OIG FISA Report Discussion and the real reason for the FBI Mar-a-Lago raid

[John Adams]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You made the conclusion that nothing wrong was done. 

 

Link?

 

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

That everything was disproven. 

 

Link?

 

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You were wrong. Are wrong. And are going to look REALLY silly. 

 

When the truth comes out on the 12th?

 

 

[snafu]

6 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

You do realize the report leads with its conclusion, don't you? I, uh, quoted it. 

 

DR will spin this into a win. Have no fear. The next big thing will be the REAL big thing. He's serious this time. 

 

No -- like I said, I didn't see it.  I DON'T know that it leads with its conclusion.

Should I stop reading it at that point?  Isn't it, uh, 500 pages or so?

Should I just wait for the NYT oped tomorrow?

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[Nanker]

John Durham said he doesn’t agree with this report’s conclusions. 

[John Adams]

Just now, DC Tom said:

One interesting thing to come out of this that's going to be completely glossed over in the "Orange Man Bad" debate: the FISA application process had really weak safeguards.  One would hope that a secret surveillance warrant process would have stronger requirements for issuing the warrant...but apparently, agents could easily cherry-pick the evidence they wanted to present with little in the way of supervision or oversight.

 

That's encouraging.  Just what I want in a secret surveillance warrant process.

 

My early takeaway too. The report reads like, "They did a really ***** job but it's a bad process and they followed it pretty much like it's always followed."

[DC Tom]

Just now, snafu said:

 

No -- like I said, I didn't see it.  I DON'T know that it leads with its conclusion.

Should I stop reading it at that point?  Isn't it, uh, 500 pages or so?

Should I just wait for the NYT oped tomorrow?

 

 

It leads with an executive summary, like all 500-page government reports.  The end of the executive summary lists the IG's recommendations.  Most of those are procedural; those that aren't I quoted - investigate Ohr, and review everyone else's professional conduct.  

[snafu]

On 12/8/2019 at 10:03 AM, snafu said:

 

At a minimum, Ohr and Comey (and anyone else who laid their hands on the Page FISA renewals) should be cooked gooses. 

 

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/judiciary/upload/2018-02-28 CEG LG to DOJ OIG (referral).pdf

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Looks like some people are going to get it in the back of the neck for their stupidity, though.

 

But not Ohr.  He's going to get ass-*****.

 

Saw that one coming.

 

[Deranged Rhino]

  

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

One interesting thing to come out of this that's going to be completely glossed over in the "Orange Man Bad" debate: the FISA application process had really weak safeguards.  One would hope that a secret surveillance warrant process would have stronger requirements for issuing the warrant...but apparently, agents could easily cherry-pick the evidence they wanted to present with little in the way of supervision or oversight.

 

That's encouraging.  Just what I want in a secret surveillance warrant process.

"We don't know nuthin' about nuthin', but take our word for it!" is less than inspiring. 

[Nanker]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

“The Inspector General’s report now makes clear that the FBI launched an intrusive investigation of a U.S. presidential campaign on the thinnest of suspicions that, in my view, were insufficient to justify the steps taken.  It is also clear that, from its inception, the evidence produced by the investigation was consistently exculpatory.  Nevertheless, the investigation and surveillance was pushed forward for the duration of the campaign and deep into President Trump’s administration.  In the rush to obtain and maintain FISA surveillance of Trump campaign associates, FBI officials misled the FISA court, omitted critical exculpatory facts from their filings, and suppressed or ignored information negating the reliability of their principal source.  The Inspector General found the explanations given for these actions unsatisfactory.  While most of the misconduct identified by the Inspector General was committed in 2016 and 2017 by a small group of now-former FBI officials, the malfeasance and misfeasance detailed in the Inspector General’s report reflects a clear abuse of the FISA process.”

[DC Tom]

Just now, John Adams said:

 

My early takeaway too. The report reads like, "They did a really ***** job but it's a bad process and they followed it pretty much like it's always followed."

 

I got the impression they followed it worse than usual - some people were professionally negligent (though not maliciously) with their confirmation bias, overweighting questionable evidence because it fit their preconceived notions.  

 

That's rather normal in investigations, of course...which is why processes should be in place to account for it; which, in this case, were not in place.  Still amounts to bad process, but some people should still get their asses kicked for professional misconduct.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

  

 

 

Could it be more? Barr and Durham also have looked into the CIA which Horowitz did not have any purview over. I assume those two know the whole story, including the genesis of this, whereas Horowitz does not. 

 

[John Adams]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

I got the impression they followed it worse than usual - some people were professionally negligent (though not maliciously) with their confirmation bias, overweighting questionable evidence because it fit their preconceived notions.  

 

That's rather normal in investigations, of course...which is why processes should be in place to account for it; which, in this case, were not in place.  Still amounts to bad process, but some people should still get their asses kicked for professional misconduct.

 

They will. Barr's last sentence today is not for nothing. 

 

"With respect to DOJ personnel discussed in the report, the Department will follow all appropriate processes and procedures, including as to any potential disciplinary action."

Edited December 9, 2019 by John Adams

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

  

 

 

 

 

But we don't need to pay attention to the Durham statement,

 

Because you relayed that information in a tweet.

 

?

 

 

.

[snafu]

2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I got the impression they followed it worse than usual - some people were professionally negligent (though not maliciously) with their confirmation bias, overweighting questionable evidence because it fit their preconceived notions.  

 

That's rather normal in investigations, of course...which is why processes should be in place to account for it; which, in this case, were not in place.  Still amounts to bad process, but some people should still get their asses kicked for professional misconduct.

 

 

The problems -- to me -- are in the renewals.  Once the warrant needed to be renewed, they were already aware that the Steele report was worse than useless.

 

 

[John Adams]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

But we don't need to pay attention to the Durham statement,

 

Because you relayed that information in a tweet.

 

?

 

 

.

 

The copyright infringer high-fiving the re-Tweeter-in-Chief about a hearsay Tweet that doesn't even quote the source.

 

Yay, us. 

 

(Not that I doubt her summary.)

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

They will. Barr's last sentence today is not for nothing. 

 

"With respect to DOJ personnel discussed in the report, the Department will follow all appropriate processes and procedures, including as to any potential disciplinary action."

 

And the recommendations in the report, and the FBI's response to such (at the end of the report).

 

Also interesting: the FBI may have tried to use the Presidential transition briefings for investigative purposes.  I wish that were somehow against the rules...but there was no rule against interrogating the Presidential Transition Team during a transition briefing.  It seems like that would just be common sense to me: don't bastardize the transition for a half-assed counter-intelligence investigation, but apparently we need a rule for that now.

[3rdnlng]

Remember people, most if not all of the bad guys have already been removed from the FBI or DOJ and Horowitz could not force them to be questioned by the OIG. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

And the recommendations in the report, and the FBI's response to such (at the end of the report).

 

Also interesting: the FBI may have tried to use the Presidential transition briefings for investigative purposes.  I wish that were somehow against the rules...but there was no rule against interrogating the Presidential Transition Team during a transition briefing.  It seems like that would just be common sense to me: don't bastardize the transition for a half-assed counter-intelligence investigation, but apparently we need a rule for that now.

 

As stated for weeks leading up to this: procedural changes is what the OIG is really for. The report will get unimpeachable evidence into the public sphere (there's loads of it in here that shatter pre-existing narratives/lies pushed by the media and the coup plotters), raise the need for procedural changes -- but only focused on DOJ/FBI/FISA (not even FISC, just the FISA process).

 

--- Barr/Durham are the hammer. 

 

[BillsFanNC]

9 minutes ago, Foxx said:

just a question here before we get too far along in the threads...

 

i don't know a whole lot about  @BillsFanNC but an he be trusted not to delete the thread if it doesn't go the way he wants? again, i am not intending to disparage him/her in any way, i just know from past experience that this has happened before with certain posters and i don't want to lose the posterity this will contain.

 

Lol. I never intended this to be the official thread about the FISA report. My intention was for it to exactly what I stated in my first post, to be a discussion about only the contents of the report by folks who have actually read it.  My mistake was posting it too soon, I should have waited until after it was released.

 

I'm not going to delete anything, but again I assumed there would be a different thread on the FISA report that would devolve into the way things typically go around here. If a mod wants to move all of this content to a different named thread I'm fine with that too.

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Lol. I never intended this to be the official thread about the FISA report. My intention was for it to exactly what I stated in my first post, to be a discussion about only the contents of the report by folks who have actually read it.  My mistake was posting it too soon, I should have waited until after it was released.

 

I'm not going to delete anything, but again I assumed there would be a different thread on the FISA report that would devolve into the way things typically go around here. If a mod wants to move all of this content to a different named thread I'm fine with that too.

your word is good enough, i've no reason to suspect otherwise.

 

thanks

Edited December 9, 2019 by Foxx

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Lol. I never intended this to be the official thread about the FISA report. My intention was for it to exactly what I stated in my first post, to be a discussion about only the contents of the report by folks who have actually read it.  My mistake was posting it too soon, I should have waited until after it was released.

 

I'm not going to delete anything, but again I assumed there would be a different thread on the FISA report that would devolve into the way things typically go around here. If a mod wants to move all of this content to a different named thread I'm fine with that too.

Could you please add those two links to your OP?

 

[B-Man]

17 significant errors or omissions on the Carter Page FISA application, but Horowitz found no political bias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BillsFanNC]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Could you please add those two links to your OP?

 

I will when able yes, I'm driving back to office in a few minutes.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, B-Man said:

17 significant errors or omissions on the Carter Page FISA application, but Horowitz found no political bias.

 

And, as the report states up front, the OIG did not think it their job to question the decisions made.  

 

Clockwork. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[B-Man]

Quick reminder:

 

 

Significant — Durham widely respected, has broader mandate & more info than IG

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, B-Man said:

Quick reminder:

 

 

Significant — Durham widely respected, has broader mandate & more info than IG

 

And I'm sure he just released a statement to rebuke the media reports because he's found nothing wrong or criminal during his investigation... 

 

... Oh, wait, it already shifted to a CRIMINAL probe. 

 

(But JA and others will say that today proves that nothing illegal went down, that Russia Collusion is still a legit fact, and that there was nothing dangerous about the FBI getting involved in a political campaign -- because they've made up their minds YEARS ago and refuse to change it, new information be damned. What do you call people like that? Right, NPCs)

 

[Tiberius]

41 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

One interesting thing to come out of this that's going to be completely glossed over in the "Orange Man Bad" debate: the FISA application process had really weak safeguards.  One would hope that a secret surveillance warrant process would have stronger requirements for issuing the warrant...but apparently, agents could easily cherry-pick the evidence they wanted to present with little in the way of supervision or oversight.

 

That's encouraging.  Just what I want in a secret surveillance warrant process.

Did the new one Trump signed fix that? No 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[keepthefaith]

I've just read about 35 pages of the report including much of executive summary and conclusions/recommendations at end of report.  Horowitz comes off as an auditor which he is.  He's looking at procedures so his conclusions are mostly about sloppy work and how to clean that up with you know, training. 

 

 

[Foxx]

https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/status/1204107001606889472

 

[Deranged Rhino]

First and second tweet -- is spot on. This thing is damning and I'm only 1/3rd of the way through it. 

Yet the normal NPCs are eager to rush down here to the basement and swear that it's not damning without reading a word of it. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Deranged Rhino

[Deranged Rhino]

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Much more to that thread. 

[John Adams]

53 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

(But JA and others will say that today proves that nothing illegal went down

 

You're a moran.

 

Quote

, that Russia Collusion is still a legit fact,

 

See above. 

 

Quote

and that there was nothing dangerous about the FBI getting involved in a political campaign

 

See above.

 

I never said there was collusion. Never said nothing illegal went down. Never said there's nothing dangerous about the FBI getting involved. 

 

You are a liar, but that's known. 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by John Adams

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Basically, a bunch of people ***** up, and engaged in wishful thinking.

 

Whole lotta nothing.

Did you expect anything else?  I didn't.

[Deranged Rhino]

It's your record. 

 

You own it. 

 

You can run from it, but all it exposes is that you're every bit the coward I know you to be.