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Phil The Thrill

Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

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Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

2 starts. Replacing Eli who was completely 1 dimensional, and barely had that dimension left. And teams have no film on Jones.

 

Jones isnt playing crazy, lights out QB. He's just a youth injection that his team is rallying around.

 

Once DCs get tape on him, he'll come back down to Earth. Just like Mayfield.


Maybe... but I see progression with Jones.  You saw it with Mayfield and Lamar.  I’m not seeing the same amount of progress with Josh.  He seems to be making the mistakes he made as “Bad Josh” last year

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3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Unless you’re a fan of QB purgatory, that’s a terrible idea

 

How the heck is it QB purgatory giving Allen a breather?

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:


Maybe... but I see progression with Jones.  You saw it with Mayfield and Lamar.  I’m not seeing the same amount of progress with Josh.  He seems to be making the mistakes he made as “Bad Josh” last year

 

So why do you insist he get back out there?

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1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Your justification of your agenda is flat out insane......

 

They are NFL teams......they have losing records because WE GAVE THEM A LOSS....you have absolutely no idea how teams like say..the bengals are going to end up doing this year.

 

Also...this stupid remarks about not progressing....I have seen PLENTY of plays this year where Josh has thrown a ball away......or worked his short game....or stayed in the pocket intead of running (sometimes to his detriment) this year to say that he is not progressing......ENOUGH OF THAT

 

He had a bad game where he through 3 picks......he has put the ball on the ground in the first 4 games...he has also WON those games........

 

Just stupid...and right after a loss being 3 and 1 which make sit EVEN MORE STUPID

 

 


We won the game largely because the defense stopped opposing offenses from converting those turnovers into points.  You can’t dismiss that.

 

I don’t have an agenda other than saying I’m starting to wonder whether Allen will truly improve the way we want him to.  He just seems to revert back to Wyoming Josh - that’s not a good thing.

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2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Maybe... but I see progression with Jones.  You saw it with Mayfield and Lamar.  I’m not seeing the same amount of progress with Josh.  He seems to be making the mistakes he made as “Bad Josh” last year

 

Exactly what progression are you seeing with Jones? Please cite plays and post clips.

 

What progression did you see from Mayfield who started hot and stayed hot, only to come back to Earth this year? Are you worried about his regression?

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2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Maybe... but I see progression with Jones.  You saw it with Mayfield and Lamar.  I’m not seeing the same amount of progress with Josh.  He seems to be making the mistakes he made as “Bad Josh” last year

That is because your blind

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2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How the heck is it QB purgatory giving Allen a breather?

 

So why do you insist he get back out there?


Sitting a rookie QB never ends well.  If you are so concerned about his confidence - sending him to the bench because you don’t think he can beat a good defense is a terrible idea.

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1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said:


We won the game largely because the defense stopped opposing offenses from converting those turnovers into points.  You can’t dismiss that.

 

I don’t have an agenda other than saying I’m starting to wonder whether Allen will truly improve the way we want him to.  He just seems to revert back to Wyoming Josh - that’s not a good thing.

Simple question....did Josh Allen take his offense down the field when points were needed at the end of games and win......

 

Stop dismissing the fact that Josh Allen plays his best ball when the game is on the line......lots of starting QBs save that time to make their mistakes.

 

Does defense keep us in games?   Yes that is how our team is biult.......we have 10 new starters on offense they are not going to be the best unit of our team right now.

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Just now, Phil The Thrill said:


Sitting a rookie QB never ends well.  If you are so concerned about his confidence - sending him to the bench because you don’t think he can beat a good defense is a terrible idea.

 

You see progression.

 

In two games.

 

Can't make this crap up.

 

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I get why Bills fans are pushing the panic button with Allen.

 

It's the "here we go again" syndrome with a young Bills QB, a.k.a., Manuel, Edwards and Losman.

 

Allen did seem to turn the corner in the second half yesterday after a miserable first half, so there is that.

 

The Bills might actually have a strong running game with Gore and the returning Singletary, so can Allen become a game manager for this team before he becomes a franchise QB?

 

That is the big question now and one Daboll needs to find the answer to quickly.

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7 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Unless you’re a fan of QB purgatory, that’s a terrible idea

 

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How the heck is it QB purgatory giving Allen a breather?

 

 

Seems folks (Phil) still dont understand what Whaley meant by the Bills being in "QB Purgatory".

 

He was referring to never truly hitting rock bottom and getting a top 3 overall pick to get a good QB. We were always finishing 6-10/8-8 and picking #12, #16 overall.

 

It was his way of saying "Fans dont want to tank, but you cant get a Franchise QB unless youre at the top of the draft".

 

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6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'm disappointed that Josh is creeping back. Especially when Dabol seems to be telling him the same stuff over and over and it's not sticking. He needs to sit a game and a bye.

You aren't going to learn decision making on the bench. Improved decision making is going to come from experience. Unless the trainers don't clear him out of concussion protocol there is no way in my mind that you don't start Josh. Josh has a lot of bad habits that are a result of his arm bailing him out throughout his career. 

 

But he has already improved his footwork (the other weak point of his game) significantly and he will only stand to make strides improving his decision making by being more exposed to game action and not from the bench. 

 

I think people are being overly reactionary to this game. Let's be honest the O-line was OK but did allow significant pressure at times and the receiving core while competent lacks a game breaking number one WR option. So it's not like Josh has all these great offensive weapons where even an average QB would be successful, this is a mid-levelish offensive supporting cast right now. Josh is of course going to have bad games. 

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2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Exactly what progression are you seeing with Jones? Please cite plays and post clips.

 

What progression did you see from Mayfield who started hot and stayed hot, only to come back to Earth this year? Are you worried about his regression?


Comparing Apples to baseballs here...

 

I hope Allen can play this weekend to see how he does against a good defense.  If he has a good game, I’ll feel more confident.  If we see Wyoming Josh I’ll continue to be skeptical 

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2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Sitting a rookie QB never ends well.  If you are so concerned about his confidence - sending him to the bench because you don’t think he can beat a good defense is a terrible idea.

 

First he's not a rookie. Second he's still doing dumb stuff. Third he still does dumb stuff after his OC tells him not to do dumb stuff. Players get benched all the time. It's not the end of their careers. Especially when you make it clear why. If Allen can't handle that then he's the wrong guy.

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

You aren't going to learn decision making on the bench. Improved decision making is going to come from experience. Unless the trainers don't clear him out of concussion protocol there is no way in my mind that you don't start Josh. Josh has a lot of bad habits that are a result of his arm bailing him out throughout his career. 

 

But he has already improved his footwork (the other weak point of his game) significantly and he will only stand to make strides improving his decision making by being more exposed to game action and not from the bench. 

 

I think people are being overly reactionary to this game. Let's be honest the O-line was OK but did allow significant pressure at times and the receiving core while competent lacks a game breaking number one WR option. So it's not like Josh has all these great offensive weapons where even an average QB would be successful, this is a mid-levelish offensive supporting cast right now. Josh is of course going to have bad games. 

 

Well they can start teaching him how to throw a ball away.

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2 minutes ago, njbuff said:

I get why Bills fans are pushing the panic button with Allen.

 

It's the "here we go again" syndrome with a young Bills QB, a.k.a., Manuel, Edwards and Losman.

 

Allen did seem to turn the corner in the second half yesterday after a miserable first half, so there is that.

 

The Bills might actually have a strong running game with Gore and the returning Singletary, so can Allen become a game manager for this team before he becomes a franchise QB?

 

That is the big question now and one Daboll needs to find the answer to quickly.

The question os does Allen have the patience to be a game manager. It took Peyton Manning 8 seasons to finally just take what the defense gave him and he had way better mechanics and accuracy.

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Nope, not at all. I expected this to happen with him. He'll be fine because he has what it takes.

 

Why does no one point out that there is another way of looking at the game? We should have won yesterday, and it took alot of things going against us for the Pats to win. Just think about that for a second, we outfirstdowned them, outgained them, were on our way to winning when Josh got hurt after adjusting at halftime etc......... And, it took 4 turnovers for the Pats to win. I think its safe to say this team is on the right track if Allen can stay healthy.

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6 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


Maybe... but I see progression with Jones.  You saw it with Mayfield and Lamar.  I’m not seeing the same amount of progress with Josh.  He seems to be making the mistakes he made as “Bad Josh” last year

You do know that Mayfield has been below average the first three games of the season right? His only good game was this past weekend. Lamar Jackson had good games against defenses that teams have been rolling up points against. The Chiefs were his first good team to play and it wasnt a good game for him. 

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The only thing putrid I read was the OP

 

Holy crap .   no protection, WRs barely getting seperation, playcalling was meh and Allen had to play Superman to make anything work but he was the reason we lost

 

If Barkley played the remaining 12 we might win 1-2 games

 

We're going places if Allen stays healthy

10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

First he's not a rookie. Second he's still doing dumb stuff. Third he still does dumb stuff after his OC tells him not to do dumb stuff. Players get benched all the time. It's not the end of their careers. Especially when you make it clear why. If Allen can't handle that then he's the wrong guy.

 

Well they can start teaching him how to throw a ball away.

You can't bench him for barkley PTR.

 

If you do that you might as well trade him because he's 20x the QB Barkley is at this moment and that will kill the team

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16 minutes ago, njbuff said:

I get why Bills fans are pushing the panic button with Allen.

 

It's the "here we go again" syndrome with a young Bills QB, a.k.a., Manuel, Edwards and Losman.

 

Allen did seem to turn the corner in the second half yesterday after a miserable first half, so there is that.

 

The Bills might actually have a strong running game with Gore and the returning Singletary, so can Allen become a game manager for this team before he becomes a franchise QB?

 

That is the big question now and one Daboll needs to find the answer to quickly.

 

He has done this in several games.  Which is nice to see, halftime adjustments from your QB and OC.  

 

  He needs to play a complete 60 minutes.   I understand "getting in a rhythm," but perhaps you can do that without throwing 3 INT's and overthrowing wide-open WR's deep and under-throwing open WR's on shallow routes.  

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12 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

I had some friends yesterday that said Josh had a lot of time in the pocket yesterday.  Did we watch the same game?  The online is better than last year, but still struggling at times...

 

 

And anyone that's giving up on a QB 4 games into his second season needs some perspective on achieving results.  Rome was not build in a day, kids.  :beer: 

 

Interior o-line played well overall and our line was effective in the run game.  But it seemed that both Allen and Barkley were under pressure all day, especially from the edges.  Five sacks and multiple penalties (4 holding/3 false starts).  Pats* have a tough defense, but I have not been happy all season with our o-tackles, especially in pass protection.    

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18 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You see progression.

 

In two games.

 

Can't make this crap up.

 


what are you talking about?  You can’t start a rookie/2nd year QB and then put him back on the bench after giving him the ball.  It’s a confidence killer 

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2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


what are you talking about?  You can’t start a rookie/2nd year QB and then put him back on the bench after giving him the ball.  It’s a confidence killer 

 

You said upthread you've seen progression for Daniel Jones. In two games.

 

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1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

You are absolutely fukin hopeless.....if Josh didnt have the turnovers and had low passing yards...that would be the thing you are bitching about

 

Take a lap

Well he actually has both so not sure that is a good example...

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8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The only thing putrid I read was the OP

 

Holy crap .   no protection, WRs barely getting seperation, playcalling was meh and Allen had to play Superman to make anything work but he was the reason we lost

 

If Barkley played the remaining 12 we might win 1-2 games

 

We're going places if Allen stays healthy

You can't bench him for barkley PTR.

 

If you do that you might as well trade him because he's 20x the QB Barkley is at this moment and that will kill the team


you do realize that the protection issues as you put it, are Allen’s fault the majority of the time.  He either doesn’t read the defense or holds onto the ball too long. 

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1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said:


you do realize that the protection issues as you put it, are Allen’s fault the majority of the time.  He either doesn’t read the defense or holds onto the ball too long. 

He hold the ball long plenty

 

But there were also free rushers in his face all day, off the edge coming untouched

 

Our interior had it's worst day of the season

 

And the WRs were not getting constant seperation forcing Josh to hold the ball

 

If there were dudes running wide open all day and Josh was not getting touched in the pocket I'd say he was awful.. but none of that happened

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43 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:


How do you explain the success of a player like Daniel Jones?  In just a few starts, he is elevating the entire offense.

 

How much time should we give Allen?  5 years?  6 years?

 

If he’s any good we should see progress soon.  And “progress” was not what we saw yesterday 

Allen came out and destroyed Minnesota in one of his first games, did he not?  Young QBs have ups and downs.  Jones will too.  Allen has a down yesterday.  Leading three victories up to yesterday were ups.

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