pandemic is nothing until it touches the food supply. When that happens all hell will break loose. All hell.

 

I bet the National Guard never thought they were signing up for cashier duty. I mean, really....what happens? I’m a daily shopper, and I know most of the people at our GIANT Publix grocery by name. What I can’t know is who was NOT there, and why.   

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

A guy on my college hoops board is reporting 18% of confirmed cases are health care workers. What a MESS! Of course, they probably get tested much more easily.

 

My wife has a guy on her team in Boston VERY ill, trying to get tested since Saturday, but he can’t get in. He’s a serious Bills fan! Get him the test! Seriously, his only option is to go to the ER and certainly get exposed! It’s a lose/lose. He’s the guy who kept going to the office to use his big monitors, until my wife shipped them to his house.....apparently too late. She didn’t know. 

 

I bet the National Guard never thought they were signing up for cashier duty. I mean, really....what happens? I’m a daily shopper, and I know most of the people at our GIANT Publix grocery by name. What I can’t know is who was NOT there, and why.   

 Well I hope it’s not daily anymore.

[Augie]

9 minutes ago, SDS said:

 Well I hope it’s not daily anymore.

 

Certainly NOT! I do go a couple times a week for milk and bananas, veggies, etc. I also shop for my mother as at 92 I want to keep her off the retirement bus and out of the stores. What was a daily routine has become a semi-frightening adventure with wipes in both pockets. 

 

 

.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie

[SDS]

26 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Certainly NOT! I do go a couple times a week for milk and bananas, veggies, etc. I also shop for my mother as at 92 I want to keep her off the retirement bus and out of the stores. What was a daily routine has become a semi-frightening adventure with wipes in both pockets. 

 

 

.

I have no idea what should be acceptable. I have reduced it to once per week at minimum. Two weeks would be a goal. If you go longer than that then you end up buying more than stores can handle in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong. Multiple times per week seems like quite a bit, but that’s an impression.

[May Day 10]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

[Augie]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

I have no idea what should be acceptable. I have reduced it to once per week at minimum. Two weeks would be a goal. If you go longer than that then you end up buying more than stores can handle in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong. Multiple times per week seems like quite a bit, but that’s an impression.

 

If you go from 6+ times a week to only two times a week it seems like a huge cutback. Today was actually shocking as it was completely deserted. I take a wipe for each hand, and re-wipe the pre-cleaned cart. I wipe stuff when I buy it, then again when I get home. 

 

What has shocked me the most (other than, you know...people dying!) is the labels on processed food! One can of soup can be 75% of your daily sodium! I’m not sure what will kill me first! I got a bunch of frozen stuff when that was all that was left a couple weeks ago. I’ve now read the labels, and I’d feel bad taking this processed stuff to a food bank! I care about those people too much! 

 

Hard to eat fresh and avoid the stores. It’s an interesting balancing act. 

 

.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html

 

 

Eh, that would be nice, but two caveats:

1) S. Korea, which has done about the most testing per population of any country and which is known to be counting asymptomatic cases, still has a death rate of 1.7% - including the asymptomatic cases.  They also still have 4,216 active cases, some of which are seriously/critically ill

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

2) That nice low death rate ONLY applies if the cases at any one time are kept low enough that the hospital system is not overwhelmed.  If the hospital system is overwhelmed, the death rate soars.  You'd have to find a helluvalotta asymptomatic cases to bring Italy's 11.4% death rate anything that low.

[Figster]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Pro tip: put time on your side.  If it's perishable, you must store it soon, certainly wipe before storing.  But canned goods and dry goods, try to shop before you're absolutely out and just let them sit in the corner for several days before you use them or put them away. 

2nd pro tip: if you have something like Apple Pay on your phone, enable it and put your favorite credit card(s) in it so you don't have to hand someone the card or swipe it through the machine.  Treat all cash as though it's covered in dog poop; avoid it, and if you must accept it accept it with a bag over your hand.

Same thing with mail: use a plastic bag over your hand to transfer mail to a paper bag.  Anything not requiring urgent attention, just let it sit 24 hrs.  Next day, deal with it, transfer in the new mail, and wash.

 

Figster - in China, the masks everyone wears are ordinary paper medical masks.  I promise you!  Sometimes cloth masks.  Oh, yeah, in places where they're available, they all wear gloves, too (Taiwan, S. Korea etc.)

Not N95 respirators.  

I personally agree everyone should be masked, but leave the respirators for the doctors and nurses or they won't just not be able to keep up, they'll be SICK or DEAD when you need them. 

 

 

Myself personally, mass producing the N95 mask and distributing it equally among the health care workers, essential business workers and the general public is the most prudent course of action in my humble opinion.

 

My point is Happless you have to cut the problem off at its source or it will continue to grow. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

Myself personally, mass producing the N95 mask and distributing it equally among the health care workers, essential business workers and the general public is the most prudent course of action in my humble opinion.

 

My point is Happless you have to cut the problem off at its source or it will continue to grow. 

 

You can cut the problem off at the source by STFH, social distancing, and measures like hand washing and wearing any old masks for the general public - like they did in China, Taiwan, Singapore, S. Korea, and Japan.  If you think those countries were mass distributing N95 respirators, Think Again.  They weren't.

 

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on N95 respirator masks.  If there's any shortage, HCW get them.  Next up, first responders and essential workers like pharmacy and grocery. 

 

We're asking HCW and first responders to put their lives and health and their family's lives and health on the line, you want to tell me Johnny Public deserves an equal shot at protection he doesn't know how to use properly - I don't think that's a moral stance.  If I'm asking someone to risk his or her life for all of us, they deserve more.  IN my opinion.

 

Keep in mind you've been arguing that people shouldn't glove because they can't figure out how to take them off properly to avoid contamination.  Now you're arguing people can use a respirator mask that requires a sealed fit to function properly?  I do see a little inconsistancy here.

 

I'm not gonna keep going on this though.  We'll just disagree.

 

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, SDS said:

I have no idea what should be acceptable. I have reduced it to once per week at minimum. Two weeks would be a goal. If you go longer than that then you end up buying more than stores can handle in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong. Multiple times per week seems like quite a bit, but that’s an impression.

 

In “normal times” I would decide what’s for dinner daily. I might know I want shrimp scampi tonight, but no idea about tomorrow. I’m ALWAYS in the express line. I shop often but buy little. 

[Figster]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You can cut the problem off at the source by STFH and social distancing. 

 

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on N95 respirator masks.  If there's any shortage, HCW get them.  Next up, first responders and essential workers like pharmacy and grocery.

 

I understand,

 

Myself personally, I don't put much faith in a paper mask.

 

Again, I appreciate the good discussion.

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Figster

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

In “normal times” I would decide what’s for dinner daily. I might know I want shrimp scampi tonight, but no idea about tomorrow. I’m ALWAYS in the express line. I shop often but buy little. 

 

Yeah, my mom was like that in younger healthier years.  Shopping was her almost-daily entertainment, the meat and poultry and produce workers and a lot of the checkers at her nearest supermarket all knew her by name. 

It was super hard for me to get her to give me a 1x/week grocery list when she was waiting for/recovering from surgery, and this was with getting most of her breakfasts and dinners provided for her.  And she'd inevitably call before I got home to tell me what she'd forgotten.

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yeah, my mom was like that in younger healthier years.  Shopping was her almost-daily entertainment, the meat and poultry and produce workers and a lot of the checkers at her nearest supermarket all knew her by name. 

It was super hard for me to get her to give me a 1x/week grocery list when she was waiting for/recovering from surgery, and this was with getting most of her breakfasts and dinners provided for her.  And she'd inevitably call before I got home to tell me what she'd forgotten.

Your bad! You got her the phone!   

 

As I said elsewhere, we don’t HAVE TO do these things, we GET TO DO these things. Important life lesson. I’ll miss the day when I no longer have that job. My wife lost her mom a couple years ago, and she would LOVE the chance to do something for her! 

 

 

. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie

[transplantbillsfan]

Is everyone's "stay at home" order the same?

 

For example: Living in Hawai'i we have one in place through at least April 30th (I think almost certainly to be extended), but for "essential activities."

 

So, do "essential activities" vary by state? My wife and I went for 2 separate hour long walks over the weekend, one to the local Foodland to pick up a few things. I went surfing this morning because surfing is allowed as long as you maintain "social distancing" and then went to Costco because the line wasn't out the door today.

 

These things are allowed and are not against state mandates.

 

Of course, in Foodland and Costco everyone was staying away from each other--will there be some long term effects societally because of this "social distancing" we're required to do?

 

So... are these the types of things allowed where all the other "shelter in place" orders are? Are they more strict? Less strict? Should the orders here be more strict? Less strict?

 

Genuinely curious because I think this country should probably just have an across-the-board order for every citizen at this point.

[BillsFan4]

 

This all still feels like a bad dream or something.

[Figster]

8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Is everyone's "stay at home" order the same?

 

For example: Living in Hawai'i we have one in place through at least April 30th (I think almost certainly to be extended), but for "essential activities."

 

So, do "essential activities" vary by state? My wife and I went for 2 separate hour long walks over the weekend, one to the local Foodland to pick up a few things. I went surfing this morning because surfing is allowed as long as you maintain "social distancing" and then went to Costco because the line wasn't out the door today.

 

These things are allowed and are not against state mandates.

 

Of course, in Foodland and Costco everyone was staying away from each other--will there be some long term effects societally because of this "social distancing" we're required to do?

 

So... are these the types of things allowed where all the other "shelter in place" orders are? Are they more strict? Less strict? Should the orders here be more strict? Less strict?

 

Genuinely curious because I think this country should probably just have an across-the-board order for every citizen at this point.

You lucky dog

[Jrb1979]

18 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Is everyone's "stay at home" order the same?

 

For example: Living in Hawai'i we have one in place through at least April 30th (I think almost certainly to be extended), but for "essential activities."

 

So, do "essential activities" vary by state? My wife and I went for 2 separate hour long walks over the weekend, one to the local Foodland to pick up a few things. I went surfing this morning because surfing is allowed as long as you maintain "social distancing" and then went to Costco because the line wasn't out the door today.

 

These things are allowed and are not against state mandates.

 

Of course, in Foodland and Costco everyone was staying away from each other--will there be some long term effects societally because of this "social distancing" we're required to do?

 

So... are these the types of things allowed where all the other "shelter in place" orders are? Are they more strict? Less strict? Should the orders here be more strict? Less strict?

 

Genuinely curious because I think this country should probably just have an across-the-board order for every citizen at this point.

Here in Canada every province is pretty much on the same page. They have been telling people to stay home unless you need to go out. The only reason you should have to go out is for groceries and work. They have been closing all parks and public areas trying to get people to stay home. While most are listening, a lot were still going to the beach and parks for walks. 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

Here in Canada every province is pretty much on the same page. They have been telling people to stay home unless you need to go out. The only reason you should have to go out is for groceries and work. They have been closing all parks and public areas trying to get people to stay home. While most are listening, a lot were still going to the beach and parks for walks. 

 

So they told you no walks? No outdoor exercise?

 

Honestly, I am so much safer in the water surfing than I am in ANY grocery store. I feel like anyone on an outdoor walk is, too.

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

So they told you no walks? No outdoor exercise?

 

Honestly, I am so much safer in the water surfing than I am in ANY grocery store. I feel like anyone on an outdoor walk is, too.

 

Exercise outdoors allowed. Also walking dogs. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Sundancer

[Sundancer]

10 hours ago, SDS said:

Been thinking about supply chains a lot. No one is supposed to panic because grocery stores are open, but clearly there’s going to be a time in certain places where the grocery store workers say it’s not worth it. I am not sure how we avoid a panic as it gets worse. 

 

With as many people out of work as there are, grocery worker jobs should be fine. I don't see the food part of our supply chain being a problem, though I think we are likely to keep seeing shortages of certain items, especially those that come from other countries and/or are more dependent on seasonal migrant labor (someone posted a Mother Jones article about this last point somewhere here).  

 

My bigger concern for society is the long term effect on the economy. That will last unless we get a nationally coordinated plan on place to test and track asap.  The admin refuses to nationally institute a plan or any tracking talk. Not turning this to politics specifically but more looking to solutions, and that still seems the only practical long term path out. (MA and FL, which closed very late are seeing spikes now they could have avoided absent stubborn governors).

Edited March 31, 2020 by Sundancer

[ALF]

8 hours ago, SDS said:

Been thinking about supply chains a lot. No one is supposed to panic because grocery stores are open, but clearly there’s going to be a time in certain places where the grocery store workers say it’s not worth it. I am not sure how we avoid a panic as it gets worse. 

 

In a worse case scenario they could close grocery stores to customers and go to instacart  only to deliver prepaid and leave by customer door. Call customer just as it arrives.  They would have to raise the pay for instacart workers to make it worth it to them.

[Sundancer]

Interesting article today in the NY Times tracking trends in fevers from a company that sells thermometers that upload their data to the web. 

 

Social distancing orders and closures have had a measurable effect on their data nationwide with fever trends declining everywhere. This is not just covid but every other fever. It's a great data point, not that we need more, about the effectiveness of distancing. But also a great data point about the need for more data and tracking. This kind of data would be a great predictor of regional outbreak. 

 

The company maps and trends are here. 

 

Edit: Ha. Hapless beat me to it while I slept. Well it can be discussed here. 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Sundancer

[Sundancer]

Continued daily data on US, Italy, and Spain (for now). Leveling in Italy continues to look like a real trend (being level on daily deaths is *not* great...but it's at least better). 

 

US and Spain haven't been level yet for long enough to indicate a real trend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, ALF said:

 

In a worse case scenario they could close grocery stores to customers and go to instacart  only to deliver prepaid and leave by customer door. Call customer just as it arrives.  They would have to raise the pay for instacart workers to make it worth it to them.

 

The problem with Instacart is that you have to have internet access (cellular internet included) and a computer or smartphone to use it.

A lot of elders, such as my mom, do not have this or do not know how to use it if the do.  (My mom has internet to support her Caption Call phone for hearing impaired, and we gave her a smartphone - she struggles to read and send texts or make phone calls, much less use an app)

 

That would also pretty much give Instacart a monopoly.  I do understand your point about order online/by phone pick up in store, but I'd like to see something like temperature checks at door/mask and glove use for employees and customers tried first.

 

[SDS]

5 hours ago, ALF said:

 

In a worse case scenario they could close grocery stores to customers and go to instacart  only to deliver prepaid and leave by customer door. Call customer just as it arrives.  They would have to raise the pay for instacart workers to make it worth it to them.

additionally, it’s not apparent how scalable this is.
 

A careless calculation says if you take the number of US households, and assume every household  gets their food delivered, assume they get it once per week, assuming grocery store is open 16 hours a day, assume one worker can check out 16 people per day… You would need 1 million workers working 8 hours a day seven days a week.

 

Edit: I made a mistake

[Hapless Bills Fan]

https://xkcd.com/2287/

[Foxx]

15 hours ago, SDS said:

Been thinking about supply chains a lot. No one is supposed to panic because grocery stores are open, but clearly there’s going to be a time in certain places where the grocery store workers say it’s not worth it. I am not sure how we avoid a panic as it gets worse. 

 

14 hours ago, SDS said:

My point is 330 Americans depend on food and a much smaller amount will depend on healthcare. Everything starts with water, then food then other things. It’s just my opinion, but the reaction to this pandemic is nothing until it touches the food supply. When that happens all hell will break loose. All hell.

 

just my two satoshi's here...

 

i have been on this since the pandemic was only thought to be an epidemic. most all aspects of our society exists on the just in time system. whereas, the supply system closely coincides with consumption of goods and services. if you change one component in the equation, you begin to stress other factors. we already have seen stresses on that JIT system showing up as empty shelves in the grocery stores.

 

shutting down society to have 'nonessential' people 'stay at home' is only putting more stress on this JIT system. from the fields to the dinner table, from the oceans to the markets, from the warehouses to the truckers, there are so many facets of the perishable network that are interconnected, pulling too many Jinga blocks out from the tower will collapse it. what is deemed nonessential today is tomorrow's critical need. we will not survive a shut down that goes into June. hell, i don't know we will survive one that goes into May.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Foxx

[Mr Info]

16 minutes ago, SDS said:

additionally, it’s not apparent how scalable this is.

This is my observation over the last few days at grocery stores & quick stops.

imo, Wawa has their act together. They were the first that I noticed to place plexiglass in front of their cashiers. They used to have donuts, etc. in their displays all together but now each one is wrapped. The one closest to me closes 2-3 am for a thorough cleaning. In my observation their workers appear to be responsibly following good safety procedures.

i do not observe the same situation yet in grocery stores. I am fine to pick up my essentials at Wawa for a period of time if grocery stores shut because of poor policies for employee safety.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Mr Info

[Jrb1979]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

So they told you no walks? No outdoor exercise?

 

Honestly, I am so much safer in the water surfing than I am in ANY grocery store. I feel like anyone on an outdoor walk is, too.

You can go for walks and have outdoor exercise but in your neighborhood  The problem was and still is in some spots is too many people were going to the parks. Unless the park is near your house you would have to drive to them. That would mean it's  non-essential travel. 

[Foxx]

credit goes to @B-Man

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

You can go for walks and have outdoor exercise but in your neighborhood  The problem was and still is in some spots is too many people were going to the parks. Unless the park is near your house you would have to drive to them. That would mean it's  non-essential travel. 

 

It's a balancing act, for sure. 

 

Driving isn't banned here and while some counties are locked down, neighboring counties are not.  State and city parks are explicitly open for exercise following the rules of "social distancing".  Playgrounds, dog parks, and playing fields are closed.  Dog park gates are locked, and playgrounds are festooned with yellow "do not cross" tape.  Playing fields.....

 

We are predominantly walking in parks and on paths away from our house for {reasons} right now (nothing against the neighborhood - love the neighborhood).  Usually on our walks, we see maybe 1-2 dozen people.  Most are biking, running or walking as individuals or in family units, often with a dog.   We see parents tossing frisbees or playing t-ball with their kids.  Most people on trails or paths either step aside off the path and wait, or pause while we step aside, to give adequate distance if the path itself doesn't provide it. 

 

But every time we go, we do see 1-2 groups of people that don't seem related - 2 girls of very different hair and skin color kicking a soccer ball around,  a group of 6 (looked like 2 family groups) practicing softball, 2 pregnant women hiking with 2 little girls of very different appearance, a group of 6 boys with 1 adult sliding and splashing in a pool above the Falls (this was in a county that is NOT locked down, but adjacent to one that is, and swimming is prohibited there anyway). 

 

We hope these people live together or are part of an extended family unit in regular contact, and not continued networks of contact between families who live separately (which would dilute the impact of social distancing).  And of course, the degree of contact varies.

It would suck to have to close all the parks to the majority of the users who are clearly respecting social distancing for the maybe 5% who are "pushing it"

EDIT: As of today, a handful of popular MO State Parks close to major cities have been closed because people were not respecting social distancing in them.  Only a matter of time for the rest, I guess.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's a balancing act, for sure. 

 

Driving isn't banned here and while some counties are locked down, neighboring counties are not.  State and city parks are explicitly open for exercise following the rules of "social distancing".  Playgrounds, dog parks, and playing fields are closed.  Dog park gates are locked, and playgrounds are festooned with yellow "do not cross" tape.  Playing fields.....

 

We are predominantly walking in parks and on paths away from our house for {reasons} right now (nothing against the neighborhood - love the neighborhood).  Usually on our walks, we see maybe 1-2 dozen people.  Most are biking, running or walking as individuals or in family units, often with a dog.   We see parents tossing frisbees or playing t-ball with their kids.  Most people on trails or paths either step aside off the path and wait, or pause while we step aside, to give adequate distance if the path itself doesn't provide it. 

 

But every time we go, we do see 1-2 groups of people that don't seem related - 2 girls of very different hair and skin color kicking a soccer ball around,  a group of 6 (looked like 2 family groups) practicing softball, 2 pregnant women hiking with 2 little girls of very different appearance, a group of 6 boys with 1 adult sliding and splashing in a pool above the Falls (this was in a county that is NOT locked down, but adjacent to one that is, and swimming is prohibited there anyway). 

 

We hope these people live together or are part of an extended family unit in regular contact, and not continued networks of contact between families who live separately (which would dilute the impact of social distancing).  And of course, the degree of contact varies.

It would suck to have to close all the parks to the majority of the users who are clearly respecting social distancing for the maybe 5% who are "pushing it"

It does suck but Ontario just closed all parks, sports fields and all outdoor recreational facilities. Now they limited gatherings to 5 here so they had to do it. Too many people think this is nothing. 

[John in Jax]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

And I hope to heck you don't disagree with me that N95 masks should be prioritized to health care workers or that they are ineffective unless properly fitted and fit-checked.

Not sure where this idea is coming from that an N95 PAPER/fiber mask can be fit-tested....it can't, because, well, it's made of a paper/fiber material and there's absolutely no way on earth you'd be able to get a "perfect seal", as you would with a full-size, no kidding, rubber respirator mask (will have a chewing tobacco sized "can" on either side of the mask & adjustable straps; the cans are the actual air filters which will filter out 100% of toxic gases). To work properly, the latter MUST be fit-tested by a doctor, and you must have no facial hair in order to get a impenetrable seal. Of course they are MUCH more expensive than the PAPER N95 masks, but they will literally save your life in a toxic gas situation. 

 

Source: Have worked in construction for 20+ years, and have used those white N95 paper/fiber dust masks for 20+ years. The same masks that health care workers are now clamoring for. The same masks that have two non-adjustable elastic bands on them, which go around your head, and pull the mask tight to your face. Of course, depending on how fat your head is, that will determine on how tight the mask is on your face. And again, even if it feels super tight, you won't have a perfect seal.

 

Finally, I'd be willing to bet that if a covid-19 carrier coughed or sneezed directly on your N95 mask, and you kept it on, and kept breathing, you'd probably get the virus. Note: not absolutely sure on the latter; it really depends on how small/big the covid-19 particles are. As a example, the N95 mask will NOT protect you from crystalline silica particles (when concrete, tile, quartz, etc. gets cut and you're right there next to it), because those particles are too small, and they come through the mask.

 

[Mod Edit: fit testing of N95 masks has been A Thing for years.  For HCW, they come in several sizes for that reason.  The test is performed with a sprayer of something that smells in low concentration, or that tastes sweet in low concentration - usually saccharine for the latter or isoamyl acetate (smells like bananas) for the former.  The worker is advised what size of mask they need for a good fit and instructed on how to personally achieve a fit with it]

See here, p 40:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2015-117/pdfs/2015-117.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB2015117

And here, section B2:

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.134AppA ]