Bengals release Preston Brown

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Got a 3rd and a WR for Darby (lesser player by alot)

 

He would have easily gotten a 1st.  But again just the short sightedness of McD

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/trade_finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2016&year_max=2019&pos[]=cb&draft_pick_min=1&draft_pick_max=256&order_by=trans_date

 

I love when fans just assume the value of a player like they have any idea what they are talking about. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I love when fans just assume the value of a player like they have any idea what they are talking about. 

So prove to me I am wrong on my value of Gilmore.  I love when fans question other fans knowledge when they cannot back it up

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

So prove to me I am wrong on my value of Gilmore.  I love when fans question other fans knowledge when they cannot back it up

You mean Darby? Nice.
 

Prove you are right. Prove the bills could have gotten a 1st for Darby. If you can, you will have every right to call them short sighted. Until then, you are just talking out of your ass.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

You mean Darby? Nice.
 

Prove you are right. Prove the bills could have gotten a 1st for Darby. If you can, you will have every right to call them short sighted. Until then, you are just talking out of your ass.

 

I am talking Gilmore.  Reading Comprehension is Vital to success.

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I wouldn’t want him starting but he’s cheap depth to the LB core, they know when and where to play him based on his skill set, and he knows the D. I wouldn’t complain if they claimed him. 

This is my thought on the situation as well. Our LB depth is weak and he knows the defense already. Bring him back at least for the rest of this season. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

He talked some crap about Buffalo after he left if I'm not mistaken

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I am talking Gilmore.  Reading Comprehension is Vital to success.

Ohhhhhhh.  You were saying Darby is the lesser player.  I got you. 

 

Wait, are you suggesting we would have gotten a 1st for Gilmore on just the tag? 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Ohhhhhhh.  You were saying Darby is the lesser player.  I got you. 

 

Wait, are you suggesting we would have gotten a 1st for Gilmore on just the tag? 

If we would have tagged and Traded Gilmore instead of letting him walk we would have gotten at least a 1st.  probably more.  But the Short Sighted McD let him walk for nothing (even though they knew they were blowing it up)

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

If we would have tagged and Traded Gilmore instead of letting him walk we would have gotten at least a 1st.  probably more.  But the Short Sighted McD let him walk for nothing (even though they knew they were blowing it up)

 

Yeah, that's wrong too. But, we could have probably gotten something for him, so its not as crazy as what I thought you were saying. 

[H2o]

3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He talked some crap about Buffalo after he left if I'm not mistaken

Yeah, if Buffalo had given him the contract Cincy did then that would have never happened. I'm sure he'd be glad to collect one here again if we claimed him for the rest of the season. 

[shrader]

Tyler Dragon?  I bet that's his real name.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Yeah, that's wrong too. But, we could have probably gotten something for him, so its not as crazy as what I thought you were saying. 

We would have gotten at least a 1st.

 

When Vonte Davis - 2nd

Revis - 1st, 4th

Peters 2nd , 4th

 

Recently Ramsey 1st, 1st, 4th

Conley 3rd

 

So in 2017 Bills could have easily gotten what Revis got in 2013 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

We would have gotten at least a 1st.

 

When Vonte Davis - 2nd

Revis - 1st, 4th

Peters 2nd , 4th

 

Recently Ramsey 1st, 1st, 4th

Conley 3rd

 

So in 2017 Bills could have easily gotten what Revis got in 2013 

 

Those aren't comparable. I am pretty sure those players all had time left on their deals, except for maybe Revis.  Like, Davis still had two years on his rookie deal. 

 

Besides that, Gilmore wasn't universally considered the best CB in the league when he was here. He was, at best, above average.  

 

He would have been worth something, but there is no basis to believe it would have been a 1st. 

[oldmanfan]

38 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Look at what CBs have been traded we would have gotten Multiple Picks for Gilmore to include at least one 1st.

 

It is.  Brown is better than Julian Stanford and Corey Thomson so yep it would be an upgrade

Well, no he's not actually.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Those aren't comparable. I am pretty sure those players all had time left on their deals, except for maybe Revis.  Like, Davis still had two years on his rookie deal. 

 

Besides that, Gilmore wasn't universally considered the best CB in the league when he was here. He was, at best, above average.  

 

He would have been worth something, but there is no basis to believe it would have been a 1st. 

 

Only by Bills fans.  and that should have been evident the minute he hit UFA he was signed by Patriots at 15M a year.  a Tag and Trade would have brought what Revis did in 2013,  he would have brought at least a 1st and 4th.

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Well, no he's not actually.

 

What has Julian Stanford or Corey Thompson DONE that says they are better than Brown other than being Bills?

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Only by Bills fans.  and that should have been evident the minute he hit UFA he was signed by Patriots at 15M a year.  a Tag and Trade would have brought what Revis did in 2013,  he would have brought at least a 1st and 4th.

 

What has Julian Stanford or Corey Thompson DONE that says they are better than Brown other than being Bills?

 

What has Brown done to say he's better than the backups we have.  You have your opinion, I have mine.  Quit pretending yours is the be all and end all.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

What has Brown done to say he's better than the backups we have.  You have your opinion, I have mine.  Quit pretending yours is the be all and end all.

 

Started in this league So yeah that is something that our Backups HAVENT done.  I am backing up my point, not saying my opinion is the be all end all.  Should try it sometime

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Only by Bills fans.  and that should have been evident the minute he hit UFA he was signed by Patriots at 15M a year.  a Tag and Trade would have brought what Revis did in 2013,  he would have brought at least a 1st and 4th.

 

What has Julian Stanford or Corey Thompson DONE that says they are better than Brown other than being Bills?

 

 

He made one pro bowl while on the Bills.  You really think that creates Revis level value? 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He made one pro bowl while on the Bills.  You really think that creates Revis level value? 

 

Revise 2013 value in 2017 absolutely it does.  Am I here saying multiple 1sts and more like Ramsey?  Nope I am using a 2013 value on a CB that was 28 and in a contract dispute to set the mark for a CB that was 26

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[oldmanfan]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He made one pro bowl while on the Bills.  You really think that creates Revis level value? 

 

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Started in this league So yeah that is something that our Backups HAVENT done.  I am backing up my point, not saying my opinion is the be all end all.  Should try it sometime

I'll back mine up.  Brown makes a ton of tackles but he makes them after the runner has made 5 yards if not more.  And he's a liability in pass coverage.  So he doesn't help us.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

 

I'll back mine up.  Brown makes a ton of tackles but he makes them after the runner has made 5 yards if not more.  And he's a liability in pass coverage.  So he doesn't help us.

 

Now what does Julian Stanford do and Corey Thompson do

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Revise 2013 value in 2017 absolutely it does

 

Dude, why are you dying on this hill? You lose so much credibility claiming he was worth a first. All you need to say is we would have gotten something, and you would be right. But you make this absurd claim about a first round pick and you end up sounding like such a cliche troll. 

[Nuncha]

Mr. Softie's day has come.  I'll never forget how WR Steve Smith Sr made fun of Brown after playing against him.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Dude, why are you dying on this hill? You lose so much credibility claiming he was worth a first. All you need to say is we would have gotten something, and you would be right. But you make this absurd claim about a first round pick and you end up sounding like such a cliche troll. 

 

Really.,....

 

Revis before Trade.....  19 INTs, 1 FF, 78 PD in 79 games

 

Gilmore before allowed to walk for nothing: 14 INTs, 3 FF, 62 PD in 66 games (2 years younger) 

 

So tell me again how they are not comparable.  

 

The Bold would be you, we get it your hate for Gilmore cloud your inability to judge his play

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Dude, why are you dying on this hill? You lose so much credibility claiming he was worth a first. All you need to say is we would have gotten something, and you would be right. But you make this absurd claim about a first round pick and you end up sounding like such a cliche troll. 

I have to agree with MajBobby here. Knowing what we know now -- that NE snapped him up and paid a fortune for him -- it's pretty clear that the NFL saw Gilmore as elite even if TBD posters had their doubts. CB is the most valued position on the defense now, and a young one who has proven that he is good is definitely worth a first. 

[Rigotz]

Preston Brown would be great depth and he was a great locker room guy as well. He fits "the process" ... would love to see him brought in.

Remember how bad we looked when Milano went down? Imagine if he goes down again or if Edmunds gets injured... we need quality depth.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Do it.  Put him at the Mike and move Edmunds to the Elephant role, let him rush the passer where he has a chance to be ELITE.  You want to shake things up and tilt the field a bit?  Time to make a move, McBeane.

Before everyone says “no!” (oops, too late), consider this:

- I have no idea how Miami’s run game will look next week, but I do know that Denver can run the ball effectively, and that Dallas will run the ball very effectively. Going in to those games with the same defensive personnel is asking for trouble ... in a perfect world we wouldn’t have to sacrifice pass coverage to gain in run stuffing skill. 9 games in and in a fight for a playoff spot ain’t the time to look for perfection ....

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I have to agree with MajBobby here. Knowing what we know now -- that NE snapped him up and paid a fortune for him -- it's pretty clear that the NFL saw Gilmore as elite even if TBD posters had their doubts. CB is the most valued position on the defense now, and a young one who has proven that he is good is definitely worth a first. 

 

Yep and even if they didnt work out a trade maybe they signed that long term deal. What would Bills defense be now with Gilmore and White on the outside??????

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I have to agree with MajBobby here. Knowing what we know now -- that NE snapped him up and paid a fortune for him -- it's pretty clear that the NFL saw Gilmore as elite even if TBD posters had their doubts. CB is the most valued position on the defense now, and a young one who has proven that he is good is definitely worth a first. 

 

Hindsight is always 20/20.  Besides, if the rest of the NFL thought he would be worth a first in a trade, he probably would have been selected to more pro-bowls.  On top of that, I think its fair to say there was a general surprise around the league when BB handed out that contract to Gilmore.  He had some good stats, as MajBobby points out, but he gave up a ton more in penalties and catches than Revis.  That is why he did not make the pro bowl until his last year here. 

 

That said, I loved Gilmore and thought he got a bad rap. But, at that time, when it was decision time, he was not worth a first round pick on a tag and trade.  

 

Last thing, trades don't happen in isolation. Markets determine trade value. We have no idea what Gilmore would have been worth in the market.  I guarantee the FO did at least some digging into what the market might yield. It is telling that they didn't even attempt a sign and trade.  That tells me the market value would not have yielded a pick that would have justified the franchise tag price.  

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Hindsight is always 20/20.  Besides, if the rest of the NFL thought he would be worth a first in a trade, he probably would have been selected to more pro-bowls.  On top of that, I think its fair to say there was a general surprise around the league when BB handed out that contract to Gilmore.  He had some good stats, as MajBobby points out, but he gave up a ton more in penalties and catches than Revis.  That is why he did not make the pro bowl until his last year here. 

 

That said, I loved Gilmore and thought he got a bad rap. But, at that time, when it was decision time, he was not worth a first round pick on a tag and trade.  

 

Last thing, trades don't happen in isolation. Markets determine trade value. We have no idea what Gilmore would have been worth in the market.  I guarantee the FO did at least some digging into what the market might yield. It is telling that they didn't even attempt a sign and trade.  That tells me the market value would not have yielded a pick that would have justified the franchise tag price.  

Pro Bowls are a joke. He was good for the Bills. Just ask Bill Belichick, who is at root a DB coach. I would bet a lot of money that he would have commanded a first. 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Before everyone says “no!” (oops, too late), consider this:

- I have no idea how Miami’s run game will look next week, but I do know that Denver can run the ball effectively, and that Dallas will run the ball very effectively. Going in to those games with the same defensive personnel is asking for trouble ... in a perfect world we wouldn’t have to sacrifice pass coverage to gain in run stuffing skill. 9 games in and in a fight for a playoff spot ain’t the time to look for perfection ....

Moving your starting MLB to a new position this far into the season wouldn’t make sense

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Hindsight is always 20/20.  Besides, if the rest of the NFL thought he would be worth a first in a trade, he probably would have been selected to more pro-bowls.  On top of that, I think its fair to say there was a general surprise around the league when BB handed out that contract to Gilmore.  He had some good stats, as MajBobby points out, but he gave up a ton more in penalties and catches than Revis.  That is why he did not make the pro bowl until his last year here. 

 

That said, I loved Gilmore and thought he got a bad rap. But, at that time, when it was decision time, he was not worth a first round pick on a tag and trade.  

 

Last thing, trades don't happen in isolation. Markets determine trade value. We have no idea what Gilmore would have been worth in the market.  I guarantee the FO did at least some digging into what the market might yield. It is telling that they didn't even attempt a sign and trade.  That tells me the market value would not have yielded a pick that would have justified the franchise tag price.  

 

It tells me that there was a NEW coach (calling the shots) and a Lame Duck FO.  While I am not going to KILL McD for this lack of trade (there are other things I can point to) but this is one Data Point out of many.  Decision was made for the tear down, that is what was told to us the MINUTE McD was hired.  and that was later confirmed when Whaley was shut out of the draft room and replaced right after.  To NOT get value for Gilmore was a wrong move.  Press CBs get penalties yes that HAPPENS

 

We all lov Tre White too.

 

9 int, 3ff, 35PD in 41 games. 

 

What is Tre White's Value in a Trade?

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Pro Bowls are a joke. He was good for the Bills. Just ask Bill Belichick, who is at root a DB coach. I would bet a lot of money that he would have commanded a first. 

 

But People will tell m Tre White would not be moved for less than a 1st and well is a very similar player to Gilmore, but I am the one that doesnt know value.

 

Jalen Ramsey 9 INT,  3FF, 45 PD in 54 games - Less than Gilmore across the board gets 2 1sts and a 4th in a trade.

Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby

[The Frankish Reich]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Moving your starting MLB to a new position this far into the season wouldn’t make sense

Well, you gotta get better if you want to do anything other than backing into the playoffs and losing a first round game ... sometimes that means taking chances. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, you gotta get better if you want to do anything other than backing into the playoffs and losing a first round game ... sometimes that means taking chances. 

 

No the Drought is over we celebrate (however the Real one is what now 23 years?) 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

It tells me that there was a NEW coach (calling the shots) and a Lame Duck FO.  While I am not going to KILL McD for this lack of trade (there are other things I can point to) but this is one Data Point out of many.  Decision was made for the tear down, that is what was told to us the MINUTE McD was hired.  and that was later confirmed when Whaley was shut out of the draft room and replaced right after.  To NOT get value for Gilmore was a wrong move.  Press CBs get penalties yes that HAPPENS

 

We all lov Tre White too.

 

9 int, 3ff, 35PD in 41 games. 

 

What is Tre White's Value in a Trade?

 

But People will tell m Tre White would not be moved for less than a 1st and well is a very similar player to Gilmore, but I am the one that doesnt know value.

 

Jalen Ramsey 9 INT,  3FF, 45 PD in 54 games - Less than Gilmore across the board gets 2 1sts and a 4th in a trade.

 

Players on a tag and trade do not have the same value as players traded with a year or two left on their contracts, especially their rookie deals. 

 

You are talking about trades that rarely happen as if it was a given that not only would the Bills be successful, but they would also get a prized first round pick.  

 

There rare cases where it works, but Gilmore, with his accomplishments and failures, is not one of those cases.  

[MAJBobby]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Players on a tag and trade do not have the same value as players traded with a year or two left on their contracts, especially their rookie deals. 

 

You are talking about trades that rarely happen as if it was a given that not only would the Bills be successful, but they would also get a prized first round pick.  

 

There rare cases where it works, but Gilmore, with his accomplishments and failures, is not one of those cases.  

 

SO ABSOLUTELY NO Data to back up your opinion vs actual Data.  Yeah I think I know I am right that he would have gotten at least a first.  Hell Mikah Fitzpatrick gets a first.   

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Players on a tag and trade do not have the same value as players traded with a year or two left on their contracts, especially their rookie deals. 

 

You are talking about trades that rarely happen as if it was a given that not only would the Bills be successful, but they would also get a prized first round pick.  

 

There rare cases where it works, but Gilmore, with his accomplishments and failures, is not one of those cases.  

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027521/article/seahawks-agree-to-trade-frank-clark-to-chiefs-for-draft-picks

 

Clark had been tagged by the Seahawks. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

SO ABSOLUTELY NO Data to back up your opinion vs actual Data.  Yeah I think I know I am right that he would have gotten at least a first.  Hell Mikah Fitzpatrick gets a first.   

 

Is that a serious comment? You have posted 16,000 times on this board. You obviously love the Bills and love football.  There is no way you can spend that much time thinking about football and think that Fitzpatrick comment makes any sense.  I'll make it simple: The overwhelming value of a trade is dictated by how many years the receiving team will have that player and at what cost. So, the Steelers received Minkah for 3 more years on a low-cost rookie deal.  In the Gilmore Scenario, the receiving team gets Gilmore for 1 year at the most expensive price tag in the NFL.  Do you see why the former is worth more (higher pick) than the latter?  I refuse to believe you do not understand this concept, but that Fitzpatrick comment tells me you don't. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027521/article/seahawks-agree-to-trade-frank-clark-to-chiefs-for-draft-picks

 

Clark had been tagged by the Seahawks. 

 

So Wasnt 

Dee Ford

Clowney

 

[Phil The Thrill]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

On paper it sounds like this would be a great move for the Bills.  But there was a reason Brown played some much Special Teams when the Bills played Cincy this year.  He’s probably not very good.