Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
kbarrettb

Good Head Coaches

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Who is up for a contract? I can't think of anyone. Nothing I said was false, nothing. Seems you're arguing with me over an opinion or statement I did not make, really weird. 

That is what struck me about the debate. If you aren’t going to spend the savings why create them to such a large extent? Process is all about the draft pick, which requires losing while watching a lot of film?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Rivera is a pretty good coach, also Marvin Lewis despite the playoff failures. Tomlin. Harbaugh. Just off the top of my head, quite a few super bowl appearances there 

Rivera is a good head coach. Marvin ehh ask a Bengals fan they want him gone. Tomlin is a defensive head coach but he didn't bring his defense he kept the defensive scheme as when he got there, if you read stuff on Tomlin he is much more an overseer as someone that puts in his play book. John Harbaugh was a special teams coach before becoming a head coach.

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Weird, 14 of the last 20 SB's have been won by defensive Head Coaches... 

Weird, the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history had defensive HC's...

 

- How many playoff appearances does Brees have over last 8 years?  Despite 5000 yard season after 5000 yard season?  Hint:  not many

- How many SB appearances does Rogers, Brees and Ryan have?  1 each.

- How did the highest scoring offense in NFL history do in the SB after going 17-0 in reg season?  Put up 14 points and lost to a defensive team.

- How did the second highest scoring team in the league in 2011 do in the SB in a rematch of above SB?  Put up 17 points and lost to same defensive team.

- How did defensive minded Harbaugh do against offensive minded brother Harbaugh in SB?  Defensive minded won with mediocre offense.

- How did Brady avoid going 1-4 in his last 5 SB's?  Butler intercepted a pass on last play of game when Seattle foolishly didn't run on the goaline...otherwise Pats lose again to defensive minded team.  And had Atlanta not mismanaged the other SB, Pats should have lost that one too thanks to Atlanta Defense.

- How did Brady do last year setting Super Bowl passing records?  Still lost despite setting all kinds of SB records

- Who was the head coach of the all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  John Fox - Defensive HC

- Who was the head coach of the 2nd all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  Bill Belicheck - Defensive HC

 

I mean there are a lot of pieces of evidence that contradict your opinion on this matter.

 

TRUTH IS:  There are a LOT of ways to win today.  Offense is the trendy word of the day, but this isnt fantasy football.  We all want a fun offense to watch, but this false narrative that you need a offensive minded HC is just a trendy fan opinion and not really accurate.

 

Let's go with each argument. 

Brees has been to the playoffs more times than not and has won a super bowl

Rodgers Brees and Ryan have been to super bowl once. How many times have they been to the playoffs? 

So you are saying the 16-0 regular season Patriots weren't good because they didn't win the super bowl? HAHA ok....

John Harbaugh was a special teams coach

Brady has gone 5-2 in super bowls and look at his numbers, just because the defense made one play means nothing

brady put up 500 yards passing i think he did ok 

John Fox was the head coach but Peyton Manning was the QB and they fired Fox and made the OC the head coach and they won the super bowl the next year. That was easy.

Bill Bellichik look at the numbers of brady when he had this OC rather then when they didn't have McDaniels. Bill is a mastermind of scheme and changes the playbook to fit who they are playing no other coach in football does this. Also Bill is the greatest coach of all time. He is the unicorn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kbarrettb said:

Rivera is a good head coach. Marvin ehh ask a Bengals fan they want him gone. Tomlin is a defensive head coach but he didn't bring his defense he kept the defensive scheme as when he got there, if you read stuff on Tomlin he is much more an overseer as someone that puts in his play book. John Harbaugh was a special teams coach before becoming a head coach.

Let's go with each argument. 

Brees has been to the playoffs more times than not and has won a super bowl

Rodgers Brees and Ryan have been to super bowl once. How many times have they been to the playoffs? 

So you are saying the 16-0 regular season Patriots weren't good because they didn't win the super bowl? HAHA ok....

John Harbaugh was a special teams coach

Brady has gone 5-2 in super bowls and look at his numbers, just because the defense made one play means nothing

brady put up 500 yards passing i think he did ok 

John Fox was the head coach but Peyton Manning was the QB and they fired Fox and made the OC the head coach and they won the super bowl the next year. That was easy.

Bill Bellichik look at the numbers of brady when he had this OC rather then when they didn't have McDaniels. Bill is a mastermind of scheme and changes the playbook to fit who they are playing no other coach in football does this. Also Bill is the greatest coach of all time. He is the unicorn.

 

Several of your “facts” are wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I know is the days of 100M contracts to players like Mario Williams & Dareus are over for the Bills. I'm not expecting them to come anywhere near the 90M this season but please start giving life support to our offense.

Edited by LABILLBACKER

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Best Player Available said:

Seriously? " If he can field even a COMPLETELY average offense we're golden" 

Golden what? please enlighten us on how an average offense is golden in this era of NFL football. 

BTW, the Bills are around 4th in available cap nest year. And a lot of those 10 picks are

in later rounds. Every team in the league will make improvements. 90 M is not going to flip this trash offense. in a year. 

The Panthers don't have 90M worth of trash FA's to help Beane out. 

I do believe we can improve enough to have an ok offense and with this defense I think we could really play some good competitive football. Defense is our identity, we just need an offense that can put up 21pts and we will be a playoff team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Rivera is a pretty good coach, also Marvin Lewis despite the playoff failures. Tomlin. Harbaugh. Just off the top of my head, quite a few super bowl appearances there 

 

 

Yeah. Zimmer's good. Quinn's really good.

 

Offensive guys are the latest trend, but the bottom line is that it's not which side a guy comes from, it's how good a head coach he is.

 

7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

We cut or traded almost every rookie contract more than 18 months old. We are spending on outside talent 

 

 

We did that cutting and trading in a salary cap purge and because a number of guys didn't fit the system.

 

They've made it very clear they will build through the draft and fill in with FAs, but not highly-priced ones. And this is the blueprint of nearly every team that's been consistently successful in the NFL in the last fifteen or twenty years.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

 

Who is up for a contract? I can't think of anyone.

 

 

 

Who is up for a contract?

 

Kelvin Benjamin. I get it if people don't want to re-sign him, but he's up. If he comes cheap, who knows?

 

Jordan Phillips. He's looked really good.

 

Eddie Yarbrough. IMHO they'd really like to keep him.

 

Lorax. He won't get anything long-term but I bet they'd love to keep him another year or two.

 

Derek Anderson. They might want to keep him as a QB mentor for Josh.

 

John Miller, Jordan Mills, Ryan Groy and Jeremiah Sirles. Not a lot of cornerstones there, but they might easily want to keep a couple of these guys, with the intention of bringing in guys who will outplay them and make them second-teamers.

 

Terrelle Pryor. Not sure what he is, at this point but they could easily want to keep him.

 

Guys who they might want to re-sign this off-season or during the year next year rather than wait till they become FAs in 2020:  Chris Ivory. McCoy, though I doubt it. Bodine, Ducasse, Hughes, Julian Stanford.

 

No, they won't sign all of them, not a chance. But many? Yeah, the ones they think fit. Would that take $90 mill? Not even close, of course. But do they have to spend all of it? Or even 90%? Nope. The league as a whole has to spend 90% of it's cap, but that isn't usually a problem. Look at the Browns and Colts, who each still have more than $50 mill on the cap right now. SF has $36 mill and Tennessee $23 mill. The salary cap is $177 mill this year and the Jets still have $19 mill. That's five teams that spent less than 90% this year. We may well be one of those teams next year.

 

But I'd expect them to bring in a bunch of low- and mid-priced guys to fill holes and build depth.

 

Spending it won't be a problem. But if they have a bunch left, that's also not a problem.

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Who is up for a contract?

 

Kelvin Benjamin. I get it if people don't want to re-sign him, but he's up. If he comes cheap, who knows?

 

Jordan Phillips. He's looked really good.

 

Eddie Yarbrough. IMHO they'd really like to keep him.

 

Lorax. He won't get anything long-term but I bet they'd love to keep him another year or two.

 

Derek Anderson. They might want to keep him as a QB mentor for Josh.

 

John Miller, Jordan Mills, Ryan Groy and Jeremiah Sirles. Not a lot of cornerstones there, but they might easily want to keep a couple of these guys, with the intention of bringing in guys who will outplay them and make them second-teamers.

 

Terrelle Pryor. Not sure what he is, at this point but they could easily want to keep him.

 

Guys who they might want to re-sign this off-season or during the year next year rather than wait till they become FAs in 2020:  Chris Ivory. McCoy, though I doubt it. Bodine, Ducasse, Hughes, Julian Stanford.

 

No, they won't sign all of them, not a chance. But many? Yeah, the ones they think fit. Would that take $90 mill? Not even close, of course. But do they have to spend all of it? Or even 90%? Nope. The league as a whole has to spend 90% of it's cap, but that isn't usually a problem. Look at the Browns and Colts, who each still have more than $50 mill on the cap right now. SF has $36 mill and Tennessee $23 mill. The salary cap is $177 mill this year and the Jets still have $19 mill. That's five teams that spent less than 90% this year. We may well be one of those teams next year.

 

But I'd expect them to bring in a bunch of low- and mid-priced guys to fill holes and build depth.

 

Spending it won't be a problem. But if they have a bunch left, that's also not a problem.

 

 

I'd take Lorax and Jordan Phillips for sure, but if you go back to my post it was in response to the idea that the 90 million in cap is going towards our own players which is absolutely not true. No offense and please don't take this personally but 90% of the players you listed are #1 garbage and #2 cheap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

I'd take Lorax and Jordan Phillips for sure, but if you go back to my post it was in response to the idea that the 90 million in cap is going towards our own players which is absolutely not true. No offense and please don't take this personally but 90% of the players you listed are #1 garbage and #2 cheap.

 

 

I wouldn't take personally a statement that is opinion and not really very thoughtful opinion. Please don't worry about my feelings, and don't take this personally yourself. Why would I take offense at something that I think is mostly wrong? One or two might be (relatively) garbage. Some might not fit. Some might be replaced cheaper. Some might be cheap to sign. And there are also some guys who are good and will cost some money.  I mentioned Jerry Hughes, Jordan Phillips, Eddie Yarbrough, a year or two of Lorax and guys who could easily become more expensive depending how they play the next year or so such as Julian Stanford, Ducasse and Terrelle Pryor. They could very easily and reasonably spend a pretty good chunk of money on this group and an extra $2 to $5 mill on a few of the cheaper guys as well.

 

And the guy you were responding to in no way said that the whole $90 mill is going towards our own players. So if that's what you were responding to, you were missing the point.

 

And again, as I pointed out, there is no requirement for them to spend all or most of the $90 mill next year.

Edited by Thurman#1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I wouldn't take a statement that is opinion and not very thoughtful opinion personally at all. Why would I take offense at something that I think is mostly wrong?

Dude, just take a break.  If you are straight-up unable to post without being condescending, stop posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Dude, just take a break.  If you are straight-up unable to post without being condescending, stop posting.

 

 

Good advice. Add the words "... condescending and insulting ..." and you should strongly consider it yourself.

Edited by Thurman#1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

Really?  ‘Cause I’m fairly certain that ‘bama could beat these Bills.

 

Hell , UB could probably beat these Bills.

 

Asinine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah. Zimmer's good. Quinn's really good.

 

Offensive guys are the latest trend, but the bottom line is that it's not which side a guy comes from, it's how good a head coach he is.

 

 

 

We did that cutting and trading in a salary cap purge and because a number of guys didn't fit the system.

 

They've made it very clear they will build through the draft and fill in with FAs, but not highly-priced ones. And this is the blueprint of nearly every team that's been consistently successful in the NFL in the last fifteen or twenty years.

 

Gutting the roster of every day 1 or 2 pick they didn’t oersonally make is not the blueprint. To do it that quickly is a major outlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Weird, 14 of the last 20 SB's have been won by defensive Head Coaches... 

Weird, the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history had defensive HC's...

 

- How many playoff appearances does Brees have over last 8 years?  Despite 5000 yard season after 5000 yard season?  Hint:  not many

- How many SB appearances does Rogers, Brees and Ryan have?  1 each.

- How did the highest scoring offense in NFL history do in the SB after going 17-0 in reg season?  Put up 14 points and lost to a defensive team.

- How did the second highest scoring team in the league in 2011 do in the SB in a rematch of above SB?  Put up 17 points and lost to same defensive team.

- How did defensive minded Harbaugh do against offensive minded brother Harbaugh in SB?  Defensive minded won with mediocre offense.

- How did Brady avoid going 1-4 in his last 5 SB's?  Butler intercepted a pass on last play of game when Seattle foolishly didn't run on the goaline...otherwise Pats lose again to defensive minded team.  And had Atlanta not mismanaged the other SB, Pats should have lost that one too thanks to Atlanta Defense.

- How did Brady do last year setting Super Bowl passing records?  Still lost despite setting all kinds of SB records

- Who was the head coach of the all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  John Fox - Defensive HC

- Who was the head coach of the 2nd all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  Bill Belicheck - Defensive HC

 

I mean there are a lot of pieces of evidence that contradict your opinion on this matter.

 

TRUTH IS:  There are a LOT of ways to win today.  Offense is the trendy word of the day, but this isnt fantasy football.  We all want a fun offense to watch, but this false narrative that you need a offensive minded HC is just a trendy fan opinion and not really accurate.

 

Game has changed even since McDermott was hired. Also your using Bellichick as just a defensive guy to prove your point. Thats his offense Pats have been running for the past 18 years.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, kbarrettb said:

So I have wanted to bring this up but didn't have time. The NFL is an offensive lead I think we can all agree to this or at least agree mostly about this. I was talking to a friend and we were talking about good head coaches and then we were talking about what side of the offensive defensive or special teams they coached before becoming head coaches. It got me thinking I don't hate McDermott I just think there are so few defensive good coaches in the league and in the league historically. We could only come up with Pete Carrol and Bill Belichick who were great head coaches who were defensive minded.

 

Total there are 21 Offensive head coaches 10 defensive head coaches and 1 special team head coach. Out of those coaches there are much more good coaches on the offensive side of the ball then there are defensive good head coaches.  I just think with the way the NFL is today you need a good offensive coach as the head coach. You can always find defensive coaches. But if you have a superior Offensive Coordinator the second he has a good year or even just people interested in him he is gone and he is basically taking your offensive system with him which messes with the QB if you have a good offensive head coach he runs his system he is there for the duration. 

 

A few off the top of my head: Mike Ditka - had the best Defense in the '85 Bears in the history of the NFL (statistically speaking); Bill Cowher, Bill Parcells, Tom Landry (Defensive Coordinator first with Giants), John Madden who started with Oakland as a Linebackers Coach, George Allen, Tony Dungy modernized and popularized the Tampa-2 Defense and won because of it, Bud Grant, and Chuck Noll (Steel Curtain D).

 

Now in modern NFL, Offenses are king - driven by the QB, but to say that Defenses can't win championships or that Offenses are the only way good HCs are made, to me is overly simplistic and patently false. McD needs to have Beane get him play-makers on Offense, and I think they will get them, but it's long from determined how this era in the Buffalo Bills story will end. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Who is up for a contract? I can't think of anyone. Nothing I said was false, nothing. Seems you're arguing with me over an opinion or statement I did not make, really weird. 

You said Pegula will need to put financial restraints on them because you just assume that they are going to go out and blow $90 million in cap space on bloated contracts when the two have said all along that they plan to build through the draft. 

 

Pegula won't need to put financial restraints on them because their philosophy on how to build a team, right or wrong, isn't about overspending in free agency. 

17 hours ago, MPT said:

 

What else would they say? That they're going to squander $90 million on overpriced free agents? 

 

Judging by the constant turnover of GM's in sports, I think it's far more ignorant to blindly assume that one will accomplish his goals just because he said it in a press conference. 

Of course, they aren't going to say that. However, they could say things like wanting to bring in top talent through free agency. That they don't value draft picks as highly, and so on. Except, they have never said anything of the like, which is why NewDayBills first post was so miss informed. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I wouldn't take personally a statement that is opinion and not really very thoughtful opinion. Please don't worry about my feelings, and don't take this personally yourself. Why would I take offense at something that I think is mostly wrong? One or two might be (relatively) garbage. Some might not fit. Some might be replaced cheaper. Some might be cheap to sign. And there are also some guys who are good and will cost some money.  I mentioned Jerry Hughes, Jordan Phillips, Eddie Yarbrough, a year or two of Lorax and guys who could easily become more expensive depending how they play the next year or so such as Julian Stanford, Ducasse and Terrelle Pryor. They could very easily and reasonably spend a pretty good chunk of money on this group and an extra $2 to $5 mill on a few of the cheaper guys as well.

 

And the guy you were responding to in no way said that the whole $90 mill is going towards our own players. So if that's what you were responding to, you were missing the point.

 

And again, as I pointed out, there is no requirement for them to spend all or most of the $90 mill next year.

Wrong. He said the 90 million would go to homegrown talent yet there is no homegrown talent to sign.

 

As I have pointed out, they will not spend right up to the cap, not only is there no requirement to spend the money but there will be no permission to do so.

 

Hope that answers everything. Everything else you said is pretty much dicky and arrogant when I've completely treated you with nothing but class and respect. You have no honor and are not a man. You quote me quite often, if you don't like what I say, just keep it moving. We definitely definitely definitely do not need to be friends, at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been 18 years since we had a good head coach, and we fired him for 8-8 after making the playoffs multiple years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Weird, 14 of the last 20 SB's have been won by defensive Head Coaches... 

Weird, the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history had defensive HC's...

 

- How many playoff appearances does Brees have over last 8 years?  Despite 5000 yard season after 5000 yard season?  Hint:  not many

- How many SB appearances does Rogers, Brees and Ryan have?  1 each.

- How did the highest scoring offense in NFL history do in the SB after going 17-0 in reg season?  Put up 14 points and lost to a defensive team.

- How did the second highest scoring team in the league in 2011 do in the SB in a rematch of above SB?  Put up 17 points and lost to same defensive team.

- How did defensive minded Harbaugh do against offensive minded brother Harbaugh in SB?  Defensive minded won with mediocre offense.

- How did Brady avoid going 1-4 in his last 5 SB's?  Butler intercepted a pass on last play of game when Seattle foolishly didn't run on the goaline...otherwise Pats lose again to defensive minded team.  And had Atlanta not mismanaged the other SB, Pats should have lost that one too thanks to Atlanta Defense.

- How did Brady do last year setting Super Bowl passing records?  Still lost despite setting all kinds of SB records

- Who was the head coach of the all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  John Fox - Defensive HC

- Who was the head coach of the 2nd all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  Bill Belicheck - Defensive HC

 

I mean there are a lot of pieces of evidence that contradict your opinion on this matter.

 

TRUTH IS:  There are a LOT of ways to win today.  Offense is the trendy word of the day, but this isnt fantasy football.  We all want a fun offense to watch, but this false narrative that you need a offensive minded HC is just a trendy fan opinion and not really accurate.

 

Here are the results the past 5 years though Alpha:

 

2018- Chiefs averaging 36.3, NO at 34.9, Rams at 33.2, NE at 30.0. Common theme? Fair to say they are the top 4 teams in football now.

 

2017- Phili was the number 1 offence at 29.0 per game. Number 2 was NE at 28.9. Outcome? Shoot out in the SB and Phili wins.

 

2016-  Atlanta was number 1 at 34.1 per game. NE was number 3 at 28.7. Outcome? Shoot out in the super bowl between those teams and NE wins. 

 

2015- Carolina was number 1 at 31.1 per game. Denver was 18th at 22.2per game. Outcome? Denver wins a low scoring one in the SB

 

2014- NE was number 1 at 30.4 per game. Seattle was 9th at 25.2 per game. Outcome? NE wins a high scoring game in the SB

 

The only anamaly there is Denver in 2015. Besides that every other team had a top 3 offence with the exception of Seattle, but even they were still

top 10.

 

So if your overall point is you don’t need to have a offensive COACH to win, that’s somewhat fair because not all those coaches are “offensive “. But I don’t think it’s fair to say you don’t need a very good offence to win in the NFL now. (I am

not sure what your main argument was so don’t want to put words in your mouth)

 

The stats above show that offensive teams dominate the NFL now, so I would much prefer taking my chances by hiring an offensive guy to build and lead through a powerful offence.

Edited by billsfan11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Here are the results the past 5 years though Alpha:

 

2018- Chiefs averaging 36.3, NO at 34.9, Rams at 33.2, NE at 30.0. Common theme? Fair to say they are the top 4 teams in football now.

 

2017- Phili was the number 1 offence at 29.0 per game. Number 2 was NE at 28.9. Outcome? Shoot out in the SB and Phili wins.

 

2016-  Atlanta was number 1 at 34.1 per game. NE was number 3 at 28.7. Outcome? Shoot out in the super bowl between those teams and NE wins. 

 

2015- Carolina was number 1 at 31.1 per game. Denver was 18th at 22.2per game. Outcome? Denver wins a low scoring one in the SB

 

2014- NE was number 1 at 30.4 per game. Seattle was 9th at 25.2 per game. Outcome? NE wins a high scoring game in the SB

 

The only anamaly there is Denver in 2015. Besides that every other team had a top 3 offence with the exception of Seattle, but even they were still

top 10.

 

So if your overall point is you don’t need to have a offensive COACH to win, that’s somewhat fair because not all those coaches are “offensive “. But I don’t think it’s fair to say you don’t need a very good offence to win in the NFL now. (I am

not sure what your main argument was so don’t want to put words in your mouth)

 

The stats above show that offensive teams dominate the NFL now, so I would much prefer taking my chances by hiring an offensive guy to build and lead through a powerful offence.

 

I didn’t say you didn’t need a good offense.  They said you must have an offensive minded HC...I said it’s not statistically or factual and there are many ways you can win the SB and an offensive minded HC is not a prerequisite.  

 

Top 2 scoring offenses in NFL history:  Both had Defensive HCs.

 

And you left a lot out there.  Atl couldn’t even make the playoffs until it got a defense.  You also only cited points, and not style of play.  Seattle was a defensive and power run team when it was 9th in scoring, including defensive scores.  For example, Bills under TT in 2016 (remember he sat week 16) through first 15 games were 3rd in NFL in touchdowns (behind only Saints and Atl by just 3 TDS) and 5th in scoring in the NFL.  Did we have a offensive minded HC with a prolific pass attack?  Nope...we scored on ground 

 

Sorry, but your statements lack the context to relate to the cries of everyone over a offensive HC and prolific pass attack.  Another example...Carolina did a ton of those points in their ground game and had a tough defense led byour own McD.

 

14 of the last 20 SBs had a champion led by a defensive minded HC.  The most prolific offense in NFL history at the time went 17-0 and the scores just 14 points to lose in the SB.  Same Pats scoring juggernaught repeated that defeat putting up just 17 points to that defensive minded team again.  

 

No disrespect, but 2018 is meaningless.  No champion has been crowned yet, for all we know Baltimore could repeat what they did when they beat SF again this year and ride a stout defense and mediocre offense to a title.  We have no idea who is gonna win.  I agree with you who the favorites are, but until someone wins there isnt anything we can accurately say about this year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn’t say you didn’t need a good offense.  They said you must have an offensive minded HC...I said it’s not statistically or factual and there are many ways you can win the SB and an offensive minded HC is not a prerequisite.  

 

Top 2 scoring offenses in NFL history:  Both had Defensive HCs.

 

And you left a lot out there.  Atl couldn’t even make the playoffs until it got a defense.  You also only cited points, and not style of play.  Seattle was a defensive and power run team when it was 9th in scoring, including defensive scores.  For example, Bills under TT in 2016 (remember he sat week 16) through first 15 games were 3rd in NFL in touchdowns (behind only Saints and Atl by just 3 TDS) and 5th in scoring in the NFL.  Did we have a offensive minded HC with a prolific pass attack?  Nope...we scored on ground 

 

Sorry, but your statements lack the context to relate to the cries of everyone over a offensive HC and prolific pass attack.  Another example...Carolina did a ton of those points in their ground game and had a tough defense led byour own McD.

 

14 of the last 20 SBs had a champion led by a defensive minded HC.  The most prolific offense in NFL history at the time went 17-0 and the scores just 14 points to lose in the SB.  Same Pats scoring juggernaught repeated that defeat putting up just 17 points to that defensive minded team again.  

 

No disrespect, but 2018 is meaningless.  No champion has been crowned yet, for all we know Baltimore could repeat what they did when they beat SF again this year and ride a stout defense and mediocre offense to a title.  We have no idea who is gonna win.  I agree with you who the favorites are, but until someone wins there isnt anything we can accurately say about this year. 

Ok if you’re saying you can win with a defensive minded head coach that’s fair. I would still take my chances with an offensive head coach but you’re right there are multiple ways to win.

 

In regards to my stats, it was to show you basically need an elite offence to win a super bowl in the past 4 years and probably 5 after this year.

 

I am not saying defence doesn’t matter. But it really doesn’t matter as much as offence. If I looked up the defences that went to the super bowl in the past 4 years and the elite teams of this year so far,  I can almost guarantee at the top of my head no one has even a top 5 defence with the exception of Denver. Maybeee Seattle?

 

Either way, stats show the past 4-5 years that it is way more important to have an elite offence rather than an elite defence. That’s pretty inarguable in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Gutting the roster of every day 1 or 2 pick they didn’t oersonally make is not the blueprint. To do it that quickly is a major outlier.

 

 

Day 1 or Day 2? So, rounds 1 - 3? Shaq Lawson says hi. He was picked in the 1st round by the Rexy administration. John Miller was a 3rd for Rexy. 

 

As for cutting so many, it may be unusual but the situation was unusual. They needed draft capital to trade up to bring in a QB and they were in awful cap shape. Both of those made it difficult to keep the roster together. 

 

And part of that is simply because we had done a terrible job of holding onto high draft picks in the previous years. A lot of that was because of the constant scheme changes causing decent players not to fit anymore. When McDermott came in, there were only these guys left on the team of previous 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders:

 

1) Lawson - still here

2) Ragland - didn't play well in the new scheme

3) Adolphus Washington - wasn't good enough

4) John Miller - still here

5) Darby - cap and scheme problems

6) Watkins - cap concerns and a need for draft capital to get a QB, production and injury concerns

7) Preston Brown - didn't make the team

eight) Robert Woods - cap concerns. Looking back, a bad decision IMHO

9) Stephon Gilmore - cap concerns. I hated this move but they had to cut cap

10) Cordy Glenn - future cap concerns and a need for draft capital

11) Marcell Dareus - couldn't get to meetings. But he also saved a ton of cap starting next year and hasn't played up to his salary even in Jax

12) Eric Wood - would still be here if not for the injury

 

Gone before McDermott got here: the 2015 1st rounder traded away for Watkins, Kiko Alonso, EJ Manuel, Cyrus Kouandjio, Marquise Goodwin, TJ Graham, Aaron Williams, Kelvin Sheppard CJ Spiller, Torell Troup, Alex Carrington, Aaron Maybin, Jairus Byrd, Andy Levitre, Leodis McKelvin, Chris Ellis, Trent Edwards, James Hardy, Marshawn and every other 1st or 2nd rounder that came before.

 

So out of all the previous 1st, 2nd and 3rd round choices, only 12 guys were left on the team before they came in.Out of those 12, Lawson and Miller are still there, so that leaves 10. Preston Brown, Adolphus Washington and Ragland didn't play well enough in the new scheme and we managed to get a pick for Ragland. That leaves 7. Dareus they wanted to keep but he made it impossible, Eric Wood was forced to retire.

 

That leaves five guys gone in two years that were there and might have been good enough to stay and play. Darby, Watkins, Woods, Gilmore and Glenn.  That's not some kind of extraordinary situation, especially as Darby didn't appear to fit the scheme and is having a bad year in Philly, though he may well improve again, Watkins is still underperforming his salary as he has every year, and Glenn had real injury concerns and we had a younger, cheaper guy we thought could play the position.

 

Not that extraordinary for a team that is rebuilding, a team that had promised the owners to straighten out the cap by the end of this year and needed draft capital to trade up in a QB-rich draft.

 

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Ok if you’re saying you can win with a defensive minded head coach that’s fair. I would still take my chances with an offensive head coach but you’re right there are multiple ways to win.

 

In regards to my stats, it was to show you basically need an elite offence to win a super bowl in the past 4 years and probably 5 after this year.

 

I am not saying defence doesn’t matter. But it really doesn’t matter as much as offence. If I looked up the defences that went to the super bowl in the past 4 years and the elite teams of this year so far,  I can almost guarantee at the top of my head no one has even a top 5 defence with the exception of Denver. Maybeee Seattle?

 

Either way, stats show the past 4-5 years that it is way more important to have an elite offence rather than an elite defence. That’s pretty inarguable in my opinion.

 

2017 champion Eagles: #7 offense, #4 defense

2016 champion Pats: #4 offense, #8 defense

2015 champion Broncos: #16 offense, #1 defense

2014 champion Pats: #11 offense, #13 defense

2013 champion Seahawks: #18 offense, #1 defense

 

Very arguable indeed. The defenses average a lot better than the offenses during the last five years that you mentioned.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Day 1 or Day 2? So, rounds 1 - 3? Shaq Lawson says hi. He was picked in the 1st round by the Rexy administration. John Miller was a 3rd for Rexy. 

 

As for cutting so many, it may be unusual but the situation was unusual. They needed draft capital to trade up to bring in a QB and they were in awful cap shape. Both of those made it difficult to keep the roster together. 

 

And part of that is simply because we had done a terrible job of holding onto high draft picks in the previous years. A lot of that was because of the constant scheme changes causing decent players not to fit anymore. When McDermott came in, there were only these guys left on the team of previous 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders:

 

1) Lawson - still here

2) Ragland - didn't play well in the new scheme

3) Adolphus Washington - wasn't good enough

4) John Miller - still here

5) Darby - cap and scheme problems

6) Watkins - cap concerns and a need for draft capital to get a QB, production and injury concerns

7) Preston Brown - didn't make the team

eight) Robert Woods - cap concerns. Looking back, a bad decision IMHO

9) Stephon Gilmore - cap concerns. I hated this move but they had to cut cap

10) Cordy Glenn - future cap concerns and a need for draft capital

11) Marcell Dareus - couldn't get to meetings. But he also saved a ton of cap starting next year and hasn't played up to his salary even in Jax

12) Eric Wood - would still be here if not for the injury

 

Gone before McDermott got here: the 2015 1st rounder traded away for Watkins, Kiko Alonso, EJ Manuel, Cyrus Kouandjio, Marquise Goodwin, TJ Graham, Aaron Williams, Kelvin Sheppard CJ Spiller, Torell Troup, Alex Carrington, Aaron Maybin, Jairus Byrd, Andy Levitre, Leodis McKelvin, Chris Ellis, Trent Edwards, James Hardy, Marshawn and every other 1st or 2nd rounder that came before.

 

So out of all the previous 1st, 2nd and 3rd round choices, only 12 guys were left on the team before they came in.Out of those 12, Lawson and Miller are still there, so that leaves 10. Preston Brown, Adolphus Washington and Ragland didn't play well enough in the new scheme and we managed to get a pick for Ragland. That leaves 7. Dareus they wanted to keep but he made it impossible, Eric Wood was forced to retire.

 

That leaves five guys gone in two years that were there and might have been good enough to stay and play. Darby, Watkins, Woods, Gilmore and Glenn.  That's not some kind of extraordinary situation, especially as Darby didn't appear to fit the scheme and is having a bad year in Philly, though he may well improve again, Watkins is still underperforming his salary as he has every year, and Glenn had real injury concerns and we had a younger, cheaper guy we thought could play the position.

 

Not that extraordinary for a team that is rebuilding, a team that had promised the owners to straighten out the cap by the end of this year and needed draft capital to trade up in a QB-rich draft.

 

 

 

 

Well, Goodwin left the same offseason as Robert woods. As well as the moves with kujo (actually late enough beane made the move) and Williams (I get, injury). I’m not saying we should’ve kept him but EJ was also McDermott’s first offseason.

 

it was an extraordinarily high number out the door in 12 months. You can nickel and dime the point with Shaq and miller being here but that it’s so few is out of the ordinary 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×