Allen slammed on ESPN

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I have freely admitted that the offense is my obsession with a "competent" offense, which we haven't seen since McD came in and gutted it.

 

 

McDermott gutted the offense?

I guess you could say that. 
 

what pro bowl caliber players were lost that weren’t replaced with equal or better players?

 

Shady?  Gore is equivalent IMO 

Zay Jones?

Kelvin Benjamin?

 

[thebandit27]

52 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah hahahahahahahahaha  ?Ahh hahahah ?

Sorry, Dave, but I live in St Louis and know people who knew Martz when he coached here, family friends of the Martz and players and coaches kids and such. 

That's just funny.

 

I mean, Martz may have SAID something like that in the media or something, but it's not reflective of what he said to the team or likely believed.  There are limited situations where it's probably true - if you're in the other team's territory but outside FG range and it's 4th down, an INT can be kind of punt like. That's like, a limited 15-20 yd range of field position and 1 out of 4 downs.  Warner's 2 INTs had a big effect on St Louis losing the 2001 SB to the Pats.  What Martz thought was probably more in line with his famous sideline rant about Incognito which went something like "what the ***** is wrong with that mother *****?" as he ripped his headseat off and threw it.

 

When Warner was a functional NFL QB, BTW, his overall TD to INT ratio was 1.7 or better.  [He threw a lot of picks, but he also threw a Ton of TDs].  Jameis Winston approached 1.5 TD/INT his first 2 years - hit it his 2nd as I recall - and it's not an accident that was the year the team had its best record with him at QB.  Not since - including this year, 1.25.  It's actually not the absolute number of picks that's probably important, it's the ratio - the QB needs to be generating something like 50% more points for the team than he puts at risk through INTs for the offense to be functional and the team to win.

 

 

Martz had to be restrained from going after Mularkey in the tunnel at The Ralph one time.

 

Called him a #### sucker because he lost 2 CBs for the season in the same game due to low blocks from Bills' OLmen.

 

True story.

[MassHog]

Highly Questionable is by far the worst show on ESPN. Bomani Jones would look in physical pain to be on that show

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah hahahahahahahahaha  ?Ahh hahahah ?

Sorry, Dave, but I live in St Louis and know people who knew Martz when he coached here, family friends of the Martz and players and coaches kids and such. 

That's just funny.

 

I mean, Martz may have SAID something like that in the media or something, but it's not reflective of what he said to the team or likely believed.  There are limited situations where it's probably true - if you're in the other team's territory but outside FG range and it's 4th down, an INT can be kind of punt like. That's like, a limited 15-20 yd range of field position and 1 out of 4 downs.  Warner's 2 INTs had a big effect on St Louis losing the 2001 SB to the Pats.  What Martz thought was probably more in line with his famous sideline rant about Incognito which went something like "what the ***** is wrong with that mother *****?" as he ripped his headseat off and threw it.

 

When Warner was a functional NFL QB, BTW, his overall TD to INT ratio was 1.7 or better.  [He threw a lot of picks, but he also threw a Ton of TDs].  Jameis Winston approached 1.5 TD/INT his first 2 years - hit it his 2nd as I recall - and it's not an accident that was the year the team had its best record with him at QB.  Not since - including this year, 1.25.  It's actually not the absolute number of picks that's probably important, it's the ratio - the QB needs to be generating something like 50% more points for the team than he puts at risk through INTs for the offense to be functional and the team to win.

 

Agree 100 percent about the ratio! The idea being if you're going to sling it, you're going to get a lot of TDs but also have to expect that you'll get some picks. I'm hardly saying Winston is perfect, but over the past 4 games (a quarter season) he has 11 TDs and 6 INTs and is averaging over 10 ypa. Those are Warner-esque numbers.

[Pokebball]

If Josh wasn't getting recognized in good ways, the critics wouldn't be countering.  Critics of these critics come out stronger and louder.

 

This is all part of the process and is a good thing.  Josh needs to continue to improve.  And of course, everyone agrees with that.

 

This isn't any different than our defense - getting a lot of press with critics talking about the weak schedule, yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

Bad press about Josh, the Bills defense, etc. really is good press, as long as the Bills continue to deliver with improvements.  Enjoy and embrace the process  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agree 100 percent about the ratio! The idea being if you're going to sling it, you're going to get a lot of TDs but also have to expect that you'll get some picks. I'm hardly saying Winston is perfect, but over the past 4 games (a quarter season) he has 11 TDs and 6 INTs and is averaging over 10 ypa. Those are Warner-esque numbers.

 

If he can sustain that long term, the Bucs will have something, then.  He’s got a great arm, always has had.

 

The problem with guys who have been what they’ve been for 4 seasons or so, is that it can be a pretty engrained pattern he’ll regress to at the worst time.  It’s kind of like Fitzy where he’ll put together a string of 4-5 games where he’s 11 TD and 4 INTs or something and you think Oh, My the light has gone on, he’s really gotten it finally.  And then the next 5 games will be 6 TD and 9 INTs.

 

 

59 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Martz had to be restrained from going after Mularkey in the tunnel at The Ralph one time.

Called him a #### sucker because he lost 2 CBs for the season in the same game due to low blocks from Bills' OLmen.

True story.

 

Doesn’t surprise me in the least to hear with the various stories I’ve heard.  

 

Were they dirty blocks or just “stuff happens”?

[Z-Mann]

A lot of you guys on here don't get the show...it's not supposed to be taken seriously.  I just laugh at those types of opinions as the Bills keep winning games...

[Z-Mann]

Huh...Winston puts up gaudy numbers, but...WOW...as far as doing the two most important things for a QB to (besides wins), which is producing TD's and not turning the ball over... Allen is EASILY better than Winston this year.

 

• Winston - 31 total TD's generated (30 passing, 1 running), 29 turnovers (24 picks, 5 fumbles lost) - 1.1 : 1 TD to turnover ratio
• Allen - 27 total TD's generated (18 passing 9 running), 13 turnovers (9 picks, 4 fumbles lost) - 2.1 : 1 TD to turnover ratio

The one thing I feel that Winston has over Allen is the ability to throw for a lot of yards, if necessary.  If I was behind by 21 points, I want Winston to have a shot at coming back.  Either I do or I lose by 42 points from his turnovers.  Allen hasn't shown me YET that, if the defense falters a bit and they fall behind by 21, that he can bring them back with his arm.

 

Give me the 2019 Allen over the 2019 Winston every time.

 

[TwistofFate]

All things being equal, there is truth in what they are saying.   

 

The weakest position is quarterback.   With more out of that position, this team would be damn near unstoppable and would probably be a super bowl contender. 

 

Dion Sanders has eluded to this as well.   Being ranked 28th in passing, if we were somewhere from 10-15 we would be extremely dangerous. 

 

Fans need to have a little thicker skin pertaining to Allen.   You can have hope but be objective. 

[thebandit27]

42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If he can sustain that long term, the Bucs will have something, then.  He’s got a great arm, always has had.

 

The problem with guys who have been what they’ve been for 4 seasons or so, is that it can be a pretty engrained pattern he’ll regress to at the worst time.  It’s kind of like Fitzy where he’ll put together a string of 4-5 games where he’s 11 TD and 4 INTs or something and you think Oh, My the light has gone on, he’s really gotten it finally.  And then the next 5 games will be 6 TD and 9 INTs.

 

 

 

Doesn’t surprise me in the least to hear with the various stories I’ve heard.  

 

Were they dirty blocks or just “stuff happens”?

 

At the time they were legal; now they're not 

[section122]

 

On 12/19/2019 at 9:38 AM, jrober38 said:

 

Either they don't trust the QB, or they are playing a conservative playing style you don't see from many top NFL teams. 

 

 

I disagree.  Patriots are employing the same exact strategy this year and did at the end of last year.  Until Wilson came into his own, the Seahawks won a superbowl playing that way.  Broncos won one with a limp armed Manning.  Even the Steelers with baby big ben employed the same strategy.  It can be a super bowl winning strategy as history has shown repeatedly.

 

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Wrong on Both!!!!!!  2014 Denver was #2 & dropped in 2015 due to Manning being injured half the season.  Baltimore was 14th in 2000.....  

 

Congratulations you found two of the lowest ranked offenses.  

 

Find me a bottom 10 Offense that made the SB?  The majority of teams making the SB have a top 10 offense.

 

Proves nothing.... Huh????  

 

Quickly SB teams Offensive ranks...

2009 1 vs. 7

2010 10 vs. 12

2011 3 vs. 9

2012 10 vs. 11

2013 1 vs. 9

2014 1 vs. 10

2015 1 vs. 19

2016  1 vs. 3

2017 2 vs. 3

2018 2 vs. 4

 

So in total 11 of 20 were top 4.....  5 more top 10......

 

Yep good/great offenses every year.....

 

So you have total offensive rankings but that isn't what this is about.  You have been railing about passing.  Do you want to go back through and look at passing offense ranks?  Nah probably not but I will for you:

 

09 2v4

10 5v14

11 2v5

12 15v23 (!!!!!)

13 1v26

14 9v27

15 14v24

16 3v4

17 2v13

18 5v8

 

So lets see out of the last 20 super bowl participants; 7 haven't been in the top 10 and 4 were in the bottom 10 of the league.  If you want to use stats at least stay true to your argument and post the correct stats.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

McDermott gutted the offense?

I guess you could say that. 
 

what pro bowl caliber players were lost that weren’t replaced with equal or better players?

 

Shady?  Gore is equivalent IMO 

Zay Jones?

Kelvin Benjamin?

 

Watkins for nobody, drafted almost no skilled players (Zay Jones) & paid for 2nd-3rd string receivers!!!!

[row_33]

a win and i don't care about stats

 

 

a loss and no stats will remove the badness of it all

 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK.  What is the source of this statistic of yours, because I would like to go look it up for myself?  Since you say it so definitively and now acknowledge but one exception, you must have a source.  Thanks.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/300-yard-passing.html

And Football Reference (see above).....

 

Add to that vs. Cincy they put up a graphic that the Bills had gone 35 games without a 300 yard passer & next nearest was 11, meaning everyone else had done it in 2018.....

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/300-yard-passing.html

And Football Reference (see above).....

 

Add to that vs. Cincy they put up a graphic that the Bills had gone 35 games without a 300 yard passer & next nearest was 11, meaning everyone else had done it in 2018.....

 

 

So that is a link to passers, week by week.  Did you actually go through 51 weeks and tabulate by team, to determine that every other team had done it?  If the idea is to give me a list I can check for myself, I could do better going team by team in PFR...at least I could get every game a team plays in a season on one page, so I'd only have to check 96 pages.

 

Your statement was that every other team has had 300 yd passing games every single year for the last 3 years.  That is a different statement than the above.

What is your source? 

 

I don't want to nitpick, but you've been stating this over, and over, and over again in multiple threads, so surely you have a good source, not simply vs. Cincy graphic that doesn't support the statement you actually made, or a list of QB week by week

[Billsfan1972]

30 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

 

I disagree.  Patriots are employing the same exact strategy this year and did at the end of last year.  Until Wilson came into his own, the Seahawks won a superbowl playing that way.  Broncos won one with a limp armed Manning.  Even the Steelers with baby big ben employed the same strategy.  It can be a super bowl winning strategy as history has shown repeatedly.

 

 

So you have total offensive rankings but that isn't what this is about.  You have been railing about passing.  Do you want to go back through and look at passing offense ranks?  Nah probably not but I will for you:

 

09 2v4

10 5v14

11 2v5

12 15v23 (!!!!!)

13 1v26

14 9v27

15 14v24

16 3v4

17 2v13

18 5v8

 

So lets see out of the last 20 super bowl participants; 7 haven't been in the top 10 and 4 were in the bottom 10 of the league.  If you want to use stats at least stay true to your argument and post the correct stats.

 

 

Dig deeper into average scoring & point differential & it too will tell you a different story.  

 

Oh & every QB threw for 300 during the regular season.

[Sundancer]

31 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/300-yard-passing.html

And Football Reference (see above).....

 

Add to that vs. Cincy they put up a graphic that the Bills had gone 35 games without a 300 yard passer & next nearest was 11, meaning everyone else had done it in 2018.....

 

 

The underlined may be true, but it's not the conclusion that can be drawn from the first clause you wrote. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So that is a link to passers, week by week.  Did you actually go through 51 weeks and tabulate by team, to determine that every other team had done it?  If the idea is to give me a list I can check for myself, I could do better going team by team in PFR...at least I could get every game a team plays in a season on one page, so I'd only have to check 96 pages.

 

Your statement was that every other team has had 300 yd passing games every single year for the last 3 years.  That is a different statement than the above.

What is your source? 

 

I don't want to nitpick, but you've been stating this over, and over, and over again in multiple threads, so surely you have a good source, not simply vs. Cincy graphic that doesn't support the statement you actually made, or a list of QB week by week

Tell me a team outside Buffalo who are on their way to their third straight season unable to do it & as I admitted Arizona in 2018 who hasn't.  

 

As said longest streak going into week 3 2019 was 11 after Buffalo's 35 (and they are now at 47) meaning every team had done it in 2018.....  Every team has done it in 2019 & a quick check shows all in 2017 too (except Buffalo).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Tell me a team outside Buffalo who are on their way to their third straight season unable to do it & as I admitted Arizona in 2018 who hasn't.  

 

As said longest streak going into week 3 2019 was 11 after Buffalo's 35 (and they are now at 47) meaning every team had done it in 2018.....  Every team has done it in 2019 & a quick check shows all in 2017 too (except Buffalo).

 

Billsfan1972, that's not how it works.  I'll support any contentions *I* make.  If I'm running around from thread to thread saying "Pi is really 3" rest assured I will be prepared with references and calculations to support that contention. 

 

I have no obligation to support the contentions YOU make.   YOU are the one claiming that every single team in the NFL, except maybe Arizona who hadn't but now you're saying meaning every team had done it in 2018, which means Arizona had, so make up your mind, did they or didn't they?  You back up what YOU say.

 

If you made a quick check, surely it's not too much to ask you to give your source? 

The link you provided, as mentioned, is a week-by-week listing of QB who have thrown for 300 yds.  It would be very difficult to sort through quickly to determine what teams are or are not on, but if you did so and developed a spreadsheet or even a manuscript tally you can photo, I'll accept that.  Also the contention is team, not QB, so if two QB play in a game and pass for a sum of 300 yds, that counts.

 

You may completely be correct, I'm just asking you to support your claim with a source.

[billsrul120]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Tell me a team outside Buffalo who are on their way to their third straight season unable to do it & as I admitted Arizona in 2018 who hasn't.  

 

As said longest streak going into week 3 2019 was 11 after Buffalo's 35 (and they are now at 47) meaning every team had done it in 2018.....  Every team has done it in 2019 & a quick check shows all in 2017 too (except Buffalo).

I find it interesting that you are trying to prove your point by saying that Buffalo is at some distinct advantage because every team in the league has thrown for at least 300 yards at least once almost every season.  

 

If that is the case then the worst, best and every team in between does it and therefore wouldn't suggest that it makes a team better or for that matter worse.

 

I would like to see Josh light a team up though.