My sleeper pick round 1

[WideNine]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Ruiz has jumped him and most scouts boards.it's fairly close but Ruiz will be the first interior linemen off the board I will Bank on it

 

I saw that, but Biadasz played with a torn shoulder, red-shirted as a freshman, and I think has started every game.

 

I like that consistent high level of play and toughness. I will give him a pass on the ranking drop this year.

 

Ruiz is not too shabby either. Not saying he hasn't earned the props.

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, WideNine said:

 

I saw that, but Biadasz played with a torn shoulder, red-shirted as a freshman, and I think has started every game.

 

I like that consistent high level of play and toughness. I will give him a pass on the ranking drop this year.

 

Ruiz is not too shabby either. Not saying he hasn't earned the props.

 

 

 

 

 

They both can be top-flight centers.. I don't think you can discount that Ruiz was the number one center prospect and lived up to the hype at UM... Tough to do

 

He will be the guy they can't replace

 

Biadasz absolutely will be a great center for a long time if he stays healthy

Edited February 27, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Thurman#1]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:24 PM, Buffalo716 said:

You don't draft a RT prospect in round 2 and convert him to guard after 1 year

 

RT is a hard position to play and most peak at 28-30, unless you draft Lane Johnson In the first round

 

Ford will be Ok, we haven't had a good RT here in a long time because we don't let them develop

 

Line play across the league is at an all time low, you need development unless you wanna rely on waiver wire and FA

 

 

I don't think they saw him as purely an RT prospect. They seem to have thought he might (or might not) need to be switched from early on, though clearly they have hoped and are still hoping he will develop his footwork and make the grade at tackle.

 

As for not converting guys after a year, sometimes it works just fine. Off the top of my head, I believe Geoff Schwartz was switched T to G after a year or so, and that's worked out fine. Some guys you do and some guys you don't.

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I don't think they saw him as purely an RT prospect. They seem to have thought he might (or might not) need to be switched from early on, though clearly they have hoped and are still hoping he will develop his footwork and make the grade at tackle.

 

As for not converting guys after a year, sometimes it works just fine. Off the top of my head, I believe Geoff Schwartz was switched T to G after a year or so, and that's worked out fine. Some guys you do and some guys you don't.

I don't doubt he would be a good guard but his big potential is at Tackle. His tape at Oklahoma at guard was pretty good, nothing spectacular.. nothing that would have had him drafted in the top 3 maybe even 4 rounds

 

He really shined at RT and was actually extremely mobile with his impressive size .. you would think he was a Mauler RT at Oklahoma but he was very quick and an extremely good pass blocker with an ability to mirror

 

His Tackle play shot him up draft boards and his size and athleticism are perfect at RT to develop... I wouldn't kill that after 1 season

Edited February 27, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I saw that, but Biadasz played with a torn shoulder, red-shirted as a freshman, and I think has started every game.

 

I like that consistent high level of play and toughness. I will give him a pass on the ranking drop this year.

 

Ruiz is not too shabby either. Not saying he hasn't earned the props.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am with you @WideNine. Biadasz is #1 and Ruiz #2. I have them pretty close and Biadasz does have an injury asterisk but his tape is the best of the interior guys in this class for me. 

[Buffalo716]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am with you @WideNine. Biadasz is #1 and Ruiz #2. I have them pretty close and Biadasz does have an injury asterisk but his tape is the best of the interior guys in this class for me. 

I don't think biadasz tape is any more impressive . They play differently but I think Ruiz is the better athlete , healthier, better balance and better natural bend

 

I just think he translates a bit better

 

Biadasz has great tape but not the most natural bender 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think biadasz tape is any more impressive . They play differently but I think Ruiz is the better athlete , healthier, better balance and better natural bend

 

I just think he translates a bit better

 

Biadasz has great tape but not the most natural bender 

 

I disagree. 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. 

We clearly do lol and that is ok

 

But I'd bet that Ruiz goes first because most scouts agree

 

And I posted this when biadasz WAS the center1 and people thought Ruiz was a 4th round pick

 

But what do I know , I still scout

 

I'm not foolproof tho and biadasz is a good prospect

Edited February 27, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

We clearly do lol and that is ok

 

But I'd bet that Ruiz goes first because most scouts agree

 

And I posted this when biadasz WAS the center1 and people thought Ruiz was a 4th round pick

 

But what do I know , I still scout

 

I'm not foolproof tho and biadasz is a good prospect

 

I never had Ruiz as a 4th round pick. I think he can play. I also think Ruiz will go 1st but I think that is largely because of the injury concern on Biadasz. And that is asking me to know things I can't know. 

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I never had Ruiz as a 4th round pick. I think he can play. I also think Ruiz will go 1st but I think that is largely because of the injury concern on Biadasz. And that is asking me to know things I can't know. 

I can tell you right now that scouts didn't bump Ruiz because of biadasz injury history. When scouting Oline , they look for clean tape obviously , but most importantly NFL athleticism

 

Scouts come to the combine where they exchange scouting reports.Especially on guys they never saw live... The o line reports got traded around and Ruiz was the winner and jumped to Interior 1. Clean tape and high athleticism

 

People regurgitate what they hear throughout a season, when the scouts get together at the combine , real info is passed around and a real board starts to slowly emerge

 

I just think biadasz isn't in the same level as athlete, even if he's a bit more polished today. I think that's why he went to C2... Which he is still a great prospect

Edited February 27, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

I can tell you right now that scouts didn't bump Ruiz because of biadasz injury history. When scouting Oline , they look for clean tape obviously , but most importantly NFL athleticism

 

Scouts come to the combine where they exchange scouting reports.Especially on guys they never saw live... The o line reports got traded around and Ruiz was the winner and jumped to Interior 1. Clean tape and high athleticism

 

People regurgitate what they hear throughout a season, when the scouts get together at the combine , real info is passed around and a real board starts to slowly emerge

 

I just think biadasz isn't in the same level as athlete, even if he's a bit more polished today

 

I don't get my info off anyone else. Mine is purely based on what I see. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't get my info off anyone else. Mine is purely based on what I see. 

Well obviously, I don't regurgitate what other scouts say. But I'm telling you why the bump happened

 

The scouting community is tight.. it's tough to get together during the season... This is where all the scouts get together and their notes are compared

 

They ARE the people in the trenches

 

And they get paid to know . Lots of times GMs and owners overrule scouts opinions which is dumb

Edited February 27, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Well obviously, I don't regurgitate what other scouts say. But I'm telling you why the bump happened

 

The scouting community is tight.. it's tough to get together during the season... This is where all the scouts get together and their notes are compared

 

They ARE the people in the trenches

 

I get all that. But even within them there will be differences of opinion. I can completely understand why someone might have Ruiz ranked ahead. You seem to feel there is no way someone could have Biadasz ahead. I think that is crazy and there will be scouts out there that do. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I get all that. But even within them there will be differences of opinion. I can completely understand why someone might have Ruiz ranked ahead. You seem to feel there is no way someone could have Biadasz ahead. I think that is crazy and there will be scouts out there that do. 

Oh I know biadasz is C1 on some scouts boards.. i have friends at the combine

 

I'm just saying the consensus 1 is Ruiz

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Oh I know biadasz is C1 on some scouts boards.. i have friends at the combine

 

I'm just saying the consensus 1 is Ruiz

 

Fair enough. I think the consensus is wrong  

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Fair enough. I think the consensus is wrong  

We will find out in 4 years. And I have a regional scout friend who does really like biadasz and is very high on him

Edited February 27, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

We will find out in 4 years.

 

Yep. I am always here to back up my opinions. I have strong views I don't ever shy away from them later. The only get out clause I will give myself on Biadasz is the injury one. If the hip does for him then fair enough. That is info the teams have info to that I don't. 

 

Again none of this is to say I don't like Ruiz. I do. He is #32 on my board. I think he will be a good pro. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Ruiz moves around a bit stiffly to my eyes...

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. I am always here to back up my opinions. I have strong views I don't ever shy away from them later. The only get out clause I will give myself on Biadasz is the injury one. If the hip does for him then fair enough. That is info the teams have info to that I don't. 

 

Again none of this is to say I don't like Ruiz. I do. He is #32 on my board. I think he will be a good pro. 

Well that's why I can respect you. I don't shy away from my strong opinions either

 

It's why I have been in the game so long 

 

And again I don't dislike biadasz at all..I think he's good..  one of my good friends who's a regional scout thinks he's a top flight center prospect and would take him round 1 no questions

[Buffalo716]

@GunnerBill Wirfs or Wills

 

I think Wirfs has AllPro potential at RT and I don't discriminate RT is super important

Edited February 28, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

@GunnerBill Wirfs or Wills

 

I think Wirfs has AllPro potential at RT and I don't discriminate RT is super important

 

Wirfs is my #1 OT. He is #8 on my big board. I love him. 

[Trogdor]

On 2/24/2020 at 1:08 AM, Buffalo716 said:

I mean we still have Ty and then look at the state of line play across the league. It's terrible, worst in league history

 

RT is not a plug and play position unless you are top end talent. Most are still developing at 27, some develop till 30..  it's a slow developing position

 

That's why lots of teams use waiver wire and FAs because they don't have patience to develop them properly

 

You can work on quickness and technique and he actually showed great quickness in college

 

Dion Dawkins is not that great either and nobody says anything because he works hard and wants to improve.. he is upgradable but it's hard to find good Tackles

 

Ford has upside at the Tackle spot. Kicking him inside would be a waste after 16 games

 

As for Ruiz I don't expect him to be the pick but if the high end skill guys are gone he is a great prospect and a guy I personally would consider at the tail end. Historically where the great interior lineman go. He is a very good athlete, scheme fit, versatile and great at pulling which we do a good amount

 

he is gonna blow up the combine I believe and his tape + measurables will definitely have someone take him sooner than later imo

I think he showed good quickness out in front on rushes, but he is horrible at the snap and when backpedaling. He was consistently slower off the snap than anyone else. That's a big reason he was projected at guard. Keeping him at RT will only put more pressure on JA, who already has ball security issues. 

[Buffalo716]

9 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I think he showed good quickness out in front on rushes, but he is horrible at the snap and when backpedaling. He was consistently slower off the snap than anyone else. That's a big reason he was projected at guard. Keeping him at RT will only put more pressure on JA, who already has ball security issues. 

I watched every snap of his at guard and Tackle in Oklahoma. He wouldn't have even been a top 3 round pick a guard, he was decent

 

He became a top two round pick because his tackle play. He was much better at tackle than guard. His guard potential is average while if he can replicate his tackle play at OU he will be high caliber

 

It's not like he was an amazing guard

[T master]

Mine is Chase Claypool with our first pick !! 

[njbuff]

On 2/27/2020 at 4:34 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Ruiz moves around a bit stiffly to my eyes...

I almost thought you said “stiffy” for a second.

 

?

[Turk71]

On 2/23/2020 at 7:24 PM, Buffalo716 said:

You don't draft a RT prospect in round 2 and convert him to guard after 1 year

 

RT is a hard position to play and most peak at 28-30, unless you draft Lane Johnson In the first round

 

Ford will be Ok, we haven't had a good RT here in a long time because we don't let them develop

 

Line play across the league is at an all time low, you need development unless you wanna rely on waiver wire and FA

 

Cody Ford leaving Sooners early for NFL draft

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Jan 1, 2019

• 
  Jake TrotterESPN Staff Writer

Oklahoma junior offensive lineman Cody Ford announced Tuesday that he will enter the NFL draft early.

Ford was a first-team All-Big 12 selection for the Sooners, who won the Joe Moore Award for having the best offensive line in college football.

ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. ranks Ford as the No. 3 available guard in the upcoming draft.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

  Ford was a guard through high school and college until injuries required he switch. Many draft analysts considered him a natural guard and noted that he would need improved footwork to deal with speed on the outside as a tackle. He is young, if he can be a good guard now then that would be great. There is no reason he couldn't play tackle down the road as well. Bottom line is that the Bills absolutely need to get better on the oline as it was improved but still a weakness.

   

Edited March 8, 2020 by Turk71

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Turk71 said:

 

Cody Ford leaving Sooners early for NFL draft

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Jan 1, 2019

• 
  Jake TrotterESPN Staff Writer

Oklahoma junior offensive lineman Cody Ford announced Tuesday that he will enter the NFL draft early.

Ford was a first-team All-Big 12 selection for the Sooners, who won the Joe Moore Award for having the best offensive line in college football.

ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. ranks Ford as the No. 3 available guard in the upcoming draft.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

  Ford was a guard through high school and college until injuries required he switch. Many draft analysts considered him a natural guard and noted that he would need improved footwork to deal with speed on the outside as a tackle. He is young, if he can be a good guard now then that would be great. There is no reason he couldn't play tackle down the road as well. Bottom line is that the Bills absolutely need to get better on the oline as it was improved but still a weakness.

   

Like Mel Kiper and other "analyst's" have never been wrong before?

 

I watched every snap Cody Ford at guard and Tackle and he was a better tackle at OU

 

He might be a good guard but he was drafted in the 2nd cus his tackle play. He wouldn't have been a top 90 pick at guard

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Buffalo716

[BillsFan17]

On 2/23/2020 at 10:24 PM, Buffalo716 said:

You don't draft a RT prospect in round 2 and convert him to guard after 1 year

 

RT is a hard position to play and most peak at 28-30, unless you draft Lane Johnson In the first round

 

Ford will be Ok, we haven't had a good RT here in a long time because we don't let them develop

 

Line play across the league is at an all time low, you need development unless you wanna rely on waiver wire and FA

You realize how many OGs in the league played OT in college and shifted to OG in the NFL?

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

You realize how many OGs in the league played OT in college and shifted to OG in the NFL?

Obviously but that isn't the point, Like I said, I have watched all his snaps at OG and OT at OU.. and he was a better T imo... Would have maybe been a 4th round guard, late 3rd if someone really liked him

 

It's a million times harder to find a starting OT than it is a OG, especially in the first 2 rounds

 

The Bills need to let development take place.. realistically if they wanted him at OG they shoulda just put him there day 1.. tackles get kicked inside alot as you said.. but it's almost always a last ditch move to salvage their career.. not a flip of a second year prospect

 

But the Bills need to play their best players regardless but we haven't had a top o line here because we don't let players develop on the Oline

Edited March 8, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Alphadawg7]

51 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Obviously but that isn't the point, Like I said, I have watched all his snaps at OG and OT at OU.. and he was a better T imo...

 

It's a million times harder to find a starting OT than it is a OG, especially in the first 2 rounds

 

The Bills need to let development take place.. realistically if they wanted him at OG they shoulda just put him there day 1..

 

But the Bills need to play their best players

FWIW he was a better guard than tackle in his first NFL season IMO.

[BillsFan17]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Obviously but that isn't the point, Like I said, I have watched all his snaps at OG and OT at OU.. and he was a better T imo... Would have maybe been a 4th round guard, late 3rd if someone really liked him

 

It's a million times harder to find a starting OT than it is a OG, especially in the first 2 rounds

 

The Bills need to let development take place.. realistically if they wanted him at OG they shoulda just put him there day 1.. tackles get kicked inside alot as you said.. but it's almost always a last ditch move to salvage their career.. not a flip of a second year prospect

 

But the Bills need to play their best players regardless but we haven't had a top o line here because we don't let players develop on the Oline

You are one of a very very very small group of people that think Ford is/will be better at OT than OG.

 

A good amount of his scouting reports (draft year) even alluded to Ford potentially being better off kicking inside. So I sincerely doubt his draft stock would have taken a hit if he was considered a guard coming out. As most projected he would have a better career at that position. 

 

One of the best linemen in the league Nelson was a OT at ND, yet everyone knew he was going to kick inside, and he was selected where? Not comparing Ford to Nelson, just pointing out, projecting to be better inside than out, is not necessarily going go hurt someones stock.

Edited March 8, 2020 by BillsFan17

[Cripple Creek]

On 2/23/2020 at 10:24 PM, Buffalo716 said:

You don't draft a RT prospect in round 2 and convert him to guard after 1 year

 

 

If he's best suited you sure do.  Anything else is wasted picks that could have addressed the issue.  I'll trust the brains to do it right & have the vision to construct a complete team.  I hope that nobody in the room feels like you do. 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said:

You are one of a very very very small group of people that think Ford is/will be better at OT than OG.

 

A good amount of his scouting reports (draft year) even alluded to Ford potentially being better off kicking inside. So I sincerely doubt his draft stock would have taken a hit if he was considered a guard coming out. As most projected he would have a better career at that position. 

 

One of the best linemen in the league Nelson was a OT at ND, yet everyone knew he was going to kick inside, and he was selected where? Not comparing Ford to Nelson, just pointing out, projecting to be better inside than out, is not necessarily going go hurt someones stock.

Yea and I bet none of those analysts watched him play at guard because he was a much better tackle at OU. He was dominant, while a good guard

 

He wasn't a dominant guard that is my point. Most scouting reports talk about elite athleticism and size perfect for developing at tackle .. with G as a Fail-Safe... Taking a dude with his athleticism and instantly sticking him at G is a waste when he can be a very valuable tackle

 

https://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019cford.php

 

I don't think Walter football is gospel but he even mentions better at T than G. Sure he can play guard he's a great athlete. But he is a greater help at T if he develops

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/cody-ford

 

"Has all the tools to be top tier player. Needs refinement first and proper coaching preferably at T first, then moving to G if consistently struggles"

 

It's easier to play Guard I don't doubt he can BUT we need a RT. It's been like a decade or more. And you need to develop them

 

And ND is my favorite college Quentin Nelson was a guard not Tackle

Edited March 8, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

FWIW he was a better guard than tackle in his first NFL season IMO.

In the NFL With limited snaps?

 

It's easier to play guard than tackle , so naturally you will look better because you have more help. Your weaknesses are hidden better

 

There are alot of good guards in the NFL, you can find them in FA every year, 

 

It's hard to find a good tackle and most are developed over time...  They give up on him and we need a tackle

 

He also had good games at tackle as a rook he wasn't a complete fail. We will never have a good RT if we don't develop them

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Alphadawg7]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

In the NFL With limited snaps?

 

It's easier to play guard than tackle , so naturally you will look better because you have more help. Your weaknesses are hidden better

 

There are alot of good guards in the NFL, you can find them in FA every year, 

 

It's hard to find a good tackle and most are developed over time...  They give up on him and we need a tackle

 

He also had good games at tackle as a rook he wasn't a complete fail. We will never have a good RT if we don't develop them

 

 

I’m not saying don’t develop him, and neither are Beane and McD.  But ultimately it wasn’t a banner year at tackle for him.  And you don’t need me to tell you or anyone that, McD has made that abundantly clear but still to this day not committing to a position for him.  
 

At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what the best group of 5 guys is to protect Josh and open up the running lanes too.  And it’s a legit possibly that 5 guy group includes him at guard, just like it’s a legit possibility it includes him at tackle.  
 

But at the end of the day, he had better play as a rookie at guard than tackle.  Doesn’t mean he can’t get better at tackle though, just means he did not lock down the job at tackle and Beane will never hesitate to make this roster better which includes finding a better option at tackle if he sees an opportunity to do so.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I’m not saying don’t develop him, and neither are Beane and McD.  But ultimately it wasn’t a banner year at tackle for him.  And you don’t need me to tell you or anyone that, McD has made that abundantly clear but still to this day not committing to a position for him.  
 

At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what the best group of 5 guys is to protect Josh and open up the running lanes too.  And it’s a legit possibly that 5 guy group includes him at guard, just like it’s a legit possibility it includes him at tackle.  
 

But at the end of the day, he had better play as a rookie at guard than tackle.  Doesn’t mean he can’t get better at tackle though, just means he did not lock down the job at tackle and Beane will never hesitate to make this roster better which includes finding a better option at tackle if he sees an opportunity to do so.

Yea those are all valid points. He also probably has a higher floor at G than T so it's no surprise he looked a bit better

 

He's a raw player, who needs technique work and G hides flaws

 

If he can figure out his footwork , with his size and athleticism he can be a tremendous RT . I wouldn't want to give up on that in 1 year is my point

 

If he is a dumpster fire , ok

[Turk71]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Like Mel Kiper and other "analyst's" have never been wrong before?

 

I watched every snap Cody Ford at guard and Tackle and he was a better tackle at OU

 

He might be a good guard but he was drafted in the 2nd cus his tackle play. He wouldn't have been a top 90 pick at guard

 

 

  I don't disagree with this, my point is that the Bills need a better line now, not waiting  until Ford is good enough at tackle. If Ford is not ready at tackle yet but could play well at guard then that is where he should play. 

  There have been plenty of guards taken in the top 90 picks by the way. Also plenty of tackles taken who ended up as guard. The situation should be fluid and Ford should be playing where he helps the Bills most, not limited to where they intended him to play.