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Sammy Watkins: New Teams, Same Bad Attitude

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4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

This is the biggest question heading into off-season #4 with McD.  Is he going to change his stripes and embrace a high-powered offense featuring the QB they used so many resources to acquire?  Or will he remain the HC who tried to sit on a 16 point lead in the wild card round and believes his defense is key to winning in the post-season? 

 

I would think year 3 of Allen they'll take the training wheels off the offense and trying to score more than their 20 points per.  Organizational strategy needs to change this off-season.

 

See I think there were issues with the offense... but sitting on leads or having the training wheels on Josh are not, for the most part, two of them. McDermott cannot be blamed in the same breath for being too conservative and for allowing his offense to throw too much with a lead. Yet on this board he seems to get both. They are not failing to score points because they are too conservative. They are failing to score enough points because their execution was a problem all year.  

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46 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Like Tryrod or not, that offense was #10 in scoring in the NFL.  An offenses job is to score points.  Doesn't have to be pretty or what you like in regards to offensive styles to be effective.

 

that offense didn't need to make gallant 4th quarter comebacks that often because they were able to score enough points so that the D could protect it.

 

In 2017 there were only 3 opportunities for comebacks.  In one, we were down 7 at the 2:00 warning and won by 3 in regulation( bucs).  Another was against Carolina where Tyrod threw a pass to Zay that probably could have been caught if he had run the right route (Steve Taker, NFL WR said he ran the wrong route).  And the third was Bengals which we blew. So that's 1 out of 3. 

 

Josh was able to get a few vs Jets, Titans, Dolphins but also missed on many oppotunites against mostly good teams like NE twice, Baltimore, Cleveland, Houston.  If you add them all he's probably close to 3 out of 8 which not rally much of a higher percentage than we did before 33% vs 38% (maybe up to 50). 

 

But if we were able to score more points we wouldn't need all these comebacks especially with the defense we have.

 

The 3 years Tyrod was the starting QB they ranked 2015 - 12th, 2016 - 10th & in 2017 - 22nd in points per game. The only year they made the playoffs, was the year they ranked 22nd & averaged less points a game(18.9) than this year's 22nd ranked offense(19.6). 

 

Sean came to the team in 2017 and the offense went from 10th in points per game at 24.9 and fell to 22nd at 18.9 points per game. Maybe, just maybe it's not all the QBs fault for the lack of points since we hired a defensive minded HC, who plays as conservative as any coach out there and that side of the ball was stripped of any talent they had prior.

 

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48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

See I think there were issues with the offense... but sitting on leads or having the training wheels on Josh are not, for the most part, two of them. McDermott cannot be blamed in the same breath for being too conservative and for allowing his offense to throw too much with a lead. Yet on this board he seems to get both. They are not failing to score points because they are too conservative. They are failing to score enough points because their execution was a problem all year.  

 

Here's Brandon Beane at the final presser: "And a lot of times, if you make the playoffs your last game is kind of emblematic of—if you don’t win it all, whether you go to the championship game or lose like we did—a lot of times it kind of shows you where your season went, where you’re good and where you need to get better. And I thought we saw that [on Saturday], we just didn’t score enough points."

 

In the final game, Buffalo scored 13 points in the first half.  Yet, in the second half they scored only 6.  I'm sorry that you blame the players for not executing the McD designed game-plan.  This argument ignores that McD is at center of organizational decision making.  Because, if it's the players who aren't good enough for you, who is picking the players or having the major voice in that process? 

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7 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Here's Brandon Beane at the final presser: "And a lot of times, if you make the playoffs your last game is kind of emblematic of—if you don’t win it all, whether you go to the championship game or lose like we did—a lot of times it kind of shows you where your season went, where you’re good and where you need to get better. And I thought we saw that [on Saturday], we just didn’t score enough points."

 

In the final game, Buffalo scored 13 points in the first half.  Yet, in the second half they scored only 6.  I'm sorry that you blame the players for not executing the McD designed game-plan.  This argument ignores that McD is at center of organizational decision making.  Because, if it's the players who aren't good enough for you, who is picking the players or having the major voice in that process? 

 

Brandon Beane. There are lots of reasons we are not scoring enough points and lots of people who are responsible. But fundamentally it is because we don't have enough talent on that side of the ball and admitted such in that same press conference. He has to do a better job. I see a lot of people here crowning him.... and yet the one undoubted superstar this regime has drafted was drafted by McDermott before Beane got here. I think Beane has done okay. But he has to do a better job with offensive talent.

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18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brandon Beane. There are lots of reasons we are not scoring enough points and lots of people who are responsible. But fundamentally it is because we don't have enough talent on that side of the ball and admitted such in that same press conference. He has to do a better job. I see a lot of people here crowning him.... and yet the one undoubted superstar this regime has drafted was drafted by McDermott before Beane got here. I think Beane has done okay. But he has to do a better job with offensive talent.

 

After these last 2 posts, I don't know who you're blaming anymore.  First it was the players not executing McD's scheme properly.  Now it's Beane for not acquiring (even though McD runs the show) enough offensive talent? 

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21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brandon Beane. There are lots of reasons we are not scoring enough points and lots of people who are responsible. But fundamentally it is because we don't have enough talent on that side of the ball and admitted such in that same press conference. He has to do a better job. I see a lot of people here crowning him.... and yet the one undoubted superstar this regime has drafted was drafted by McDermott before Beane got here. I think Beane has done okay. But he has to do a better job with offensive talent.

And again how do you improve talent at the skill positions?  I can't think there is a single FA who would believe a word Beane or McDermott says about the offense & their goals based on their actions the last three years. 

 

So the Bills would need to over pay & they won't do that.

 

Now the draft is the key & we'll wait & see.  Again the the concern is that if they produce, will they be paid?

 

Who was the last highly paid player on the Bills Offense? 

 

BTW Watkins would have been the answer if he stayed & the Bills made sure that that decision would never have had to be made.😉

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5 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

they had FOUR 10+ loss seasons before this one.

 

that's FOUR consecutive drafts of picking VERY high in the draft. All those picks built that beastly DL they're fielding.

 

 

 

We all know what their records were.  You said that was by design.

 

Was hiring Chip Kelly "tanking"?

 

I described the circumstances for the 2 seasons before this one.  Show me how Lynch/Shanahan were tanking.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brandon Beane. There are lots of reasons we are not scoring enough points and lots of people who are responsible. But fundamentally it is because we don't have enough talent on that side of the ball and admitted such in that same press conference. He has to do a better job. I see a lot of people here crowning him.... and yet the one undoubted superstar this regime has drafted was drafted by McDermott before Beane got here. I think Beane has done okay. But he has to do a better job with offensive talent.

 

 

I think you are much too hasty to absolve McDermott.

 

In 2017 he brought 10 starters to camp from the most effective offense the Bills had fielded in 25 years...........and they ended up at the bottom of the league.

 

A LOT of that was coaching decisions..........which is on McDermott.

 

But yes Beane needs to do a better job with personnel.    I don't think that better coaching couldn't get more from the offense though.........some coaches bring synergy.    McDermott does that on defense.

 

Other coaches get the minimum from their talent.........and some get less.    I suspect that Daboll gets the minimum.....which might be OK if Beane can load the cupboard......but it could be that he makes them worse by forcing scheme where it isn't going to work then living on the "execution" excuse.    Either way I think it's most likely one of those 2 and that's on McDermott.

 

Edited by BADOLBILZ
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36 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

After these last 2 posts, I don't know who you're blaming anymore.  First it was the players not executing McD's scheme properly.  Now it's Beane for not acquiring (even though McD runs the show) enough offensive talent? 

 

There is no single place to blame. It is not that easy. The players we have are not good enough on offense and Beane hasn't done a good enough job of giving the coaches enough talent on that side of the ball. 

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20 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:


For about the same money from what was market rate that year, he passed up being the possible no. 1 for the bears, cowboys, and packers, in order to be the fourth option in KC. People want to know why there is Sammy Watkins hate; it’s because many don’t think he has heart or competitive fire. 

If there’s one thing you can’t have on your team, it’s a guy without heart or competitive fire hauling in 60 yard touchdowns to put a trip to the Super Bowl on ice.  No thank you.

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2 hours ago, Billl said:

If there’s one thing you can’t have on your team, it’s a guy without heart or competitive fire hauling in 60 yard touchdowns to put a trip to the Super Bowl on ice.  No thank you.


I mean, good for him. No one is doubting he has talent. That’s the point. He is very talented. Yet, he’s on the most explosive offense in football, and Cole Beasley has a better year than him? Seriously, a guy that talented with such low production now for about 4 years straight.  What gives? 

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9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Don't be.  Many in this thread are bemoaning that Watkins is gone and caught a rare TD pass yesterday and is headed to the SB.  Given the ocean of McCoy acolytes here, I was imagining the response of McCoy played and had an equally rare big game for the Chiefs yesterday.

 

Simple. 


so rare. 
 

4 TDs for the whole season 

 

3 in the first week IIRC 

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11 hours ago, BillsVet said:

The question to ask is why can't Buffalo?  What's holding them back from achieving?

Fill us in, please.

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11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I couldn't stand Whaley as a GM. I still view him as having acted like an undisciplined child. That said, the above is not possible to argue and at the same time maintain credibility.

Can you translate it for me? I’m serious. I have no idea what your buddy is saying.

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 

They inherited a .500 team that was underachieving due to their previous lazy, awful HC who took a top defense and made it weak and had Tyrod Tailor leading the offense.

You disagree with my addition?

 

you wanted to keep Darius? Watkins (with no Qb to get him the ball)? Darby?  Who?

 

What tremendous difference makers walked?

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11 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The false narrative is the dumpster fire and taking over a terrible team.  

 

We all know year one was a fluke pass that got them in the playoffs and year 3 a very easy schedule was the primary reason.

Have you really been a fan since 1972? I hope you don’t mind, but, why?  I don’t know you from Adam, but based on your responses in this thread I wonder, why? If you got no enjoyment out of breaking the drought, or this past season, then, why?

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8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Have you really been a fan since 1972? I hope you don’t mind, but, why?  I don’t know you from Adam, but based on your responses in this thread I wonder, why? If you got no enjoyment out of breaking the drought, or this past season, then, why?

If you must know yes.  I can also be honest in my assessment of the team & what I see.  Yes 10-6 & wins aside, they weren't an exciting team to watch.  I am a fan of Offense in football & the last 3 years has been difficult to watch as the offense is painful at times.  

 

Disagree all you want, but I'm only being honest.

Edited by Billsfan1972

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9 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

If you got no enjoyment out of breaking the drought, or this past season, then, why?


losing two wildcard games because you can’t score points isn’t going to bring the accolades. 

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9 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Have you really been a fan since 1972? I hope you don’t mind, but, why?  I don’t know you from Adam, but based on your responses in this thread I wonder, why? If you got no enjoyment out of breaking the drought, or this past season, then, why?

 

Everyone has their own version of fandom. I enjoy watching every Buffalo Bills football game whether it is a 4th pre-season game in a year when we are destined to suck or a playoff game in a year when we have been good. However, I don't think that means I must be positive about everything. There are things about the current situation of the franchise that I still think are wrong or things they need to do better. It doesn't lessen my enjoyment to debate and discuss those.

 

I actually love this time of year. We saw where the team are and now we have a couple of months to speculate on and debate the strategy for taking us to the next level. Is it better when that next level is going from the post-season to making a run in the post-season than it was when that next level was just trying to scrape into the playoffs? Sure. But now is when we get to fix the bits that are wrong. I think this is a massive offseason for Brandon Beane.

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the people who have been complaining for years area still complaining.  shocking.

 

it's been said many times that this team isn't a finished product, so there's that, but i just don't know how anyone can argue that this team isn't in a better position than it was 3 years ago.  i suppose who it's just who some people are.  if they're not miserable about something, they're not happy.  man *****.

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3 minutes ago, teef said:

the people who have been complaining for years area still complaining.  shocking.

 

it's been said many times that this team isn't a finished product, so there's that, but i just don't know how anyone can argue that this team isn't in a better position than it was 3 years ago.  i suppose who it's just who some people are.  if they're not miserable about something, they're not happy.  man *****.


Blowing a 16-0 lead will do that to ya, if we lose to the Chiefs I think we would all have been a little happier.    

Edited by Teddy KGB

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29 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:


Blowing a 16-0 lead will do that to ya, if we lose to the Chiefs I think we would all have been a little happier.    

sure it was a mess, but there's a bigger picture here.  i have the feeling the people screaming the loudest were the ones who said we wouldn't even sniff the playoffs.  this year was a positive no matter how anyone wants to spin it.  we saw young players get better, josh made improvements, they managed to avoid the number of blowouts they saw the year before, were competitive and made the playoffs, etc.  it's an upward trajectory.  reading the last few pages you would think this team won 6 games again.  

 

now if next year's team resembles this year's team, i get the complaints.

Edited by teef
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3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

If you must know yes.  I can also be honest in my assessment of the team & what I see.  Yes 10-6 & wins aside, they weren't an exciting team to watch.  I am a fan of Offense in football & the last 3 years has been difficult to watch as the offense is painful at times.  

 

Disagree all you want, but I'm only being honest.

There's no disagreeing, it's a personal choice.  Reading that one sentence you used to describe the two most recent playoff appearances shows no hint of pleasure.  I get that we get entrenched in these threads and sometimes say things for effect.  I'll assume that you are as passionate a fan as I am and that you do really get enjoyment from the team.

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23 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

SF tanked.

 

Period. This team didn't. Apples and oranges. Tanking works, and San Francisco proves it.

 

 

 

Not sure they tanked but they did bottom out. I don't think there was ever a season throughout the Tomsula, Kelly and first Shanahan year where they intentionally lost. The 2nd Shanny year they lost their QB in week 3. That helped them get Bosa but it wasn't an intentional tanking. If Jimmy G doesn't get injured there is no way they are drafting #2.  

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Again the thread was about Watkins and the hate here primarily because the Bills traded up to get him.  Been a long time since the Bills had continuity or a player to cheer for beyond 3 years in a skill position.

 

As I stated Watkins was going into year 4, seems healthy and him and Tyrod seemed to be working well together (2016 injury aside).... 

 

What happened?  The new regime gutted the offense and never answered for it. 

 

This salary cap excuse with a player under a rookie contract was mallarky.

 

What really bothers me is people here upset with him solely as to when he was drafted and not his performance.  

 

Plenty of Bills were drafted high and didn't perform & they are out of the league or marginal players.

 

Only Watkins is commanding $10,000,000+ a year.

Do a search of all the pseudo-gms claiming Watkins wouldn't get any sizeable offers last year.

 

If you are a talent you get paid.  Buffalo I hope understands that.

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2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again the thread was about Watkins and the hate here primarily because the Bills traded up to get him.  Been a long time since the Bills had continuity or a player to cheer for beyond 3 years in a skill position.

 

As I stated Watkins was going into year 4, seems healthy and him and Tyrod seemed to be working well together (2016 injury aside).... 

 

What happened?  The new regime gutted the offense and never answered for it. 

 

This salary cap excuse with a player under a rookie contract was mallarky.

 

What really bothers me is people here upset with him solely as to when he was drafted and not his performance.  

 

Plenty of Bills were drafted high and didn't perform & they are out of the league or marginal players.

 

Only Watkins is commanding $10,000,000+ a year.

Do a search of all the pseudo-gms claiming Watkins wouldn't get any sizeable offers last year.

 

If you are a talent you get paid.  Buffalo I hope understands that.

i don't think this is the problem at all.  i certainly can't speak for everyone, but i think the issue with sammy is that his production has never matched his talent.  it's been a real issue with him.  he'll flash greatness at times only to disappear for games.  he's not dominant, but he's paid like a dominant wr.  not that what he gets paid is our problem, but i don't think most see the value there.

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