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Top 4 passing QB - No winning records

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9 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:


The vast majority would, although 2.5 TDs is a better goal.

 

Except, he hasn’t- yet.
 3/12 in 250 yard games and barely over 215 yards average. 

 

Fortunately, he has a Top 5 D to assist him this year. 
 

That said, he looked like a true field General against Dallas. It may be coming.

I hope it is and want him to be a long-term Bill.....  

 

People love to go on and on about me using the 300 yard measure.  It is pathetic that they have not managed it in 45 games (Game 15 of 2016), which is what I unapologetically will keep saying. 

 

How is it that EVERY NFL TEAM  has passed for 300 yards in 2017, 2018 & 2019 except the Bills????

 

McD can say whatever he wants, but it comes down to him.  Remember he's the one who named Peterman his starter, not once but twice😂!!!!!!

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I mean I would love for him to have 300 and 400 yard games.  Just like I would love for Singletary to have 150+ in every game too.  But I'm not going to complain about that if our offense is moving the ball in which they are.  They are moving the chains on first down, scoring in the redzone and getting bigger chunk plays.  

 

Allen has averaged about 230 yards passing in his last 3 games which is roughly about 3,600 yards in a 16 game season.  Add that in with 500 rushing yards....that's a headache for the defense.  Allen is a dual threat who is now (hopefully) starting to reach his potential.  I really think this is just the beginning.

And I agree 100% the last three weeks have been fun & the only time this year where games were decided prior to the 4th.

Edited by Billsfan1972

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7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I mean I would love for him to have 300 and 400 yard games.  Just like I would love for Singletary to have 150+ in every game too.  But I'm not going to complain about that if our offense is moving the ball in which they are.  They are moving the chains on first down, scoring in the redzone and getting bigger chunk plays.  

 

Allen has averaged about 230 yards passing in his last 3 games which is roughly about 3,600 yards in a 16 game season.  Add that in with 500 rushing yards....that's a headache for the defense.  Allen is a dual threat who is now (hopefully) starting to reach his potential.  I really think this is just the beginning.

 

Allen is a dual threat and has been doing well in both areas - and improving almost every week since the NE game. Matter of fact, he has been comparable to Jackson over the same 8 game stretch:

 

PASSING

                  G     Cmp    Att    Inc    Cmp%    Yds      TD    Int    Rate    Sk    Yds    Y/A    AY/A
Jackson    8    127    188    61      67.55    1422    15      3    109.8    11     42    7.56    8.44
Allen          8    146    235    89      62.13    1688    13      2      98.7     18     95    7.18    7.91

 

RUSHING

                     Att    Yds    Y/A    TD    Fmb    FL    FF    FR
Jackson    104    739    7.11     6       5    1    0    2       
Allen            62    299    4.82     5        7    1    0    3

 

He is getting better and will continue to get better


 

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5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I hope it is and want him to be a long-term Bill.....  

 

People love to go on and on about me using the 300 yard measure.  It is pathetic that they have not managed it in 45 games (Game 15 of 2016), which is what I unapologetically will keep saying. 

 

How is it that EVERY NFL TEAM  has passed for 300 yards in 2017, 2018 & 2019 except the Bills????

 

McD can say whatever he wants, but it comes down to him.  Remember he's the one who named Peterman his starter, not once but twice😂!!!!!!

And I agree 100% the last three weeks have been fun & the only time this year where games were decided prior to the 4th.

 

How is it that even with our terrible offense under McDermott without a 300 yard passer, the Bills have had a WR with more catches every year than Sammy Watkins since 2017?  Especially when he played in the top passing offenses with the Rams and Chiefs????

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16 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I hope it is and want him to be a long-term Bill.....  

 

People love to go on and on about me using the 300 yard measure.  It is pathetic that they have not managed it in 45 games (Game 15 of 2016), which is what I unapologetically will keep saying. 

 

How is it that EVERY NFL TEAM  has passed for 300 yards in 2017, 2018 & 2019 except the Bills????

 

McD can say whatever he wants, but it comes down to him.  Remember he's the one who named Peterman his starter, not once but twice😂!!!!!!

And I agree 100% the last three weeks have been fun & the only time this year where games were decided prior to the 4th.

i wonder why.

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19 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Allen is a dual threat and has been doing well in both areas - and improving almost every week since the NE game. Matter of fact, he has been comparable to Jackson over the same 8 game stretch:

 

PASSING

                  G     Cmp    Att    Inc    Cmp%    Yds      TD    Int    Rate    Sk    Yds    Y/A    AY/A
Jackson    8    127    188    61      67.55    1422    15      3    109.8    11     42    7.56    8.44
Allen          8    146    235    89      62.13    1688    13      2      98.7     18     95    7.18    7.91

 

RUSHING

                     Att    Yds    Y/A    TD    Fmb    FL    FF    FR
Jackson    104    739    7.11     6       5    1    0    2       
Allen            62    299    4.82     5        7    1    0    3

 

He is getting better and will continue to get better


 

As I predicted & want him to be.  Lamar is the flavour of the day.....  Frankly I am more impressed with Allen & what he does under this offense.

 

Can we agree on this?????😂

Edited by Billsfan1972

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26 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I hope it is and want him to be a long-term Bill.....  

 

People love to go on and on about me using the 300 yard measure.  It is pathetic that they have not managed it in 45 games (Game 15 of 2016), which is what I unapologetically will keep saying. 

 

How is it that EVERY NFL TEAM  has passed for 300 yards in 2017, 2018 & 2019 except the Bills????

 

McD can say whatever he wants, but it comes down to him.  Remember he's the one who named Peterman his starter, not once but twice😂!!!!!!

And I agree 100% the last three weeks have been fun & the only time this year where games were decided prior to the 4th.

You can keep ranting unapologetically about this if you want.  I'm not sure if it's more amusing or sad at this point, but just go right ahead.  You can keep doing so, and keep looking silly, but that's your right to do so.

 

The thing that we all recognize, that is what we keep trying to tell you, is that it doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters in the NFL are wins.  And there are different ways to do so.  The Bills have a very balanced offense right now, a good defense, and that equates to a winning record.  Period.  Dead stop.  End of story.

 

It does not matter a hill of beans what has gone on the last 45 games or whatever.  it does not matter what happened 45 games ago with a different QB and different players on offense and so on.  The only person this seems to matter to on this board is you, and that's because you don't happen to find it "entertaining"  football.  You would apparently rather be entertained than see winning football.  Again that's your right, I suppose, but the continual ranting about this just to assuage your sensibilities is getting ridiculous.  Personally, I find old school football with a power rushing attack and a defense that crushes the life out of the other team enormously entertaining.  But I'm not coming on here repeatedly ranting about how ridiculous it is that we don't have a 200 yard rushing day every game, or that the D doesn't hold teams to less that say 14 points a game. 

 

What will happen when Josh does throw for 300 yards?  First. based on all the data that has been provided and reprovided and reprovided again it's about 50:50 whether that would be in a win vs. a loss.  Are you really going to come on here and say you're satisfied he threw for 300 in a loss?  If you do, then you really have issues.  If they win, I would put money on what comes next.  The next thing will be: Sure, he  did it once.  But he has to show he's capable of doing it all the time.  Even though, for the umpteenth time, it means nothing when it comes to the only thing that matter:  wins.

 

Does it come down to McD?  Sure it does.  He's the coach that has them at 9-3 right now.  He's the coach with a coaching staff that has developed a sound D, a young QB starting to show he's the answer,  he's the coach that along with a pretty savvy GM retooled the O line, brought in some great FW WRs, and on and on.  How many teams in the NFL would love to have a coach and GM like we have right now?  Many.

 

And yet, because you're not entertained enough it's bad?  Like I say, keep ranting unapologetically if you want.  The rest of us care about wins, and we're just delighted thank you.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

As I predicted & want him to be.  Lamar is the flavour of the day.....  Frankly I am more impressed with Allen & what he does under this offense.

 

Can we agree on this?????😂

 

Yes we can :thumbsup:

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Again why are expectations so low here?????

 

I'll take Brees (81-45), Brady (88-20) & Aaron Rogers (45-20) record when throwing for 300 yards......

 

45 games!!!!!!  Geez is that not long enough?????  

Edited by Billsfan1972

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i'm starting to think that this can't possibly be serious at this point.  is a certain poster just doing this for entertainment?

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29 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again why are expectations so low here?????

 

I'll take Brees (81-45), Brady (88-20) & Aaron Rogers (45-20) record when throwing for 300 yards......

 

45 games!!!!!!  Geez is that not long enough?????  

 

You do realize that the points are scored when the ball crosses the goal line or goes through the uprights, right?

 

Matt Stafford throws for 5,000 every flipping year and guess what .... the Lions suck every flipping year.

 

You're just being silly.  You've dipped into this well a few too many times and now the jig is up.  It happens.  Rookie mistake.  You'll need to find a new shtick, now. 

 

Best of luck.

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44 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again why are expectations so low here?????

 

I'll take Brees (81-45), Brady (88-20) & Aaron Rogers (45-20) record when throwing for 300 yards......

 

45 games!!!!!!  Geez is that not long enough?????  

The current leader in the NFL MVP race who people think cannot be stopped by modern defenses has had one 300 career passing day, against the Dolphins, on 15 completions.

 

 

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Most if not all are not saying you you need 300 yards at all cost. If your offense is playing well and dominating the game then great whether you throw for 100 or 400 yards. The point was discussed more in that the Bills offense has struggled at times AND Allen was not putting up the yards. That is not the be all end all but is a concern. Especially in some games when he is throwing 40-50 times.

 

Luckily Daboll has seen the light as of late and realized Allen is not ready to be the 40-50 attempts for 300 yd QB and needs a more balanced approach to be successful. That is what many were clamoring for all along. Play to Allen strengths at this point in his career, which is best suited for a balanced attack resulting in him throwing for closer to 200 than 300 and ideally running for another 50 from Allen and 100 from our RB's. 

 

So both sides are right. No Allen does not need to throw for 300 yds to win. Yes Allen did fail to throw for 300 yds when he was being asked to do so. This offense is built around the run and a balanced attack, not 100% by design but also due to Allen's early career limitations. 

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2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Most if not all are not saying you you need 300 yards at all cost. If your offense is playing well and dominating the game then great whether you throw for 100 or 400 yards. The point was discussed more in that the Bills offense has struggled at times AND Allen was not putting up the yards. That is not the be all end all but is a concern. Especially in some games when he is throwing 40-50 times.

 

Luckily Daboll has seen the light as of late and realized Allen is not ready to be the 40-50 attempts for 300 yd QB and needs a more balanced approach to be successful. That is what many were clamoring for all along. Play to Allen strengths at this point in his career, which is best suited for a balanced attack resulting in him throwing for closer to 200 than 300 and ideally running for another 50 from Allen and 100 from our RB's. 

 

So both sides are right. No Allen does not need to throw for 300 yds to win. Yes Allen did fail to throw for 300 yds when he was being asked to do so. This offense is built around the run and a balanced attack, not 100% by design but also due to Allen's early career limitations. 

 

He has had one game this year where he attempted over 40 passes (41) and that was the Cleveland game. If you remember correctly, he led his team to the go ahead TD with 5:26 left in the game. The defense subsequently gave up an 82 yard TD drive, where they gave up plays of 13, 21, and 24 yards. Allen then, in the last 1:44 of the game, led the team from their own 25 to the Cleveland 35 for a shot at a winning FG. He didn't have a particularly good game and neither did the rest of the team. But, he didn't need 300 yds. He stepped up when they needed him to while the defense and the kicker did not.

 

He has never been asked to throw for over 300 yds. He has been asked to lead his team to a go ahead score when behind and he has responded over and over.

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1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again why are expectations so low here?????

 

I'll take Brees (81-45), Brady (88-20) & Aaron Rogers (45-20) record when throwing for 300 yards......

 

45 games!!!!!!  Geez is that not long enough?????  

 

Anyone here would take Brees, Brady and Rodgers. They are HOF QBs. They also have pretty good records in non 300 yard games.

 

The vast majority of 300 yard games are not by HOF QBs and the record for the last 45 300 yard games in the NFL is 21 wins and 24 losses.

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34 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

He has had one game this year where he attempted over 40 passes (41) and that was the Cleveland game. If you remember correctly, he led his team to the go ahead TD with 5:26 left in the game. The defense subsequently gave up an 82 yard TD drive, where they gave up plays of 13, 21, and 24 yards. Allen then, in the last 1:44 of the game, led the team from their own 25 to the Cleveland 35 for a shot at a winning FG. He didn't have a particularly good game and neither did the rest of the team. But, he didn't need 300 yds. He stepped up when they needed him to while the defense and the kicker did not.

 

He has never been asked to throw for over 300 yds. He has been asked to lead his team to a go ahead score when behind and he has responded over and over.

Why argue this? Everyone has eyes and has seen Allen struggle. Admit that and move on. He has improve and is still improving, but lets not pretend he has chosen not to throw for 300 yards or done enough etc. If he played better in games there would be no need for any late game drives, etc. 

 

And my 40-50 was an exaggeration. But he has thrown the ball 30+ times in 7 games. 

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7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Anyone here would take Brees, Brady and Rodgers. They are HOF QBs. They also have pretty good records in non 300 yard games.

 

The vast majority of 300 yard games are not by HOF QBs and the record for the last 45 300 yard games in the NFL is 21 wins and 24 losses.

Brady has thrown for 300 yds 5 times this year. Did it 5x last year and 6 the year before.

Rodgers 3x this year and 4x last year

Brees 3x this year (out half year), 6x last year

Mahomes 6x this year, 10x last year

Wilson 3x this year, 1x last year

 

I could keep listing QB's. Point is not the number of times or using this as the measure of greatness. But the fact that Allen is at 0 is meaningful. He plays more consistent in a number of games this year and he easily passes 300 yds. It is not by design he did not hit 300, rather his inconsistent play in those games. That is who he is at this point. The Bills have adjusted and are back to using his strengths. 

 

 

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Looks like this thread has taken on a life of it's own, but to the OP:

 

The top 5 passing offenses in the league this year are:

 

  1. Dallas - #4 in points per drive
  2. Atlanta - #12 in points per drive
  3. Kansas City - #2 in points per drive
  4. Tampa Bay - #10 in points per drive
  5. LA Rams - #19 in points per drive

3/5 are top 10 offenses and 1 of the remaining is just a tad outside.

 

That's pretty pretty good.

 

Edit: Just want to make it clear I'm not saying Allen needs 300 passing yards in a game or anything. Simply pointing out that the best passing offenses pretty closely coincide with the best offenses.

Edited by DCOrange

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23 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Why argue this? Everyone has eyes and has seen Allen struggle. Admit that and move on. He has improve and is still improving, but lets not pretend he has chosen not to throw for 300 yards or done enough etc. If he played better in games there would be no need for any late game drives, etc. 

 

And my 40-50 was an exaggeration. But he has thrown the ball 30+ times in 7 games. 

 

I have never said Allen hasn't had his struggles. This 300 yard obsession of yours and Billsfan1972 is ridiculous. Not only did you exagerate, you used an example completely out of context in your constant need to diminish what Allen does to fit your narrative.

 

Over the last 8 games, among all QBs, he is 5th in total TDs, 5th in TD% per total touches, 13th in YPA, 3rd in fewest turnovers, tied for 3rd in total wins, and a 98.7 QB rating. 

 

And he is still improving

 

13 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Brady has thrown for 300 yds 5 times this year. Did it 5x last year and 6 the year before.

Rodgers 3x this year and 4x last year

Brees 3x this year (out half year), 6x last year

Mahomes 6x this year, 10x last year

Wilson 3x this year, 1x last year

 

I could keep listing QB's. Point is not the number of times or using this as the measure of greatness. But the fact that Allen is at 0 is meaningful. He plays more consistent in a number of games this year and he easily passes 300 yds. It is not by design he did not hit 300, rather his inconsistent play in those games. That is who he is at this point. The Bills have adjusted and are back to using his strengths. 

 

And yet, here Allen and the Bills are: 1 game ahead of Mahomes and the Chiefs, tied with Rodgers and the Packers, and 1 game behind the rest that you mentioned.

 

But, hey, keep up the crusade...

Edited by billsfan1959

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2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

You do realize that the points are scored when the ball crosses the goal line or goes through the uprights, right?

 

Matt Stafford throws for 5,000 every flipping year and guess what .... the Lions suck every flipping year.

 

You're just being silly.  You've dipped into this well a few too many times and now the jig is up.  It happens.  Rookie mistake.  You'll need to find a new shtick, now. 

 

Best of luck.

Yes...Stafford! He was the first QB that came to mind when I saw this thread. How is it working out for him!

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Top passers in terms of passer rating and their team records with them as a starter:

 

1. Tannehill -- 6-2 record, tied for 6th seed

2. Cousins -- 8-4 record, 6th seed

3. Wilson -- 10-2 record, 2nd seed

4. Jackson -- 10-2 record, 1st seed

5. Mahomes -- 7-3 record, 3rd seed

7. Watson -- 8-4 record, 4th seed

8. Brees -- 5-2 record, 1st seed

9. Rodgers -- 9-3 record, 3rd seed

10. Garappolo -- 10-2 record, 5th seed

11. Prescott -- 6-6 record, 4th seed

...

20. Allen -- 9-3 record, 5th seed

21. Brady -- 10-2 record, 2nd seed

 

It would seem that having a good passer is still very much correlated with winning.  Allen and Brady are outliers, and it's probably related to their teams having the number three and number one scoring defenses.   

Edited by VW82
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6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Top passers in terms of passer rating and their team records with them as a starter:

 

1. Tannehill -- 6-2 record, tied for 6th seed

2. Cousins -- 8-4 record, 6th seed

3. Wilson -- 10-2 record, 2nd seed

4. Jackson -- 10-2 record, 1st seed

5. Mahomes -- 7-3 record, 3rd seed

7. Watson -- 8-4 record, 4th seed

8. Brees -- 5-2 record, 1st seed

9. Rodgers -- 9-3 record, 3rd seed

10. Garappolo -- 10-2 record, 5th seed

11. Prescott -- 6-6 record, 4th seed

...

20. Allen -- 9-3 record, 5th seed

21. Brady -- 10-2 record, 2nd seed

 

It would seem that having a good passer is still very much correlated with winning.  Allen and Brady are outliers, and it's probably related to their teams having the number three and number one scoring defenses.   

This is passer rating?  The continued issue that keeps being brought up herein is the lack of a 300 yard passing game by Allen, which has been shown time and again to not necessarily correlate with wins.  If I have ratings correct, you could throw 12 times, complete ten for say 120 yards and 3 TDs with no int's and you'd have a very good rating. 

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13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This is passer rating?  The continued issue that keeps being brought up herein is the lack of a 300 yard passing game by Allen, which has been shown time and again to not necessarily correlate with wins.  If I have ratings correct, you could throw 12 times, complete ten for say 120 yards and 3 TDs with no int's and you'd have a very good rating. 

 

Right. But, for the sake of argument, Allen, for the season, is 20th at 88.3. However, since the NE game, Allen has really improved his overall play (with lots of room to grow still) and, since that time, over the last 8 games, Allen is 10th in Passer Rating at 98.7.

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300 yards is indicative that you can make chunk plays.  Allen’s legs (and Tyrod before) can also make big plays.  Wins are wins, and we’ll all be happy with 250 yards passing, 40 yards rushing and 2.5 combined TDs per week from our QB.

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6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This is passer rating?  The continued issue that keeps being brought up herein is the lack of a 300 yard passing game by Allen, which has been shown time and again to not necessarily correlate with wins.  If I have ratings correct, you could throw 12 times, complete ten for say 120 yards and 3 TDs with no int's and you'd have a very good rating. 

 

Yes, passer rating. FWIW the average passing yards per game of the top passer rating guys through Dak is 257. So it would seem to be QB production + efficiency = wins. 

 

Bills' recent history with lack of 300 yard passing games is more weird curiosity than anything else IMO, but I do think it appropriately points to the fact we've had some serious issues at QB over the years. It's not like we haven't often been way behind and needed to throw the ball. Thankfully that hasn't been the case as much this year.

 

The "Josh can't throw for big yardage" theme is going to continue until he does it. He's not your typical QB prospect and because of that he's going to get picked apart more than the others. There are going to be critics all the way until we're scoring lots of points and winning games mainly because of him instead of our defense, and people can point to data like passer rating to confirm it.       

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7 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Yes, passer rating. FWIW the average passing yards per game of the top passer rating guys through Dak is 257. So it would seem to be QB production + efficiency = wins. 

 

Bills' recent history with lack of 300 yard passing games is more weird curiosity than anything else IMO, but I do think it appropriately points to the fact we've had some serious issues at QB over the years. It's not like we haven't often been way behind and needed to throw the ball. Thankfully that hasn't been the case as much this year.

 

The "Josh can't throw for big yardage" theme is going to continue until he does it. He's not your typical QB prospect and because of that he's going to get picked apart more than the others. There are going to be critics all the way until we're scoring lots of points and winning games mainly because of him instead of our defense, and people can point to data like passer rating to confirm it.       

 

If you are looking to passer rating to confirm it, then, Allen has been doing just that for a number of games now.

 

Edit: Since you used Prescott as an example, as I pointed out in a previous post, Allen has a better QB rating that Prescott over the last 8 weeks.

Edited by billsfan1959

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