The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Tiberius]

 

Quote

 

As coronavirus ran rampant and record jobless numbers piled up, the nation’s health insurers last week readied for a major announcement: The Trump administration was reopening Obamacare to millions of newly uninsured Americans.

It was an announcement that never came.

 The White House instead rejected the prospect of allowing new sign-ups across the 38 Affordable Care Act marketplaces it controls – a decision that shocked the health care industry, triggered widespread criticism and prompted a scramble within the administration to find a new way to care for the growing population left exposed to the pandemic It's also one that allowed Trump to sidestep an awkward reckoning with the Affordable Care Act that he’s long vowed to kill, and the health care program bearing the name of his Democratic predecessor. The president personally opposed reopening the Obamacare marketplaces when presented with the option, one person familiar with the decision said – prompting the creation of a new initiative that federal officials are now rushing to construct.

“You have a perfectly good answer in front of you, and instead you’re going to make another one up,” said one Republican close to the administration. “It’s purely ideological.”

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/trump-obamacare-coronavirus-164285 

And they are trying to use the Supreme Court to kill health care for 30 million people during a pandemic! Think about that! 

[Troll Toll]

Nice, Cuomo is giving us upstaters COVID infected patients and taking our ventilators. Brilliant!

[shoshin]

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

I don’t blame Cuomo for taking those actions.

 

Dire times call for dire measures and Cuomo should do whoever he can do to help solve this issue that is within his legal powers.

Yes. This is a NYC problem and not so much elsewhere in NY or the US yet. They need the resources if they are not in use. There is a lot of whining about taking things for NYC but NYC is part of this country and it needs our help. If we can help, that’s what we do. 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Magox said:

I don’t blame Cuomo for taking those actions.

 

Dire times call for dire measures and Cuomo should do whoever he can do to help solve this issue that is within his legal powers.

 

It is actually the way it should be working in a crisis. Right now, medical supplies, personnel, and equipment should be diverted from areas that don't have the immediate need to areas that do have immediate need (Karl Marx would be proud of me right now). All areas of the country are not being affected at the same rate or in the same magnitude. We are continuing to produce equipment and supplies that can replenish what is diverted.

[mannc]

23 minutes ago, GG said:

It's a recommendation to use common sense. Even if you are in a rural area you should use a mask if you are around other people.  You don't need to use it at home or in your car.  

I disagree.  More than half the counties in my state have 2 or less cases.  Wearing a mask in grocery stores in most of the country is absurd and I guarantee very few people will do it.  Those masks should be used by people who need them, like employees and residents of senior care facilities.  

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Troll Toll said:

Nice, Cuomo is giving us upstaters COVID infected patients and taking our ventilators. Brilliant!

Historical analogy. At the Battle of Antietam, General Lee possessed the interior lines of defense and was able to allocate resources (troops, cannon) to the points where Gen. McClellan was attacking. Lee had fewer troops, but he was able to survive because he could put the troops where they needed to be and let the areas of the field that were not under attack be relatively undefended. Cuomo and the country need to do the same thing with ventilators 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Yes. This is a NYC problem and not so much elsewhere in NY or the US yet. They need the resources if they are not in use. There is a lot of whining about taking things for NYC but NYC is part of this country and it needs our help. If we can help, that’s what we do. 

Doesn’t anyone see the irony in Cuomo being praised for pushing a NY First agenda while Trump is slammed for pushing an America First agenda? Both these guys are doing exactly what they’re elected to do....fight for their constituents. It’s doesn’t make them either heroes or villains. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, mannc said:

I disagree.  More than half the counties in my state have 2 or less cases.  Wearing a mask in grocery stores in most of the country is absurd and I guarantee very few people will do it.  Those masks should be used by people who need them, like employees and residents of senior care facilities.  

To be fair, they pointed out homemade cloth masks will work. So, tie a bandana across your face.

 

[GG]

Just now, mannc said:

I disagree.  More than half the counties in my state have 2 or less cases.  Wearing a mask in grocery stores in most of the country is absurd and I guarantee very few people will do it.  Those masks should be used by people who need them, like employees and residents of senior care facilities.  

If you want to keep the cases low you need to practice proper preventive protocols.  Look at what they do in Asia, where the contagion is basically stopped. 

 

In any event you shouldn't be wearing an N95 mask.  Planty of options, including home made versions. 

 

[mannc]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

That's all driven by fear of lawsuits, which work as a regulatory check in society. 

 

Highly unlikely.

[Uncle Joe]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

I disagree.  More than half the counties in my state have 2 or less cases.  Wearing a mask in grocery stores in most of the country is absurd and I guarantee very few people will do it.  Those masks should be used by people who need them, like employees and residents of senior care facilities.  

I usually go to the store to replenish on Fridays. I noticed a significant increase in masks yesterday. I'm still a non masker.

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

Highly unlikely.

It's just a truth. The threat of lawsuits are a great motivator to fix things, make things safe and to take precautions 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Tiberius said:

It's just a truth. The threat of lawsuits are a great motivator to fix things, make things safe and to take precautions 

 

I think that is generally true. However, in this case, I think it is primarily about keeping cashiers safer from the virus. They can't social distance.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

It's just a truth. The threat of lawsuits are a great motivator to fix things, make things safe and to take precautions 

They aren’t putting up shields at the grocery stores for fear of lawsuits!!! They’re putting them up before they see a mass walk out by minimum wage grocery checkers that will end up disrupting the very core of the Stay At Home the food chain. 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I think that is generally true. However, in this case, I think it is primarily about keeping cashiers safer from the virus. They can't social distance.

Sure, but Wegmans doesn't want a worker to sue them after they get sick. 

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

They aren’t putting up shields at the grocery stores for fear of lawsuits!!! They’re putting them up before they see a mass walk out by minimum wage grocery checkers that will end up disrupting the very core of the Stay At Home the food chain. 

That is true also 

[Buffalo_Gal]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I think that is generally true. However, in this case, I think it is primarily about keeping cashiers safer from the virus. They can't social distance.

We went to Tops the other day. We chose the self-checkout to stay away from the cashiers. The front end manager asked us why we were not in a cashier line (we had a big cart). ?‍♂️ She was pretty insistent we move. We declined. (They had a lot of cashiers open, but self-checkout was pretty empty too.)


 

[billsfan1959]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Sure, but Wegmans doesn't want a worker to sue them after they get sick. 

 

Heaven knows, most decisions of this nature in our country are generally driven from a civil liability perspective. I honestly feel, in this particular instance, it really is about keeping workers safer. And, as @SoCal Deeksaid, a more motivating factor might be keeping the stores open - which is critical

 

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

We went to Tops the other day. We chose the self-checkout to stay away from the cashiers. The front end manager asked us why we were not in a cashier line (we had a big cart). ?‍♂️ She was pretty insistent we move. We declined. (They had a lot of cashiers open, but self-checkout was pretty empty too.)

 

Over the last week, I have been out to several grocery stores and the hardware store. There are shields up at every check out area. Before that, I was going through the self-checkout as well.

Edited April 4, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Tiberius]

Oh sh it! If they can do it there...then it might happen here! ?

 

Quote

 

Corona beer has become a temporary victim of the coronavirus.

Grupo Modelo, the brewer behind Corona, Modelo and other beers, said in a statement on Thursday that it was suspending its beer production after the Mexican government ordered nonessential businesses to close in an attempt to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

The brewer, which is part of Anheuser-Busch InBev, said that should the federal government decide later that its product was essential, “at Grupo Modelo we are ready to execute a plan with more than 75 percent of our staff working from home and at the same time guaranteeing the supply of beer.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/business/coronavirus-corona-beer.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

[mannc]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

It's just a truth. The threat of lawsuits are a great motivator to fix things, make things safe and to take precautions 

That part is true, but it’s not why grocery stores are limiting the number of customers who can enter at any one time.

[billsfan1959]

25 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Historical analogy. At the Battle of Antietam, General Lee possessed the interior lines of defense and was able to allocate resources (troops, cannon) to the points where Gen. McClellan was attacking. Lee had fewer troops, but he was able to survive because he could put the troops where they needed to be and let the areas of the field that were not under attack be relatively undefended. Cuomo and the country need to do the same thing with ventilators 

 

This is actually a good analogy. There are plenty of ventilators to handle the areas of immediate need. Tracking of data is pretty detailed right now, in terms of the next potential hot spots. Ventilators are being produced every day and can be distributed (along with those no longer needed in other areas) where they are going to be needed next

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

This is actually a good analogy. There are plenty of ventilators to handle the areas of immediate need. Tracking of data is pretty detailed right now, in terms of the next potential hot spots. Ventilators are being produced every day and can be distributed (along with those no longer needed in other areas) where they are going to be needed next

If NYC doesn't recover fast enough then ventilators from someplace else will have to be sent here (WNY) and the bitching will move on down the line. It will be a musical chairs, but a necassary thing. No one is going to be happy, but that's how it goes 

[mannc]

14 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Sure, but Wegmans doesn't want a worker to sue them after they get sick. 

 

They can’t.  They are limited to collecting workers comp.  And only if they can prove they got the virus from work, which would be tough to do.

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

That part is true, but it’s not why grocery stores are limiting the number of customers who can enter at any one time.

If a while bunch of customers got sick at a Walmart because they were not taking these precations, ya, they would be sued 

Just now, mannc said:

They can’t.  They are limited to collecting workers comp.  And only if they can prove they got the virus from work, which would be tough to do.

A lawyer or lawyers would sure try to make the connection. And look at it this way, a worker has it, and then several customers catch it and video surveilence shows the customers went through that line! Millions of dollars involved there! 

[mannc]

Just now, Tiberius said:

If a while bunch of customers got sick at a Walmart because they were not taking these precations, ya, they would be sued 

That would be extremely difficult to prove. That’s not why they are adopting those policies.

[Chandemonium]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

President Trump has been tested twice for the coronavirus, and been negative both times. Since everyone who comes in close contact with Trump or Pence is now being tested for cornavirus beforehand, I think they want to keep it that way.

The CDC mask recommendations are voluntary. That was emphasized yesterday if you watched the presser. 

As I understand it, a mask is used so people with coronavirus (symptomatic or asymptomatic) do not cough or sneeze on other people possibly spreading the virus to others. If everyone coughed into their elbow or sneezed into a tissue and tossed the tissue away, masks would be superfluous.

What I find interesting is recommending the masks to wear in grocery stores and pharmacies. Will that increase thefts? If I am intent on robbing a place, a bandit mask would not seem out of place at this time. Perfect way to disguise my face to rob a convenience store, gas station, pharmacy, etc.
 

I was joking with my wife yesterday about how I’m excited that now it’s going to be socially acceptable to go out in public dressed like an Old West bank robber.

[Tiberius]

Just now, Chandemonium said:

I was joking with my wife yesterday about how I’m excited that now it’s going to be socially acceptable to go out in public dressed like an Old West bank robber.

LOL, and we can walk into banks like that now ha ha 

[mannc]

26 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said:

I usually go to the store to replenish on Fridays. I noticed a significant increase in masks yesterday. I'm still a non masker.

I agree.  More people are going to start wearing masks around town.  I won’t be one of them.

[billsfan1959]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

If NYC doesn't recover fast enough then ventilators from someplace else will have to be sent here (WNY) and the bitching will move on down the line. It will be a musical chairs, but a necassary thing. No one is going to be happy, but that's how it goes 

 

Right. I think there is enough data now in this country to adequately identify trends in the movement of this virus, and which areas than can safely do with less medical equipment, supplies, and personnel at the moment - and which ares those resources need to be moved to.

 

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

LOL, and we can walk into banks like that now ha ha 

 

Except, you can only go through the drive through right now. Kind of takes all the fun out of it

Edited April 4, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

That would be extremely difficult to prove. That’s not why they are adopting those policies.

Imagine ; the big , bad employer might actually be trying to protect its workers from a careless and unhygienic public. 

[mannc]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

 

Right. I think there is enough data now in this country to adequately identify trends in the movement of this virus, and which areas than can safely do with less medical equipment, supplies, and personnel at the moment - and which ares those resources need to be moved to.

A few days ago, according to the Oregon Health Authority, there were 770 ventilators available in the state and less than 40 CV19 patients who were using one.  They’ve now stopped publishing that data.  Maybe they fear appropriation by other parts of the country...

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I agree.  More people are going to start wearing masks around town.  I won’t be one of them.

And they will hoard them , as they will believe it gives them a large measure of protection vs everyone else. Heck, they hoard toilet paper. Still. 

[Chandemonium]

53 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Cool, so a bunch of people can wait 1 foot apart in a line waiting to enter the store. LOL

When I went to academy sports the other day they were doing this, and they had cones set out 6 feet apart on the sidewalk for people to stand at while they waited.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

A few days ago, according to the Oregon Health Authority, there were 770 ventilators available in the state and less than 40 CV19 patients who were using one.  They’ve now stopped publishing that data.  Maybe they fear appropriation by other parts of the country...

 

I think that's part of the problem. I believe enough ventilators could be reallocated right now to areas of immediate need, without leaving any area vulnerable. Particularly when more are being produced every day. 

[shoshin]

44 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Doesn’t anyone see the irony in Cuomo being praised for pushing a NY First agenda while Trump is slammed for pushing an America First agenda? Both these guys are doing exactly what they’re elected to do....fight for their constituents. It’s doesn’t make them either heroes or villains. 

Cuomo is reminding us that we need to work together when one of us is down. That’s never a bad message and really it shouldn’t need to be said. 
 

When Hawaii got attacked, 49 states responded. Same with 9-11.  
 

We can help ourselves and others and others can help us. 

[mannc]

Just now, shoshin said:
 

When Hawaii got attacked, 49 states responded. 

Well, except there were only 48 states then, and Hawaii wasn’t one of them.?

[shoshin]

18 minutes ago, mannc said:

I agree.  More people are going to start wearing masks around town.  I won’t be one of them.

 

Do you get vaccinations to protect other people? A cloth mask at the grocery store seems like a simple ask. 
 

Tokyo metro has 38M people. The daily death  toll in all of Japan has topped 20 for a single day. Maybe social distancing and masks make a difference. (Maybe other things too.) 
 

Just consider it. I won’t try to shame you or call the jack booted thugs. But it’s not much to ask. 
 

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Well, except there were only 48 states then, and Hawaii wasn’t one of them.?

Touche. It proves my point even better!

Edited April 4, 2020 by shoshin

[Buffalo_Gal]

21 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Do you get vaccinations to protect other people?

I get vaccinations to protect me from other people.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[MILFHUNTER#518]

Alot of people share his sentiment. 

 

https://wham1180.iheart.com/content/2020-04-04-lonsberry-cuomos-order-is-an-act-of-executive-homicide/#.XoiYbDVfoGc.twitter

 

You’ve been triaged, upstate New York.

 

The governor put the black tag around your neck.

 

Some will live and some will die and, well, you don’t get to live.

 

That’s what Andy Cuomo’s decree of Friday means. Your ventilators go to his voters and when you get the COVID, well, good luck to you. If all goes well, your family can have a memorial service in a year or two, after the Chinese sell us the vaccine.

 

And if it’s not you, it’s your grandmother, or somebody’s grandfather, suffocating alone on a gurney in a tent.

 

He has decided to redistribute death, from the areas that weren’t prepared and aren’t social distancing, to the areas that were and are. He is robbing the poor to give to the rich.

 

He’s taking crucial and irreplaceable medical equipment from those parts of the state that voted for his opponent in the last election, and moving them to those areas of the state that voted for him.

 

And he’s sending the National Guard to do it.

 

“Deploy” was the verb he used. He’s deploying the Army to seize gloves, masks, gowns and ventilators from hospitals and clinics in upstate New York.

 

That will sicken nurses, doctors and respiratory therapists, and kill critically ill patients.

 

And that’s not just rhetoric, it’s undeniable medical truth.

 

Andy signed your DNR.

 

When every network newscast features an angry or frightened nurse shouting into her phone about the need for PPE, Andy Amin is taking PPE away from thousands of nurses across the broad swathe of upstate. He is endangering them and their families. He is increasing the likelihood that they will get infected, and that they will take the virus home to their children, spouses and parents.

 

When he said, “We’re all in this together,” you didn’t think he was talking about the grave.

 

The scenario is as old as the state – upstate is the door mat of downstate, a subjugated region overseen by an imperial master whose every action shows a disdain for his inferior colonial subjects. And so it is that in the life-or-death scramble to be prepared for the peak of the coronavirus wave, he has decided that upstate will take the hit.

 

All across largely rural upstate New York, chronically one of the poorest regions in the United States, hospitals have over years scrimped and saved to be properly equipped to serve their communities. This has been incredibly hard. The need is high and the purse is empty, but they’ve mostly been able to do it. Even when Obamacare forced many of them out of business or into consolidation, they pushed on, taking care of the people whose parents and grandparents sacrificed to build and fund the hospitals.

 

And then came the coronavirus, and hometown hospitals sprang into action, marshalling their forces and resources. All while facing the financial devastation of the government-ordered suspension of all elective surgeries and procedures – which has led some hospitals to furlough nurses and doctors, and left some with daily operating deficits in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

But the hospitals and their wonderful staffs pushed on.

 

And they stand ready, with enough gloves and masks to get them through a couple of weeks, and not nearly enough ventilators to meet the anticipated need of their communities.

 

And then Andy “Baby Doc” Duvalier spoke, and confiscated with his pen and his army those ventilators and gloves and masks.

 

Within two hours his administration’s position went from “excess” supplies to a mandatory 10% to a mandatory 20%, and now the weekend comes and the National Guard trucks are expected to roll and we all know they’ll take whatever the hell he wants.

 

The SOB took our PPE.

 

I wonder how many National Guardsmen will be returning on orders to their home communities to gather up and confiscate the medical supplies which would have cared for their own families. I wonder how many National Guard husbands will seize the masks and gloves that would have protected their own nurse wives.

 

I wonder why a governor whose civil government includes a fleet of thousands of vehicles decided to send military trucks and uniformed soldiers to confiscate medical supplies from his subjects.

 

Cavalierly in front of reporters, he brushed off any fear of restraining law suits, and said that New York City would return the ventilators when it is done with them, or will reimburse rural hospitals for them. That’s cold comfort from a governor who says he’s broke, and who repeatedly has said ventilators aren’t available on the open market.

 

Several upstate communities have lit candles to honor and thank the health care workers on the frontlines of this fight. By plundering their personal protective equipment, the governor is assuring that we will next light candles for their funerals. We are marching into battle, and he just confiscated our bullets.

 

We have elderly people in fear for their lives, and their governor has just made it less likely there will be a ventilator available for them when their crisis comes.

 

He mishandles his state and its largest city, creating a worse situation than existed in Italy, and puts New York on track to be the hardest-hit region in the global pandemic, and decides to devastate a region which had the good sense to be prepared.

 

And this all happens on the same day we learn that the unemployment website will be down for at least another week, and the governor gets a $25,000 raise this year and another $25,000 raise next year.

 

His executive order is an act of homicide.

 

And Cuomo will be remembered by history as the truck governor.

 

Army trucks for his theft, and refrigerated trucks for his dead.

 

 

[mannc]

11 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Do you get vaccinations to protect other people? A cloth mask at the grocery store seems like a simple ask. 
 

Tokyo metro has 38M people. The daily death  toll in all of Japan has topped 20 for a single day. Maybe social distancing and masks make a difference. (Maybe other things too.) 
 

 

The hysteria needs to stop.  There are few cases in my area and the number of new cases is stable, as are the numbers of new deaths and hospitalizations.  We have been sheltering in place for almost three weeks now, so that’s not going to change.  It’s not not time to adopt new fear-mongering requirements.

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

The hysteria needs to stop.  There are few cases in my area and the number of new cases is stable, as are the numbers of new deaths and hospitalizations.  We have been sheltering in place for almost three weeks now, so that’s not going to change.  It’s not not time to adopt new fear-mongering requirements.

There is a certain segment of the population that likes to tell other people what to do and shame them into doing it. And, there is a certain segment of the population that enjoys being told what to do and obeying without thought.

Both sets of those people are tickled pink right now.