Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 10 hours ago, John Gianelli said: On ESPN radio just now, Freddie Coleman chose as his top 5 black quarterbacks 1) Doug Williams 2) Steve McNair 3) James Harris 4) Michael Vick 5) Marlin Briscoe Harris played quarterback for the Bills. Briscoe was a wide receiver with the Bills, but he did attempt 3 passes. I'm surprised he didn't have Russell Wilson or Randall Cunningham in his top 5. That's a pretty freakin' hard list to defend. Wilson, as you say, Cunningham, as you say, and what about Warren Moon? 42 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said: Yea, even if his list had some other qualifier, like "most historically significant", it is hard not to have Warren Moon on that list -- and at the top. Remember, Moon had to play in Canada for several years because he was told by NFL executives/scouts that he did not have an "NFL arm". Yet, Moon had one of the finest arms -- and probably threw one of the prettiest passes -- in NFL history. You could argue that Moon -- more so than even Douq Williams -- played the greatest role in shattering stereotypes. I loved me some Warren Moon. Amazing arm. Amazing offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 If he's referring to our James Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 8 hours ago, Bferra13 said: Lol what is this crap? Whatever a Freddie Coleman is, I'm pretty sure he wont have a job tomorrow if he did this list on ESPN's dime as noted. I'm as anti PC culture as anyone, but a qb is a qb. I dont see race factoring into my judgment of how good or bad a qubby is. Well considering we are about a generation and a half removed from redlining being a legal practice and coaches telling black kids they aren’t smart enough to play QB, I think it’s OK to celebrate their successes on their own. You may not “see color”, but others do and it has very real consequences. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, Gugny said: I'm surprised it's 2019 and we're still making separate lists for black athletes/people. Pathetic. I don’t think it’s pathetic in terms of listing who changed the thinking that a black man couldn’t be a starting NFL QB, which is what this list sounds like. “Pathetic” is the fact that it was such a big deal when James Harris was named the Bills starter and there were actually questions about whether a black man had the intelligence to lead a team. OJ’s book “The Education of a Rich Rookie” related some of the crap James had to put up with being a black QB in the late 1960s. Briscoe was a dynamic QB for Denver but Saban didn’t want him to continue playing QB. Doug Williams was the first black QB to lead a team to a Super Bowl victory and that was a very big deal at the time. I think by the time Vick came along, those old prejudices had largely disappeared. But he changed the type of player a QB could be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Doug Williams was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, WotAGuy said: I don’t think it’s pathetic in terms of listing who changed the thinking that a black man couldn’t be a starting NFL QB, which is what this list sounds like. “Pathetic” is the fact that it was such a big deal when James Harris was named the Bills starter and there were actually questions about whether a black man had the intelligence to lead a team. OJ’s book “The Education of a Rich Rookie” related some of the crap James had to put up with being a black QB in the late 1960s. Briscoe was a dynamic QB for Denver but Saban didn’t want him to continue playing QB. Doug Williams was the first black QB to lead a team to a Super Bowl victory and that was a very big deal at the time. I think by the time Vick came along, those old prejudices had largely disappeared. But he changed the type of player a QB could be. I just don't find it necessary to segregate when ranking anything. Rank the best QBs, period. I realize the position has historically been dominated by white men; just like the CB and WR positions have historically been dominated by black men. Why don't we see a "Best White WRs of All Time," list? Optics. That's why. It's not just sports. Forbes made a list titled, "The Black Billionaires 2019." Again ... I get it. It wasn't that long ago that MLK marched and was subsequently assassinated. But these kinds of lists, regardless of their intention, do nothing but perpetuate segregation. I just think it's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Just now, Gugny said: I just don't find it necessary to segregate when ranking anything. Rank the best QBs, period. I realize the position has historically been dominated by white men; just like the CB and WR positions have historically been dominated by black men. Why don't we see a "Best White WRs of All Time," list? Optics. That's why. It's not just sports. Forbes made a list titled, "The Black Billionaires 2019." Again ... I get it. It wasn't that long ago that MLK marched and was subsequently assassinated. But these kinds of lists, regardless of their intention, do nothing but perpetuate segregation. I just think it's dumb. A poster mentioned the list came about as a request from a listener. Perhaps your issue is with the listener? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 minute ago, WotAGuy said: A poster mentioned the list came about as a request from a listener. Perhaps your issue is with the listener? My issue is with society; not one person/publication in specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: My issue is with society; not one person/publication in specific. I see your point. You must get aggravated a lot then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Just now, WotAGuy said: I see your point. You must get aggravated a lot then ? Daily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 5 hours ago, fansince88 said: I really think this is divisive. Why say 1st black this or female that. I never understood the reason to emphasize it. I bet I can guess your race and gender while I think we sometimes get carried away- it doesn’t shock me that people get excited to identify with successes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 5 hours ago, fansince88 said: I really think this is divisive. Why say 1st black this or female that. I never understood the reason to emphasize it. It made sense when barriers were being broken. Nowadays it gets a little silly when we're pretending to care about the first black female tennis player to win a tournament on the second Tuesday in May. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gianelli Posted November 23, 2019 Author Share Posted November 23, 2019 It wasn't my intent to make this a conversation about where we stand on racial and societal issues. I posted it because two of the five players mentioned were Bills at one time, and I'm old enough to remember when they played. I remember when Marlin Briscoe had a great game as the Bronco QB to beat the Bills (with a big assist from Floyd Little). That game was a heart breaker, in a season when the Bills were quite terrible. Thus I was thrilled when he joined the Bills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 From my collection. Congrats James, Marlin & the Bills! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 11 hours ago, Augie said: Why create or emphasis that divide? They are all QB’s, and some are better than others. ...agree Augie.......but it was sad to read many posts over time about the late RW being a racist.....yet TWO of the top five black QB's were BUFFALO BILLS.....SMH..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 DeShawn Watson is already better than Briscoe,... Com'n Man! I just looked it up and he played a single season as a QB with the following stats, the rest of his career he was a WR: Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 1968 23 DEN QB 15 11 5 2-3-0 93 224 41.5 1589 14 6.3 13 5.8 66 7.1 5.7 17.1 144.5 62.9 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, cage said: DeShawn Watson is already better than Briscoe,... Com'n Man! I just looked it up and he played a single season as a QB with the following stats, the rest of his career he was a WR: Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 1968 23 DEN QB 15 11 5 2-3-0 93 224 41.5 1589 14 6.3 13 5.8 66 7.1 5.7 17.1 144.5 62.9 1 2 ...so comparing players with a FIFTY YEAR spread in the careers is a valid comparison?...um....er....uh....well....thanks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...so comparing players with a FIFTY YEAR spread in the careers is a valid comparison?...um....er....uh....well....thanks..... top 5?? I'm just saying Briscoe doesn't belong that list. How can you be top 5 all time if you played the position for one year..... um... your welcome.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, fansince88 said: I really think this is divisive. Why say 1st black this or female that. I never understood the reason to emphasize it. Divisive to whom? I would say to you that the reasons behind there being a first "this" or "that" is why the accomplishment is emphasized. Edited November 23, 2019 by purple haze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, cage said: top 5?? I'm just saying Briscoe doesn't belong that list. How can you be top 5 all time if you played the position for one year..... um... your welcome.... ...so how about honorable mention?....always liked "Marlin the Magician"......with that nickname, how could you not??......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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