Allen slammed on ESPN

[BringBackOrton]

43 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Touched a nerve huh?

 

Look, the simple fact is that the team is not winning with defense. There are teams that do; the 2000 Ravens, 2015 Broncos, and 2019 Pats****** come to mind.

 

The QB has scored more TDs than all but a handful of other QBs in the league. That's decidedly NOT winning with defense. 

 

And for the record regarding non-Bills fan opinions of Allen: I have close friends that are both NE****** and Miami fans; each is unequivocally and thoroughly sold on Allen as a franchise QB.

Oh dear god. Your point this whole time is this team doesn’t win games with their defense because the defense doesn’t score TD’s??

 

Even though the offense is like 23rd in points and the defense is 2nd in points allowed?

 

Was that the case in 2014 too? Mario as a DPOY candidate and those other boys had a top 4 defense, but because they didn’t score (on defense) a lot, it was really Kyle Orton who was the Bills MVP?

 

Is there a Josh Allen gas leak in here?

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Oh dear god. Your point this whole time is this team doesn’t win games with their defense because the defense doesn’t score TD’s??

 

Even though the offense is like 23rd in points and the defense is 2nd in points allowed?

 

Was that the case in 2014 too? Mario as a DPOY candidate and those other boys had a top 4 defense, but because they didn’t score (on defense) a lot, it was really Kyle Orton who was the Bills MVP?

 

Is there a Josh Allen gas leak in here?

 

Broseph, take a pill and relax.

 

The point should be really easy to understand: when the QB is among the leaders at his position in TDs scored, and the team has a grand total of 1 non-offensive TDs (that coming on an onside kick in a decided contest), you can't exactly claim that the team is "winning with defense".

 

Winning with defense is the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 going 5 games without an offensive TD. Winning with defense is the 2015 Broncos overcoming a 1:2 TD:INT ratio from a broken Peyton Manning.

 

Holding teams to less than 17 points is wonderful. It wins you zero games if the offense doesn't put up more than that.

 

Maybe you see the distinction and maybe you don't, but either way it's very easy to understand.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Broseph, take a pill and relax.

 

The point should be really easy to understand: when the QB is among the leaders at his position in TDs scored, and the team has a grand total of 1 non-offensive TDs (that coming on an onside kick in a decided contest), you can't exactly claim that the team is "winning with defense".

 

Winning with defense is the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 going 5 games without an offensive TD. Winning with defense is the 2015 Broncos overcoming a 1:2 TD:INT ratio from a broken Peyton Manning.

 

Holding teams to less than 17 points is wonderful. It wins you zero games if the offense doesn't put up more than that.

 

Maybe you see the distinction and maybe you don't, but either way it's very easy to understand.

Incredibly, you point to the QB TD totals instead of points scored by our offense, in a debate about POINTS SCORED BY OUR OFFENSE.

 

It’s just sooo intellectually lazy and obvious. 

 

Heres another stat for you. Our offensive units field position ranking is 7th in the NFL. Who decides offensive field position? The defense and special teams mostly, no? Incredibly, the offense (including Josh), squander that to the tune of 25th in yards and 24th in points per drive, and 20th in time per drive.

 

Meanwhile, the defense is 11th in field position, but is SECOND in points per drive. And 11th in time per drive. The defense quite literally gets the offense the ball in great spots, doesn’t allow terribly long drives and doesn’t allow lots of points. And the offense is STILL bad.

 

Your opinion regarding this matter is clearly flawed. You’re using some weird pseudo definition to defend a point that clearly falls on its face with even a cursory examination of the facts. 

[thebandit27]

19 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Incredibly, you point to the QB TD totals instead of points scored by our offense, in a debate about POINTS SCORED BY OUR OFFENSE.

 

It’s just sooo intellectually lazy and obvious. 

 

Heres another stat for you. Our offensive units field position ranking is 7th in the NFL. Who decides offensive field position? The defense and special teams mostly, no? Incredibly, the offense (including Josh), squander that to the tune of 25th in yards and 24th in points per drive, and 20th in time per drive.

 

Meanwhile, the defense is 11th in field position, but is SECOND in points per drive. And 11th in time per drive. The defense quite literally gets the offense the ball in great spots, doesn’t allow terribly long drives and doesn’t allow lots of points. And the offense is STILL bad.

 

Your opinion regarding this matter is clearly flawed. You’re using some weird pseudo definition to defend a point that clearly falls on its face with even a cursory examination of the facts. 

 

Ok then, let's simplify it for you...here is a comprehensive list of every game the team would've won without the contributions of the offense:

 

 

 

 

 

[TPS]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Pat Mahomes almost 5,000 yards last year and nearly carried the 2nd worst defense in the nfl to the SB.  Passing yards is not a bad thing.  Why do Bills fans have such an outdated way of thinking?

It was not meant as a comment against passing yards. Just pointing out having a prolific passing game isn’t necessary for winning it all. Ask the Rams. 

However, Give allen a true #1 and I’m sure he’ll hit some 300 yard games and make people happy....

[BuffaloBill963]

On 12/21/2019 at 2:13 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

And Dan hit the nail on the head (as wrong as he was about Allen & the 4th quarter).....  No one is turning on the Bills (outside their & the opponents fans) Sunday @ 1:00 pm when there are 8 games to see a 17-16 game.....

 

BTW opposite the Baltimore game was a yawner NO vs. SF, which we know would have upset McD & his disciples here.....

So when building a team they should care about the entertainment value as determined by casual fans who don’t know and appreciate football?

[BringBackOrton]

17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Ok then, let's simplify it for you...here is a comprehensive list of every game the team would've won without the contributions of the offense:

 

 

 

 

 

Incredible. You proved that you need to score points to win games in the NFL. Any team that scores even a FG on offense is clearly being carried by them.

 

Here’s a fun stat:

 

The 2015 Broncos averaged more PPG on offense than the 2019 Bills. And the 2019 Bills averaged less PPG allowed on defense than the 2015 Broncos.

 

Wasnt that your team that DEFINED a defense carrying the offense?

[thebandit27]

12 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Incredible. You proved that you need to score points to win games in the NFL. Any team that scores even a FG on offense is clearly being carried by them.

 

Here’s a fun stat:

 

The 2015 Broncos averaged more PPG on offense than the 2019 Bills. And the 2019 Bills averaged less PPG allowed on defense than the 2015 Broncos.

 

Wasnt that your team that DEFINED a defense carrying the offense?

 

No, no they didn't average more offensive points.

 

The team scored 355 points...but,

get this: the defense scored 35 and the STs scored 14. So...yeah, they scored pretty much the same as

Buffalo has through 15 games.

 

But even at that minutiae, you're missing it. The Denver defense scored the deciding points in 4 games that season. Four games in which the defense scored the game-winning TD. Defense. Winning games.

 

There's a difference. If you don't get it at this stage there isn't much more I can do.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

So when building a team they should care about the entertainment value as determined by casual fans who don’t know and appreciate football?

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

Edited December 24, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Johnnycage46]

19 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

Your posts are not fun to read.  Are you actually a Bills fan?  Serious question.  Because you seem very upset that the team is in the playoffs.  What more can the team do for you to make you happy? 

[BuffaloBill963]

49 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

I love watching them and absolutely love watching our defense on point especially. I also understand where they are in the development process on offense.

 

I’m not the 18 year girlfriend of some football fan that the nfl apparently wants to appeal to. That’s what you come off as w this argument.

[london_bills]

Just something to mention..

 

There is generally a change of belief in allen I sense from this game. Even if you believed in him before, the long pass was missing. 

 

I feel like people feel more sure of him now after the Pats game. He hit a couple of deep balls in this game which we're a big thing and was an arguement against him beforehand. 

 

Before this game he hadn't hit these with alot of regularity as we all know so that was form of monkey off his back.  It's a big thing to hit those and it was great to see. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by london_bills

[BringBackOrton]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No, no they didn't average more offensive points.

 

The team scored 355 points...but,

get this: the defense scored 35 and the STs scored 14. So...yeah, they scored pretty much the same as

Buffalo has through 15 games.

 

But even at that minutiae, you're missing it. The Denver defense scored the deciding points in 4 games that season. Four games in which the defense scored the game-winning TD. Defense. Winning games.

 

There's a difference. If you don't get it at this stage there isn't much more I can do.

Wait wait wait!

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Ok then, let's simplify it for you...here is a comprehensive list of every game the team would've won without the contributions of the offense:

 

 

 

 

 

Can we play this fun game with the 2015 Broncos? I’ll start:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the defense didn’t carry the team after all that year. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[Dr.Sack]

ESPN is right about one thing Josh Allen is the most inaccurate starting QB in the NFL. Outside of that stats we get a range of opinions.  I think Allen simply doesn’t read the defense early enough & doesn’t get to his hot read early enough. Instead he stays in the pocket or scrambles trying to find deeper patterns developing. There is no shame in getting the ball out early on 1st or 2nd down passes.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

I love watching them and absolutely love watching our defense on point especially. I also understand where they are in the development process on offense.

 

I’m not the 18 year girlfriend of some football fan that the nfl apparently wants to appeal to. That’s what you come off as w this argument.

Agreed. You don’t go from 31st in passing to 10th in one offseason. I’m enjoying watching  them this season while still wanting the offense to improve. If some fans want to call the Bills boring, Ill take boring if that means wins and playoff games. It beats watching a team with lots of 300 yard passing games , but few wins and your thoughts turning to the draft by Thanksgiving. We’ve certainly been there before , and for far too long. 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

In your opinion.  And we’re sick of it.  There are some like me who like watching good defense, or a good running play.  And I watched every game OJ played and if you didn’t think he was an exciting football player you’re nuts.

 

We are sick of you hijacking thread after thread after thread to continue to spout off about what is or is not exciting football.  We are tired of you going off all the time about the necessity of a 300 yard passing game when you have been shown dozens of times it does not correlate with wins.  And we are especially sick of you pledging your fandom for the team when you have made it abundantly clear you care more about being what you call entertained than having a winning Bills team.

 

You don’t like the way they play that’s too damn bad.  Then don’t watch.  Or find an more exciting team that entertains you.  Or go to the movies.  Just quit trying to make this your personal chat room to promote your agenda time and again. 

 

Mods, am I wrong?

[thebandit27]

6 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Wait wait wait!

Can we play this fun game with the 2015 Broncos? I’ll start:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the defense didn’t carry the team after all that year. 

 

Good job springing the trap on yourself. The next most logical step is this: remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2019 Bills, and their record doesn't change. Remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2015 Broncos, and they lose an additional 4 regular season games. Haven't looked at the playoffs, but their first TD in the Super Bowl was defensive as well.

[BringBackOrton]

58 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Good job springing the trap on yourself. The next most logical step is this: remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2019 Bills, and their record doesn't change. Remove all non-offensive TDs from the 2015 Broncos, and they lose an additional 4 regular season games. Haven't looked at the playoffs, but their first TD in the Super Bowl was defensive as well.

Spring the trap? You didn’t even try to fill in my chart.

 

Please let me know what games in 2015 the Broncos would have won without their offensive contributions.

 

You can’t jump to the “next most logical step” without doing your part!

 

In the meantime, I’m gonna alert the NFL that their record keeping is wrong. Josh Allen contributed 2 TD’s in the Pats game and Tom Brady only contributed 1! Our QB scored more points and number of touchdowns than their QB did. That means we must have actually won the game (carried by our offense of course.)

Edited December 24, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Spring the trap? You didn’t even try to fill in my chart.

 

Please let me know what games in 2015 the Broncos would have won without their offensive contributions.

 

You can’t jump to the “next most logical step” without doing your part!

 

In the meantime, I’m gonna alert the NFL that their record keeping is wrong. Josh Allen contributed 2 TD’s in the Pats game and Tom Brady only contributed 1! Our QB scored more points and number of touchdowns than their QB did. That means we must have actually won the game (carried by our offense of course.)

 

Ok man. Whatever you say. The defense is the only reason that the team has won any games.

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

 

You know what's really not a fun to watch???   Watching your team lose 9,10 or 11 games season after season for almost 20 years. 

 

I'm not a big Beane/McDermott fan, and I remain skeptical about the team's commitment to building a team truly good enough to compete seriously for the Super Bowl, but that's an issue for the off season  It doesn't diminish how great it feels as a fan to FINALLY have a Bills team that's not only competitive in every game, but also wins most of the time ... or a team that again has "nothing to play for" in week 17, but finally for the right reason: a clinched playoff berth.

 

How can you NOT find a December game in Foxborough with playoff seedings on the line for both teams entertaining, especially when the Bills not only played the defending Super Bowl champion Patriots close but also had a real chance to tie the game in the closing seconds???