Josh Allen in concussion protocol: Update cleared 10/5

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Also, in the same video that people are calling out in which Allen is throwing to Duke, he is also throwing to Zay.

 

Hence why I said it does not mean Zay is going anywhere, they already have a roster spot open to activate Duke if they want.  I would be willing to bet they will hold that spot open until Allen is cleared or not so they know if they need it or not for Webb.  Allen plays, I think good shot Duke is activated.  If not, no chance and it will be Webb.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Ok, maybe it's been adressed but what restrictions in stage 4 prevent full practice for a QB?  Everything I read said no contact and there is no need for contact on the QB in any practice setting, ever. This would not be true for any positions other than kickers.  So, what's to prevent Josh from doing 7 on 7 or team?  There is no contact allowed on the QB then anyways.

[Logic]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He could easily slip and fall or trip over it if his head is not right. How incredibly stupid would it have been knowing there are reporters there to have that happen. All it said to me was they do this all the time and that he is 100%. 

To be honest, I think you're right: It would absolutely foolish to have a quarterback who is still feeling the effects of a concussion try to jump over giant exercise balls. As you say, he could easily land awkwardly or slip on the ball and hit his head on the turf. I hadn't given it much thought, but this drill would be a terrible idea for a player with head injury concerns. Hmm...

[Chill]

Just now, Logic said:

To be honest, I think you're right: It would absolutely foolish to have a quarterback who is still feeling the effects of a concussion try to jump over giant exercise balls. As you say, he could easily land awkwardly or slip on the ball and hit his head on the turf. I hadn't given it much thought, but this drill would be a terrible idea for a player with head injury concerns. Hmm...

Yeah. He’s definitely playing, Imo. They wouldn’t have him sprinting and jumping with a brain injury. 

[YoloinOhio]

36 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Ok, maybe it's been adressed but what restrictions in stage 4 prevent full practice for a QB?  Everything I read said no contact and there is no need for contact on the QB in any practice setting, ever. This would not be true for any positions other than kickers.  So, what's to prevent Josh from doing 7 on 7 or team?  There is no contact allowed on the QB then anyways.

No practice restrictions. He just needs cleared by the team and independent neurologist. 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, Chill said:

Yeah. He’s definitely playing, Imo. They wouldn’t have him sprinting and jumping with a brain injury. 

 

I think all the signs are there that they believe he will play.  Like many have said, if the after affects were affecting still they would be a lot more cautious I think right now.  Feels like they at the very least think he is probably going to be cleared to play.  If they had doubt due to lingering affects, I am pretty sure Allen wouldn't be getting as much field time right now.  

 

That being said, its not really up to the coaches, Allen has to be cleared.  So even if they are confident he will play, still doesn't mean he will be cleared.  And to be fair, all the signs were pointing to Singletary playing against NE and he still didn't quite get there.  

 

If I had to guess at some odds right now, I would guess there is a 70% chance Josh is going to play personally.  Probable but not a lock.

[atlbillsfan1975]

It feels like with the McDermott cut that the Bills are doing everything they can to make it seem Allen might not play. 

Cloak and Dagger?!

[Kelly the Dog]

27 minutes ago, Logic said:

To be honest, I think you're right: It would absolutely foolish to have a quarterback who is still feeling the effects of a concussion try to jump over giant exercise balls. As you say, he could easily land awkwardly or slip on the ball and hit his head on the turf. I hadn't given it much thought, but this drill would be a terrible idea for a player with head injury concerns. Hmm...

Not that they COULDNT be so stupid.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Kelly the Dog

[JESSEFEFFER]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

No practice restrictions. He just needs cleared by the team and independent neurologist. 

One Bills Live ran a poll about fan preferences for Sunday.  A fully prepared Barkley, a less prepared Allen or it doesn't matter because the defense will win it.  From what I read about stage 4, the only restriction for practice is no contact.  So if Josh is cleared to play, why should he be less prepared?  There shouldn't be contact on the QB for any part of practice, stage 4 or not.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

11 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

 if Josh is cleared to play, why should he be less prepared?

 

At a minimum the team would need to hedge and get Barkley prepared in case Josh cannot go.  There is limited practice time, so it means Josh may be less prepared.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Just now, Rock'em Sock'em said:

 

At a minimum the team would need to hedge and get Barkley prepared in case Josh cannot go.  There is limited practice time, so it means Josh may be less prepared.

Less than Matt or might they do 50/50 and run some extra plays during team?

[DrPJax]

42 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Ok, maybe it's been adressed but what restrictions in stage 4 prevent full practice for a QB?  Everything I read said no contact and there is no need for contact on the QB in any practice setting, ever. This would not be true for any positions other than kickers.  So, what's to prevent Josh from doing 7 on 7 or team?  There is no contact allowed on the QB then anyways.

I think you are right , there is really no diff between stage 4 or 5 for a QB , except that stage 5 would imply a second day of full practice , followed by a computer test called the IMPACT test the next day to be sure josh has reached his baseline scores ( prior to the injury) and that his scores remain stable. If his score regressed tomorrow it would probably mean another day in stage 4 of the protocol which really only means he would be retested on computer again on Saturday.  I believe if his score is stable tomorrow ( test done after sleeping after having finished a full practice ; the normal sleep part is important as many times patients with lingering symptoms or post concussion syndrome will have difficulty sleeping after exertion ) theoretically he would no longer need to be tested past Friday.   The IMPACT test is the only FDA approved protocol for management of concussion and used by the NFL, olympics , FIFA,  most high school athletic associations across the country and many colleges as well. 
Here is a link to the impact test site with a short video explaining its use. https://impactconcussion.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=impactproduct&ads_cmpid=6549852907&ads_adid=76904728725&ads_matchtype=b&ads_network=g&ads_creative=385367805553&utm_term=impact concussion&ads_targetid=kwd-314225683657&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&ttv=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuNbsBRC-ARIsAAzITufx6xQwglg6Gk2R2C4wShszuAnxePkx9hEGac068cFN6ezuZRApp5gaAuudEALw_wcB   ( hope that works ) .

 

Here is a link for the SCAT5  (  sport concussion assessment tool version 5 ) that has a really nice handout used by clinicians and the last two pages really define the protocol stages for progressive return to exercise , school and studying that is a nice resource and defines what a concussion is and what cardinal signs to look for. This is used for quick ( ten min test Immediately after a witnessed possible concussion or brain injury) on the field ; sideline assessment for initial screening, then formal IMPACT testing occurs later or 24 hours after injury and compared to baseline. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2017/04/26/bjsports-2017-097506SCAT5.full.pdf

The following is the actual consensus statement on concussion in sport that was published from the conference in Berlin in 2016 and shows the multitude of experts brought together to develop the protocol or concussion policy that is in use today by the NFL. Don’t be put off by now formal it looks. It is nicely summed up in italics as you scroll thru the short paper. Pretty ingesting to see the actual report that was the basis for everything. 
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/11/838.full.pdf.   Hope  that is helpful. I think you are spot on tho that for a qb there is no function diff between stage 4 or 5 , except for just an additional 24 hours to show stability and no regression post exertion. ?

 

 

 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

4 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Less than Matt or might they do 50/50 and run some extra plays during team?

Less than usual.  50/50 sounds as likely of a split this week as anything.

[JESSEFEFFER]

If the limitation is no contact and contact is never part of a QB's practice anyways, then what is the restriction?  I suspect he's a full participant with a meaningless restriction.

[Blank Stare]

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t play with what seems to be participating in the standard routine for the QBs. If he was still in rough shape, they wouldn’t have him out there with blasting music and in the rain on a slippery field running, cutting, and jumping over medicine balls. Sure, it could all be gamesmanship, but I doubt it. If McD was as clever as he thinks he is, he would’ve picked up on the team’s tendency to not pull in their gunners on a punt block call. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

20 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

I think you are right , there is really no diff between stage 4 or 5 for a QB , except that stage 5 would imply a second day of full practice , followed by a computer test called the IMPACT test the next day to be sure josh has reached his baseline scores ( prior to the injury) and that his scores remain stable. If his score regressed tomorrow it would probably mean another day in stage 4 of the protocol which really only means he would be retested on computer again on Saturday.  I believe if his score is stable tomorrow ( test done after sleeping after having finished a full practice ; the normal sleep part is important as many times patients with lingering symptoms or post concussion syndrome will have difficulty sleeping after exertion ) theoretically he would no longer need to be tested past Friday.   The IMPACT test is the only FDA approved protocol for management of concussion and used by the NFL, olympics , FIFA,  most high school athletic associations across the country and many colleges as well. 
Here is a link to the impact test site with a short video explaining its use. https://impactconcussion.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=impactproduct&ads_cmpid=6549852907&ads_adid=76904728725&ads_matchtype=b&ads_network=g&ads_creative=385367805553&utm_term=impact concussion&ads_targetid=kwd-314225683657&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&ttv=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuNbsBRC-ARIsAAzITufx6xQwglg6Gk2R2C4wShszuAnxePkx9hEGac068cFN6ezuZRApp5gaAuudEALw_wcB   ( hope that works ) .

 

Here is a link for the SCAT5  (  sport concussion assessment tool version 5 ) that has a really nice handout used by clinicians and the last two pages really define the protocol stages for progressive return to exercise , school and studying that is a nice resource and defines what a concussion is and what cardinal signs to look for. This is used for quick ( ten min test Immediately after a witnessed possible concussion or brain injury) on the field ; sideline assessment for initial screening, then formal IMPACT testing occurs later or 24 hours after injury and compared to baseline. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2017/04/26/bjsports-2017-097506SCAT5.full.pdf

The following is the actual consensus statement on concussion in sport that was published from the conference in Berlin in 2016 and shows the multitude of experts brought together to develop the protocol or concussion policy that is in use today by the NFL. Don’t be put off by now formal it looks. It is nicely summed up in italics as you scroll thru the short paper. Pretty ingesting to see the actual report that was the basis for everything. 
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/11/838.full.pdf.   Hope  that is helpful. I think you are spot on tho that for a qb there is no function diff between stage 4 or 5 , except for just an additional 24 hours to show stability and no regression post exertion. ?

 

 

 

Wow that is some heavy expertise.  Now my brain hurts.

Edited October 4, 2019 by JESSEFEFFER

[DrPJax]

51 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Wow that is some heavy expertise.  Now my brain hurts.

Ok now we are going to have to consider entering you in the  TBD concussion protocol ,,,,,let’s see what posters think that protocol should be !  I am thinking one or two dirty martinis prior to reading any further posts about Josh and this dam concussion protocol ! ?

[JESSEFEFFER]

6 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Ok now we are going to have to consider entering you in the  TBD concussion protocol ,,,,,let’s see what posters think that protocol should be !  I am thinking one or two dirty martinis prior to reading any further posts about Josh and this dam concussion protocol ! ?

I had to do a search on a "dirty martini" and have to admit that it is not what I was hoping it might be.

[Wayne Cubed]

10 hours ago, nucci said:

Vrabel played under him

 

And so did a lot of coaches who are currently not coaching in the NFL. Vrabel isn't Belichick, not even close.

[CSBill]

8 hours ago, DrPJax said:

I think you are right , there is really no diff between stage 4 or 5 for a QB , except that stage 5 would imply a second day of full practice , followed by a computer test called the IMPACT test the next day to be sure josh has reached his baseline scores ( prior to the injury) and that his scores remain stable. If his score regressed tomorrow it would probably mean another day in stage 4 of the protocol which really only means he would be retested on computer again on Saturday.  I believe if his score is stable tomorrow ( test done after sleeping after having finished a full practice ; the normal sleep part is important as many times patients with lingering symptoms or post concussion syndrome will have difficulty sleeping after exertion ) theoretically he would no longer need to be tested past Friday.   The IMPACT test is the only FDA approved protocol for management of concussion and used by the NFL, olympics , FIFA,  most high school athletic associations across the country and many colleges as well. 
Here is a link to the impact test site with a short video explaining its use. https://impactconcussion.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=impactproduct&ads_cmpid=6549852907&ads_adid=76904728725&ads_matchtype=b&ads_network=g&ads_creative=385367805553&utm_term=impact concussion&ads_targetid=kwd-314225683657&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&ttv=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuNbsBRC-ARIsAAzITufx6xQwglg6Gk2R2C4wShszuAnxePkx9hEGac068cFN6ezuZRApp5gaAuudEALw_wcB   ( hope that works ) .

 

Here is a link for the SCAT5  (  sport concussion assessment tool version 5 ) that has a really nice handout used by clinicians and the last two pages really define the protocol stages for progressive return to exercise , school and studying that is a nice resource and defines what a concussion is and what cardinal signs to look for. This is used for quick ( ten min test Immediately after a witnessed possible concussion or brain injury) on the field ; sideline assessment for initial screening, then formal IMPACT testing occurs later or 24 hours after injury and compared to baseline. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2017/04/26/bjsports-2017-097506SCAT5.full.pdf

The following is the actual consensus statement on concussion in sport that was published from the conference in Berlin in 2016 and shows the multitude of experts brought together to develop the protocol or concussion policy that is in use today by the NFL. Don’t be put off by now formal it looks. It is nicely summed up in italics as you scroll thru the short paper. Pretty ingesting to see the actual report that was the basis for everything. 
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/51/11/838.full.pdf.   Hope  that is helpful. I think you are spot on tho that for a qb there is no function diff between stage 4 or 5 , except for just an additional 24 hours to show stability and no regression post exertion. ?

 

 

Just read this, I feel like I should get 3 credits for it.