Josh Allen's progress

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, Looper said:

 

Spot on - how is another game of NFL experience a step back ? 

Because things he had done well last week, he did worse this week...he didn’t build upon last weeks progress by putting 2 solid games together in a row

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[nedboy7]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

Maybe you can go buy season tickets to the Browns for next year, that way you can cheer Tyrods clipboard holding skills from closer up.

 

I don’t hate ex Bills players like you do. Get lost fake fan. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by nedboy7

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

If this is how they keep that stat then it's a completely worthless stat.  If the ONLY definition of a drop is a chest high ball that goes off the hands then this is not the NFL but HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL.  Guys like Rodak fall in love with their metrics while completely ignoring what goes on in the game. 

 

So out of curiosity what would you call the Foster sun blinding?  Sure it's not a classic drop but come on.  Or how is the pass that went right through the hands of Thomas at the goal line NOT a drop?  This is why I don't trust analytics in football.  They suck in accurately describing what's going on. 

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

If this is how they keep that stat then it's a completely worthless stat.  If the ONLY definition of a drop is a chest high ball that goes off the hands then this is not the NFL but HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL.  Guys like Rodak fall in love with their metrics while completely ignoring what goes on in the game. 

 

So out of curiosity what would you call the Foster sun blinding?  Sure it's not a classic drop but come on.  Or how is the pass that went right through the hands of Thomas at the goal line NOT a drop?  This is why I don't trust analytics in football.  They suck in accurately describing what's going on. 

 

These are not his stats.  Foster never touched the ball and I don't believe Thomas did either.  

 

Both were excellent throws by Allen.

Edited December 24, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

These are not his stats.  Foster never touched the ball and I don't believe THomas did either.  

I get that but by using them he's telling me that he buys into them. 

 

Look the stat we're interested in seeing IMO are how many catchable balls are not being caught.  Sure dropping the ball is the easiest part of that to define but yesterday we saw two examples of VERY catchable balls not being caught for TD's.  Throw in Fosters misplay at the goal line on the 4th & 4 throw and we're talking about 3 potential TD's being left on the field.

 

But my biggest problem with a lot of these stats are that they don't do a good job of capturing what is happening on the field.  It's like praising a RB for having a 5 YPC average in a game where he carried the ball 16 times for 80 years with one of the plays being an 80 yard run.  I just don't think Football lends itself to analytics in the same way that baseball does. 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, billspro said:

 

Not a short yardage check down offence. But when all the defenders drop back into deeper coverage he has to make them pay and hit the RB in the flat to keep them honest.

 

I agree, I would like to see that incorporated into the offense more. A run game will keep defenses honest too. Right now it almost looks like Allen is being coached to push the ball down the field. I don't always even see a check down option. I wonder if they are telling him to throw the ball down field and make it a learning experience. Wins don't matter at this point. The development of Josh Allen is way more important and they might be okay with him making mistakes if he is learning the game. I imagine it is easier to insert more check downs next year than teach the QB how to make big plays.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

I get that but by using them he's telling me that he buys into them. 

 

Look the stat we're interested in seeing IMO are how many catchable balls are not being caught.  Sure dropping the ball is the easiest part of that to define but yesterday we saw two examples of VERY catchable balls not being caught for TD's.  Throw in Fosters misplay at the goal line on the 4th & 4 throw and we're talking about 3 potential TD's being left on the field.

 

But my biggest problem with a lot of these stats are that they don't do a good job of capturing what is happening on the field.  It's like praising a RB for having a 5 YPC average in a game where he carried the ball 16 times for 80 years with one of the plays being an 80 yard run.  I just don't think Football lends itself to analytics in the same way that baseball does. 

 

That was not a good throw and Allen took a risk by checking to that play without delivering a good pass.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

It would be a great time to re-examine Allen’s Scouting Reports that were being released Pre-Draft.  Just to see what the evaluators were seeing as his Pros and Cons coming into the league agaisnt where he is after his first season.

 

Didn't you start the thread about how you'd like Allen to stay in the pocket and throw the ball even if it leads to mistakes? It looks like that's exactly what he's been doing the past 2 games.

 

The pre-draft report on Allen was that it would take a year or two for him to develop because of how raw he was. If he doesn't progress from his current level he will not be a franchise QB, to state the obvious. I don't think his flaws are unfixable. Accuracy is not nearly as bad as I expected. Mobility and arm strength are even better than I expected. My biggest concern is his ability to read defenses but that's the kind of thing that often fixes itself over time with experience. If he can learn to make the right throw at the right time I think he will be great even if his accuracy never improves from where it is now.

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

One recorded drop yesterday?  No way

 

We can go ahead and stop posting drop stats. I've had issues with the way they're recorded for years. Incompletions that any reasonable person would call a drop are not considered drops by the statistics. Watch other games and you won't see anything approaching the level of incompetency you get from our receivers. I don't need an ESPN stats intern to tell me otherwise.

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Foster never touched the ball and I don't believe Thomas did either.  

 

Foster touched the ball but I can understand not calling that one a drop. This one however is inexcusable:

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not true at all. I have been objective every time he has pulled on a Bills jersey and will continue to be. Josh was not good at all yesterday. He was very good indeed last week. 

 

That is normal for rookie Quarterbacks. But neither of those assessments if his performances have anything to do with my pre-draft assessment. 

 

Sorry Bill, I think you misunderstood what I was saying.  I didn’t mean anything negative or that you were negatively biased towards him, just meant you’re going to more objective on your critiques rather than heavier on the optimism.  OP was talking about how he sees him more favorably than you.  So was pointing out, that the difference was he was looking from more optimism glasses while you are more grounded in objectively analyzing him week to week.  And certainly a very fair and reasonable place to be too.

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, dickleyjones said:

homer posts? you said there were "he doesn't need to improve" posts. but why stay on topic when you can insult instead.

 

 

There are plenty of posts that assume he's going to drastically improve. That's pretty much the same thing.

 

He needs to improve and he will isn't much different than he doesn't need to improve.

[JoPar_v2]

5 hours ago, dickleyjones said:

homer posts? you said there were "he doesn't need to improve" posts. but why stay on topic when you can insult instead.

 

 

 

There are plenty of posters here that defend the guy to the death. Which is a bit weird when he has shown flashes but hasn’t really proven anything yet. Again, if you haven’t seen or acknowledged these idiots you’re either oblivious or one of them. No time for homers and/or retards.

[Seventeen]

39 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

There are plenty of posters here that defend the guy to the death. Which is a bit weird when he has shown flashes but hasn’t really proven anything yet. Again, if you haven’t seen or acknowledged these idiots you’re either oblivious or one of them. No time for homers and/or retards.

 

I defend him because he's a rookie playing on a POS team. Go look up how some of the greats did in their first season. No one is saying he doesn't need to improve. 

[oldmanfan]

A rookie QB losing to the Pats when on the road, against the genius Belichick, is neither alarming nor any predictor of a young QBs future.

[26CornerBlitz]

Howard Simon:

 

Allen had his usual handful of off-target throws and, again, showed a refusal, at times, to take what the defense is giving him by throwing a check down pass. Former NFL coach Bruce Arians, who was working the telecast for CBS, said Allen needs to learn to play the game from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards. Arians said Allen loves to play 30-to-50 yards, but he needs to get the ball out faster and just get completions. Arians said he would tell Allen that not every play can be a 25-yard chunk pass.

[billsfan1959]

27 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Howard Simon:

 

Allen had his usual handful of off-target throws and, again, showed a refusal, at times, to take what the defense is giving him by throwing a check down pass. Former NFL coach Bruce Arians, who was working the telecast for CBS, said Allen needs to learn to play the game from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards. Arians said Allen loves to play 30-to-50 yards, but he needs to get the ball out faster and just get completions. Arians said he would tell Allen that not every play can be a 25-yard chunk pass.

He does need to do a better job, at times, of taking what is there and I believe that will come with more experience. However, I love that he wants that 30-50 yard chunk first - and I hope he never loses that.

[Magox]

19 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Foster touched the ball but I can understand not calling that one a drop. This one however is inexcusable:

 

 

Foster definitely touched the ball but it would have been a tough catch to make, however Foster did slightly mistimed his jump and he could have made the catch.  I wont blame him for it because it would have been a phenomenal catch.  The ball placement was about a foot or two too much to the inside.

 

The Logan play should have been caught and most decent TE's will make that play 8 out of 10 opportunities.

[Kemp]

20 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Didn't you start the thread about how you'd like Allen to stay in the pocket and throw the ball even if it leads to mistakes? It looks like that's exactly what he's been doing the past 2 games.

 

The pre-draft report on Allen was that it would take a year or two for him to develop because of how raw he was. If he doesn't progress from his current level he will not be a franchise QB, to state the obvious. I don't think his flaws are unfixable. Accuracy is not nearly as bad as I expected. Mobility and arm strength are even better than I expected. My biggest concern is his ability to read defenses but that's the kind of thing that often fixes itself over time with experience. If he can learn to make the right throw at the right time I think he will be great even if his accuracy never improves from where it is now.

 

We can go ahead and stop posting drop stats. I've had issues with the way they're recorded for years. Incompletions that any reasonable person would call a drop are not considered drops by the statistics. Watch other games and you won't see anything approaching the level of incompetency you get from our receivers. I don't need an ESPN stats intern to tell me otherwise.

 

Who is a comparable to Allen in terms of "raw" in college that went on to a great NFL career?

 

Doesn't "raw" mean not very good?