What RB cracks first?

[machine gun kelly]

Well Bell will never get that $14 million back, and ended up accepting less in NY than Pittsburgh offered the year before he held out.  You’d think these guys would learn their lesson.  The worst mistake these teams can make is forgiving these TC fines when they probably crack by the beginning of the season.

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, mrags said:

Contracts are contracts. You sign it. You deal with it. This holding out crap has to stop. Don’t sign a contract for the number of years they offer you then. 

You have no wiggle room with rookie contracts anymore - they’re slated. He has vastly outperformed the contract.

[MAJBobby]

16 hours ago, Chicharito said:

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

 

Teams sign Contracts too. Should they NOT honor them as well?  That argument holds ZERO water. So who cracks first?

 

Probably Gordon because as of right now there is a good RB already behind him. Lowering his leverage. 

 

Though if Dallas goes out and signs Theo Riddick after his release today they could also cut into Zeke leverage as well. 

[cage]

13 hours ago, mrags said:

Contracts are contracts. You sign it. You deal with it. This holding out crap has to stop. Don’t sign a contract for the number of years they offer you then. 

 

Aren't both playing on their rookie deals?  There's not much bargaining power there anymore when they sign ($ or years).  Rightly so, as the previous approach paid too much to rookies who hadn't done anything on the field yet (w/ a +50% bust rate).  As first round picks, they're in a bit of a unique position where the 5th year option for the team penalizes RBs especially hard.  RBs being so discardable, If either tore an ACL this year, they would forego their single, solitary chance at a big payday.  I really can't blame them for wanting this resolved now.  

[Punching Bag]

16 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

When the teams start honoring the contracts they hand out I'll be on board. Until then the players need to get paid as much as they can while they can.

 

They do honor them.  The ability to release them is part of contract and why they get signing bonuses.  If they do not like it they should fire their union, the NFLPA, and start a new one.

 

11 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

So if a team can franchise tag a player after he "honors his contract" with a designation he can only sign with them, on their terms.. effectively extending the contract he worked so hard to honor, why can't that player similarly seek a contract on their terms a year earlier? Why do contracts only have to be honored by the player while teams can cut him showing no such honor? Contract is a promise of future services for money. Either side can dispute if they aren't getting what they signed.

 

Because their union negotiated that wanting higher percentage of the pie.

 

Again blame the NFLPA.

11 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Rookies don't have that kind of negotiating power with the rookie wage scale.

 

Take it up with their labor union representatives. 

10 hours ago, mrags said:

Well they can hold out and not report and make nothing and use their degree in basket weaving to see if they can get a job making more money 

Yes holdout and come back in week 10 out of shape and sync but collect a full year's seniority.  The NFL owners really messed up on negotiating that part of contract.

[mrags]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

You have no wiggle room with rookie contracts anymore - they’re slated. He has vastly outperformed the contract.

Welcome to the nfl rookie. We have rules in place for a reason. Don’t like it, there’s always that basket weaving degree you have. 

2 hours ago, cage said:

 

Aren't both playing on their rookie deals?  There's not much bargaining power there anymore when they sign ($ or years).  Rightly so, as the previous approach paid too much to rookies who hadn't done anything on the field yet (w/ a +50% bust rate).  As first round picks, they're in a bit of a unique position where the 5th year option for the team penalizes RBs especially hard.  RBs being so discardable, If either tore an ACL this year, they would forego their single, solitary chance at a big payday.  I really can't blame them for wanting this resolved now.  

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

 

play baseball instead 

[cage]

58 minutes ago, mrags said:

Welcome to the nfl rookie. We have rules in place for a reason. Don’t like it, there’s always that basket weaving degree you have. 

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

 

play baseball instead 

 

not a convincing argument...

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, cage said:

 

not a convincing argument...

Neither is holding out of a contract that you signed 

Edited July 27, 2019 by mrags

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

This is not all that different with the success teams are having with Rookie QB contracts and how much money they save. The way the draft is structured and what the player gets paid by when he was drafted has given teams a huge advantage over the players now especially running backs. Look at how the patriots seemingly draft a new rb every year and when they want a contract the patriots send them packing. We are in a passing league now and the running back position has been seriously devalued and most teams don't have a every down back they do it by committee. It's a shame to see the end of an era we will not see the Emmitt Smiths and Ladanian Tomlinsons anymore they are ghosts now.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

This is not all that different with the success teams are having with Rookie QB contracts and how much money they save. The way the draft is structured and what the player gets paid by when he was drafted has given teams a huge advantage over the players now especially running backs. Look at how the patriots seemingly draft a new rb every year and when they want a contract the patriots send them packing. We are in a passing league now and the running back position has been seriously devalued and most teams don't have a every down back they do it by committee. It's a shame to see the end of an era we will not see the Emmitt Smiths and Ladanian Tomlinsons anymore they are ghosts now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Edited July 27, 2019 by GoBills808

[Mr. WEO]

20 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

When the teams start honoring the contracts they hand out I'll be on board. Until then the players need to get paid as much as they can while they can.

 

Those contracts say the player may be cut or traded before the contract expires.  So what is it that you’re talking about?

[cage]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

Neither is holding out of a contract that you signed 

 

They both have over performed their rookie contracts.  They both have leverage now and should use it given how perilous the opportunity is for RB in this league.  They're in their prime and the time to pay them is now.  That's the bottom line.

 

[BullBuchanan]

On 7/26/2019 at 4:02 PM, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Perhaps not released, but do you think they’ll succumb to his demands?  Particularly given Rivers’ comments to the media this week?   Sounds like he does not have the support of the locker room, and RB’s just don’t get paid the same way anymore (with Bell being an outlier).  The play seems to be to let your RB play out their rookie deal and then move on.

It's their choice whether they want to pay him or lose him for little to no value. I don't blame these RBs at all. I'd hold out immediately after a good season for more guaranteed $. The writing is on the wall that these teams abuse them time and time again, so you have to do the same as a player. Gotta get yours.

[mrags]

6 hours ago, cage said:

 

They both have over performed their rookie contracts.  They both have leverage now and should use it given how perilous the opportunity is for RB in this league.  They're in their prime and the time to pay them is now.  That's the bottom line.

 

Bottom line is they signed contracts and should honor them. If not, they can hold out and waste a year if their careers like that douche Bell. 

 

I hope they get their contracts and have career ending injuries. 

[Bing Bong]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:56 PM, Augie said:

I honestly don’t mean this in a bad way, but I’m guessing you have zero knowledge of contract law. The player agreed to this when they signed the deal. DONE. Get over it. 

SMH if you think this is about contract law. A contract is an agreement of fees for services. That's it... you're also allowed to re-negotiate contracts during it's length by holding out, or other means. The team agreed to this when they offered the deal. DONE. Get over it.

 

Fees for services. Both sides can get together to bang out a new one and it happens all the time.. in any profession. In many rarely is a contract honored, expected to be honored, nor is there any moral outrage when a contract is not honored. Stop assigning moral outrage to a piece of paper that more often than not does not reflect what will actually happen over the term.

 

On 7/26/2019 at 9:49 PM, Augie said:

No. That is NOT how contracts work. You don’t make a new one or terminate, the deal still stands. The TEAM owns the rights. No play, no pay.  Your view would be the exact opposite of a contract. 

The deal doesn't stand when you re-negotiate! Yes the last contract is binding.. until nixed by new negotiations. You understand that more often than not contracts do not end up at the originally agreed to length, original agreed to amount, a contract is really just telling you how much somebody is making at the very present. You and I both know this is very poor reflection of what earnings will actually be 5 years later on a 5 year deal. Because the team terminates the contract. Because both team and player will likely want a new mutual contract by then. Because the player no longer wants to play anymore. Fees for services.

 

You can't coerce a contract to be performed.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

SMH if you think this is about contract law. A contract is an agreement of fees for services. That's it... you're also allowed to re-negotiate contracts during it's length by holding out, or other means. The team agreed to this when they offered the deal. DONE. Get over it.

 

Fees for services. Both sides can get together to bang out a new one and it happens all the time.. in any profession. In many rarely is a contract honored, expected to be honored, nor is there any moral outrage when a contract is not honored. Stop assigning moral outrage to a piece of paper that more often than not does not reflect what will actually happen over the term.

 

The deal doesn't stand when you re-negotiate! Yes the last contract is binding.. until nixed by new negotiations. You understand that more often than not contracts do not end up at the originally agreed to length, original agreed to amount, a contract is really just telling you how much somebody is making at the very present. You and I both know this is very poor reflection of what earnings will actually be 5 years later on a 5 year deal. Because the team terminates the contract. Because both team and player will likely want a new mutual contract by then. Because the player no longer wants to play anymore. Fees for services.

 

You can't coerce a contract to be performed.

 

The team is under NO obligation to re-negotiate. If the player wants to sit, he can do so without pay. If the team decides it’s worth it, they can elect to re-negotiate. The player cannot make the team do this. It’s simple, really. 

[Bing Bong]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

The team is under NO obligation to re-negotiate. If the player wants to sit, he can do so without pay. If the team decides it’s worth it, they can elect to re-negotiate. The player cannot make the team do this. It’s simple, really. 

They re-negotiate to retain players.

 

I mean obviously Zeke and Gordon have little recourse here. But FOH with knowing contract law lol. Contract law can't coerce these guys into doing anything should they want to hold out. Players can win these if the team wants to maintain a positive future relationship within a reasonable amount. I don't particularly care but my opinions on RB contracts don't have anything to do with dry contract law. If the Hulk is a RB, he gets extended to what he wants because he's so good whoever has him pays no one else and watches Hulk smash. Hulk's leverage makes his holdout more impactful.

Edited August 5, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[BullBuchanan]

On 7/26/2019 at 3:31 PM, Chicharito said:

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

This is hilariously out of touch. Do you say the same thing to the owners who cut talent mid-way through contracts?
 

I'm all for these guys getting their money, because the owners will give them the least amount they have to. Holding out is their only option.

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

This is hilariously out of touch. Do you say the same thing to the owners who cut talent mid-way through contracts?
 

I'm all for these guys getting their money, because the owners will give them the least amount they have to. Holding out is their only option.

I don't understand the moral outrage assigned to completing a really dry piece of paper. This isn't some romantic use of honor. It's a contract detailing money in exchange for service. "But what about the honor!"

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 7/26/2019 at 4:31 PM, Chicharito said:

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

 

Because:

1) Le’veon set a new precedent.

 

2) RB life spans are so short

 

their agents are always going to push this way going forward until it backfires on one of these guys.