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Ethan in Portland

Is this best secondary the Bills have ever had?

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Not the most talent but potentially the best combination of talent and secondary specific coaching/scheme.

 

McD is basically a secondary coach...........this situation is a lot like the special teams when Marv was HC.

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1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Mario Clark, Charlie Romes, Jeff Nixon, Steve Freeman and Rod Kush were pretty good....

Indeed! For my money, Saimes, Janik, Edgerson & Byrd

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1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Yes

 

I just looked up their stats.  Kush never even started a game - until a few in 1983.  Simpson started 11 games in 1980.  (Coinciding with my memory of him stepping in for NIxon after Nixon tore his ACL in the Chargers game - game 5).  He also started all 16 in 1981 and 9 (I think that's all they played) in 1982. 

 

Get Kush out of there.  Bill Simpson was the man!  

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7 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Lol.  Every guy in Bills secondary made it that year.  Never happened with any other nfl team in same year since.   So that 65 team was unreal.  

 

In 1984 the entire San Francisco 49'ers secondary made the Pro Bowl:

 

Ronnie Lot

Eric Wright

Carlton Williamson

Dwight Hicks

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1984_roster.htm

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I was just going to nominate the '74 Bills.  Tony Greene had 9 INTS.  I could have swore he at least made the Pro Bowl, but I don't see it.............Robert James was 1st Team All Pro................Dwight Harrison I remember as being good.  But, I can't figure out who even played strong safety.  

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I'll let you know in Nov or Dec.

12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

White is a legit top 5 CB. Hyde and Poyer are both top 20 safeties, not elite but fringe ProBowl players. And the depth for legit CBs is 4 or 5 deep.  Gaines coming off IR late in the season is like getting a Christmas present that was forgotten in the closet.

Winfield/Clements was a great CB duo but the safeties were terrible - Milloy in decline and Coy Wire was awful.

Odomes was very good but the rest of the secondary was average or below. 

Butch Byrd is greatest DB in Bills history. But I really don't know much else about the rest of the guys he played with. I thought the Bills AFL defense's were built around DL and LBs, but I may be wrong.

Didnt Gaines get released.

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11 hours ago, SoTier said:

In 1992, the Bills had Kirby Jackson, Nate Odomes who made the Pro Bowl in 1992, Henry Jones, an All Pro SS in 1992, and Mark Kelso.  That was probably the best secondary the Bills had since the merger.   Jackson's suffered a career ending injury after leaving Buffalo for Seattle, so he only played 5 years.

 

I don't care who the Bills other safety was in 2003 but Winfield, Clements, and Milloy were all Pro Bowlers either for the Bills or for other teams, so I'd rate them second best. 

  • Winfield's last season with the Bills was 2003.  He went on to start for 9 more seasons with Minnesota and was a three time Pro Bowler.
  • Clements last season with the Bills was 2006.  He went on to start 4 more seasons for San Francisco and 1 more for Cincinatti.
  • Milloy played for the Bills for 3 seasons, 2003-2005.  He then went on to start for 3 seasons in Atlanta and played 2 more seasons in Seattle, starting 15 games in 2010, so he was hardly "washed up" in 2003.

Since none of the current Bills DBs has been a Pro Bowler or been named a top 100 player, it's hard to make the case that they are "the best secondary ever".  They play well in McDermott's scheme but except for White, they don't seem to be outstanding individuals.  Other Bills squads have had 1 outstanding individual among pretty average players that played well as a unit.

 

Y'know for a team that supposedly has this "elite level" secondary and an "elite" defense, the Bills sure couldn't stop teams from scoring on them in the Red Zone in 2018.  Maybe that's why the rest of the NFL and media ignore them when it comes to handing out honors.

You do realize that now the PB is voted on by fans. Even the top 100 isnt completely legit as players vote on it and many players that belong are overlooked.

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12 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

As a group yes, I'm not 100% sold on Levi as a starter but like our nickel and dime CBs yet I think scheme and coaching also plays a part as McDermott McDermott/Frasier know zone coverage.

Would you feel differently if he weren't undrafted?

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I haven’t been around as long as some on this board, but I think I can safely say this is the best defensive backfield I’ve ever seen for the Bills. Watching them in person was even more impressive. On TV, you only see that second that the ball gets there. But watching the progression of plays live on Friday night was eye-opening as far as how good they are. That was my biggest takeaway leaving BofA Stadium Friday night - how good our DBs are.

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10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

McD let Gilmore walk and then blew a 3rd round comp pick to keep a 6th WR and a terrible Guard.

But McD also signed Hype and Poyer. I really liked the Hyde signing at the time and I did not think much of the Poyer signing.

I wish we could find out the truth as to how much of these moves were Whaley and how much was McD.  They had the cap room to keep Gilmore at least on a franchise tag. Oh well

I'm not sure either, although I would give credit to McDermott if I had to choose. He's still coaching the scheme very successfully with these guys which mean something. He was the one there for Tre White, Poyer, and Hyde. 

 

But again the regime still seems to hit on all their dumpster diving. I was partial to Taron Johnson last year.. I can't think of a secondary addition that didn't exceed expectations.. except Vontae Davis lol.

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9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Not the most talent but potentially the best combination of talent and secondary specific coaching/scheme.

 

McD is basically a secondary coach...........this situation is a lot like the special teams when Marv was HC.

 

Also not surprising that both McD and Jauron chose to rebuild the secondary as their first order of business given their being DBs as players and then coaches. 

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I'd say the best was the 2004

 

Nate Clements - Antoine Winfield - Terrence McGee CB Trio with

 

Lawyer Milloy and Izell Reese at safety

 

Reese being the only weakness, which was address with Troy Vincent, but after they lost Winfield to FA... in 2005 they had Clements, McGee, and Jabari Greer, with Milloy and Vincent, which was also great, but I think the Winfield, Clements, McGee with Milloy outweighs them by a bit... 

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The AFL had 8 teams, making the Pro Bowl back then was much easier than today based on # of players competing for those spots. Can't really count Pro Bowl appearances when comparing 1965 players to 2019 players.

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3 hours ago, The Bills Blog said:

Would you feel differently if he weren't undrafted?

No, it's just his play on the Torrey Smith pass and others make me worry that he's the weak link of the secondary. Yet as bad as he looked on said play he still was able to cause an incompletion but it was worth seeing him out of position and having to turn himself around to make a play etc. 

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59 minutes ago, 947 said:

The AFL had 8 teams, making the Pro Bowl back then was much easier than today based on # of players competing for those spots. Can't really count Pro Bowl appearances when comparing 1965 players to 2019 players.

 

Well, if you’re gonna get all technical, the AFL had AllStars, not Pro Bowls. No ALF star made a Pro Bowl until the ‘70 merger.

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9 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Well, if you’re gonna get all technical, the AFL had AllStars, not Pro Bowls. No ALF star made a Pro Bowl until the ‘70 merger.

 

 

alf.jpg

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