And more piling on.....

[Wayne Arnold]

17 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

So i guess we have to pay a tax for that fake playoff team we had.  Does anybody actually look at the 2017 Bills and think wow what a football team? The reality is Mcd has been outscored for 2 yrs now . He found a way to turn us into basically a expansion team.

 

You must not have been around the previous 17 seasons.

[JPP]

20 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

NHK, it is crazy when you think about it.

 

I mean...let's wrap our heads around "worst offense in NFL history"...no-no, don't go looking anything up, it is the worst.  congrats.

 

How do you become, not bad, not terrible, but the worst that has ever exited?!

 

Its abit of a complicated "process"

3 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I’m not normally a “no one wants to come to Buffalo” kind of guy. At all.

 

But honest to God - how could you possibly expect the Pegulas to convince any promising football coach with any other options at all to come here after firing their second HC they hired in four years just one season after snapping an 18 year playoff drought? Not to mention everything else - horrible roster, non-football factors, etc.

 

Seriously.

Gotta pay lotsa lotsa lotsa money!!

[xsoldier54]

38 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I couldn't care less about making the playoffs. I care about having a GM, Coach and players who can win a Super Bowl, and right now there's nothing that suggests we have any of those things.

 

Our coach loves to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory. He does it pretty much every opportunity he gets.

 

That's all you need to know about Sean McDermott's philosophy to coaching. That's not something any of Bill Belicick, Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Sean Payton do. 

Did you really think this team was going to win the SB this year?  And do you really think this team could get there in Beane/McDermott's second year on the job.  First really for Beane since he was hired after last year's draft.  If so, it's no wonder that you're disappointed.  I know patience is in short supply on this site, but c'mon man.  This team had way too many holes to compete for a championship.  I know it's frustrating to lose, but this team is nowhere near good enough to compete for a championshop regardless of who the coach and GM are.

[mabden]

34 minutes ago, wppete said:

This season has been depressing. Possible the worst I have ever seen. Anyone remember a season that has been worse recently? 

 

84' and 85' seasons.  85' was a great draft year though. 

[jrober38]

Just now, xsoldier54 said:

Did you really think this team was going to win the SB this year?  And do you really think this team could get there in Beane/McDermott's second year on the job.  First really for Beane since he was hired after last year's draft.  If so, it's no wonder that you're disappointed.  I know patience is in short supply on this site, but c'mon man.  This team had way too many holes to compete for a championship.  I know it's frustrating to lose, but this team is nowhere near good enough to compete for a championshop regardless of who the coach and GM are.

 

The team isn't competitive because the GM and HC have made the team non competitive. 

 

We have the worst offense in the history of the NFL adjusting for era. 

This has been a colossal failure and there's nothing that suggests these guys are going to get this team going in the right direction anytime soon. 

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

 

Sorry but you are wrong here.

 

No he’s not.

 

2 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

They went 9-7 last year ... somehow.   Don't make it a huge head coaching accomplishment.  Look back, several times the Bills were 9-7 during the drought.  He largely inherited that team.  This is a team that he helped create. Way too early to tar a feather him, but please stop with the making the playoffs at 9-7 is a great accomplishment talk.

 

They went 9-7 twice during the drought. In 2004 (legit) and 2014 thanks to Belichick benching Brady and his starters in the last game.

[billspro]

There nothing shocking about these numbers. 

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Because the process=tank, how haven’t everyone realized this 

 

If this was true they wouldn't have been trying to win in 2017. 

 

This is not a tank. These guys didn't go into this season thinking they'd be looking at 12 or more losses this season. 

[Boatdrinks]

They deserve all the jeers that come their way, just as they deserved last years kudos. Most teams don’t achieve a playoff berth then proceed to make the team exponentially worse. They are so horrible on one side of the ball that they cannot compete with the average team in the league. They inherited something to build on, but decided to toss it away. Amazing that just a few seasons ago the team seemed aboyt a QB away from being good. Now, if their chosen QB is good, he might have some players around him on offense in about 2 or 3 more seasons. If Beane and co. nail the draft and free agency, that is. 

[jrober38]

8 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I’m not normally a “no one wants to come to Buffalo” kind of guy. At all.

 

But honest to God - how could you possibly expect the Pegulas to convince any promising football coach with any other options at all to come here after firing their second HC they hired in four years just one season after snapping an 18 year playoff drought? Not to mention everything else - horrible roster, non-football factors, etc.

 

Seriously.

 

Don't we have a bunch of cap space and 10 draft picks?

 

How are McDermott and Beane going to convince any free agents to want to come here?

[row_33]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

I don't understand how a HC can survive presiding over the worst offense in NFL history. 

 

ownership has decided on a ground zero honest rebuild

 

i applaud this but it's going to be causing a lot of suffering the next 3 years

 

nothing i can't handle after 45 years with this team

 

 

[xsoldier54]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

The team isn't competitive because the GM and HC have made the team non competitive. 

 

We have the worst offense in the history of the NFL adjusting for era. 

This has been a colossal failure and there's nothing that suggests these guys are going to get this team going in the right direction anytime soon. 

BS.  This team was not competitive way before Beane or McDermott were hired.  They are building a team and that takes time.  This team has had so many losing seasons over the past few years, losing games this year means absolutely nothing.  They still have lots of draft picks this coming off season and I'm sure the offense will be addressed.  The D already is pretty good.    

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, xsoldier54 said:

Did you really think this team was going to win the SB this year?  And do you really think this team could get there in Beane/McDermott's second year on the job.  First really for Beane since he was hired after last year's draft.  If so, it's no wonder that you're disappointed.  I know patience is in short supply on this site, but c'mon man.  This team had way too many holes to compete for a championship.  I know it's frustrating to lose, but this team is nowhere near good enough to compete for a championshop regardless of who the coach and GM are.

Yet they were a QB and maybe a WR away from a divisional round playoff game just last season. Way to go, McBeane. Bravo!

[jrober38]

Just now, xsoldier54 said:

BS.  This team was not competitive way before Beane or McDermott were hired.  They are building a team and that takes time.  This team has had so many losing seasons over the past few years, losing games this year means absolutely nothing.  They still have lots of draft picks this coming off season and I'm sure the offense will be addressed.  The D already is pretty good.    

 

You obviously have a different definition of non competitive than I do.

[CodeMonkey]

43 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I couldn't care less about making the playoffs. I care about having a GM, Coach and players who can win a Super Bowl, and right now there's nothing that suggests we have any of those things.

 

Our coach loves to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory. He does it pretty much every opportunity he gets.

 

That's all you need to know about Sean McDermott's philosophy to coaching. That's not something any of Bill Belicick, Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Sean Payton do. 

 

It's pretty simple.  He trusts the defense much more that he trusts the offense.  Do you blame him?  He figures far more often that not, this offense will fail on 4th and anything.  Whereas giving the opposing offense a long field instead of a short one helps his D, which has a chance to get the stop.  It's actually logical, not a fan "go for it, what the *****' emotional response.

[NewEra]

Can’t wait til the offseason and for Pegulas to state that McBeane will return next season.  

 

This place is so toxic

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yet they were a QB and maybe a WR away from a divisional round playoff game just last season. Way to go, McBeane. Bravo!

 

 

you are all hepped up on any kind of playoff, not worth it

 

i want a building of an honest contender and that's what is going to happen now

 

 

[xsoldier54]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Yet they were a QB and maybe a WR away from a divisional round playoff game just last season. Way to go, McBeane. Bravo!

Did they win that playoff game?  Must have missed it.  And they were way more than one WR and a QB away from competing for a SB, but since you're the one that brought it up, one has already been addressed and I expect WR will be as well.  Having said that, with this OL, it wouldn't matter much who is playing those two positions. 

[jrober38]

Just now, CodeMonkey said:

 

It's pretty simple.  He trusts the defense much more that he trusts the offense.  Do you blame him?  He figures far more often that not, this offense will fail on 4th and anything.  Whereas giving the opposing offense a long field instead of a short one helps his D, which has a chance to get the stop.  It's actually logical, not a fan "go for it, what the *****' emotional response.

 

Last year the line was good and we had LeSean McCoy and McDermott still opted to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory 90% of the time.

 

What you're saying isn't in touch with what this coach has demonstrated numerous times over the past 26 games. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

You obviously have a different definition of non competitive than I do.

You’ve quickly become the worst, most shortsighted poster on the board.  Just terrible

[MDH]

41 minutes ago, wppete said:

This season has been depressing. Possible the worst I have ever seen. Anyone remember a season that has been worse recently? 

 

The posters who like losing for draft position hated last year. It was the worst season in 18 years.

[xsoldier54]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Last year the line was good and we had LeSean McCoy and McDermott still opted to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory 90% of the time.

 

What you're saying isn't in touch with what this coach has demonstrated numerous times over the past 26 games. 

You're going to have to do better than that.  Show me the stats of how many times he did this and what the game situations were, what was the score?  what quarter was the game in?  Every single coach in the NFL has done exactly what you are complaining about at some point, depending on the game situation.  If you're looking for a coach who will never punt on 4th and short on the other side of the fifty yard line, good luck with that.  You will NEVER find one.

[jrober38]

Just now, NewEra said:

You’ve quickly become the worst, most shortsighted poster on the board.  Just terrible

 

Nothing about what I'm saying is short sighted. 

 

We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time.

 

Our head coaches philosophy doesn't work in today's NFL. That's not going to suddenly change. 

 

We're talking about a guy who punted, and consciously played for a tie against the Colts last year instead of playing to win, even though a tie would have eliminated us from playoff contention. 

 

This is a guy who time and time again will not budge from his philosophy and it's a philosophy that doesn't win in the NFL anymore. 

[BigBuff423]

19 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The question then becomes who hires the OC? I'm fairly certain it's McDermott, so do we really want to let him hire a 3rd OC in 3 years?

 

Probably not. 

 

No, we're the laughing stock because we have the worst offense in NFL history adjusting for era. 

 

The team, and our inability to score points is why we're the laughing stock of the league right now. 

 

The outside world fails to appreciate what needs to be done....national media are the worst at this. We, as fans, should embrace this total tear down on Offense, because it's what we've known needed to be done for a decade. No HC and GM have had the stones to do just that....get rid of the driftwood, take on a rebuild and do it the way they believe it needs to be done - hell or high water. I respect that. I know you don't but at the end of the day, a man needs to lead with his conviction of ideals. That's admirable no matter how you slice it. 

 

Truth is, the Bills were several years behind the times when Wrex was here in revamping the Offense. The Offenses that are record-setting are ones that have taken two or more years to build. The Bills are in year 1 of tear down. Build up is next year and depth and power are year two. Sorry. But thems the brakes...

[CodeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Last year the line was good and we had LeSean McCoy and McDermott still opted to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory 90% of the time.

 

What you're saying isn't in touch with what this coach has demonstrated numerous times over the past 26 games. 

 

The offense last year was better, but not good.   Defense was the strength last season as well as this season (plus McCoach is a D guy).  The same argument holds, he trusts the D much more than the O, both seasons.  Obviously much more so this season given the current dumpster fire.

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, xsoldier54 said:

Did they win that playoff game?  Must have missed it.  And they were way more than one WR and a QB away from competing for a SB, but since you're the one that brought it up, one has already been addressed and I expect WR will be as well.  Having said that, with this OL, it wouldn't matter much who is playing those two positions. 

What I said was they were a QB and WR away from a divisional game. They lost the WC 10-3, courtesy of a lack of QB and WR play. Yes, they needed more work to be a serious SB contender, but they are much much further away from that now. The blame for that can be squarely laid at the feet of McDermott and Beane. Their decisions and missteps brought that about. 

[BigBuff423]

15 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

They went 9-7 last year ... somehow.   Don't make it a huge head coaching accomplishment.  Look back, several times the Bills were 9-7 during the drought.  He largely inherited that team.  This is a team that he helped create. Way too early to tar a feather him, but please stop with the making the playoffs at 9-7 is a great accomplishment talk.

 

I didn't say it was...it was in response to McD being fired and him needing to go and I pointed to an accomplishment no other HC has done since Wade. However you want to dissect it or make it excuses for why it should or shouldn't be...fact is he made the playoffs with an off-cast of talent in many respects and that's just the bottom line.

[NewEra]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Nothing about what I'm saying is short sighted. 

 

We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time.

 

Our head coaches philosophy doesn't work in today's NFL. That's not going to suddenly change. 

 

We're talking about a guy who punted, and consciously played for a tie against the Colts last year instead of playing to win, even though a tie would have eliminated us from playoff contention. 

 

This is a guy who time and time again will not budge from his philosophy and it's a philosophy that doesn't win in the NFL anymore. 

Cool story.  Thanks for sharing. 9999284756582829475639375759 times in every thread on the site.  Thanks again.  

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

The outside world fails to appreciate what needs to be done....national media are the worst at this. We, as fans, should embrace this total tear down on Offense, because it's what we've known needed to be done for a decade. No HC and GM have had the stones to do just that....get rid of the driftwood, take on a rebuild and do it the way they believe it needs to be done - hell or high water. I respect that. I know you don't but at the end of the day, a man needs to lead with his conviction of ideals. That's admirable no matter how you slice it. 

 

Truth is, the Bills were several years behind the times when Wrex was here in revamping the Offense. The Offenses that are record-setting are ones that have taken two or more years to build. The Bills are in year 1 of tear down. Build up is next year and depth and power are year two. Sorry. But thems the brakes...

 

Serious question - when has a total tear down ever worked in the NFL?

 

It's worked in the NBA, but tanking in the NFL doesn't have much, if any track record of success. 

[1st&ten]

45 minutes ago, wppete said:

This season has been depressing. Possible the worst I have ever seen. Anyone remember a season that has been worse recently? 

 

Well, these are not all recent, but I've seen them all-----

 

1968----1-12-1

1970---3-10-1

1984---2-14

1985---2-14

1986---4-12

2001---3-13

2010---4-12

[Wayne Arnold]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Last year the line was good and we had LeSean McCoy and McDermott still opted to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory 90% of the time.

 

What you're saying isn't in touch with what this coach has demonstrated numerous times over the past 26 games. 

 

Rober - stop making stuff up.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/aggressiveness-index-2017

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

 

you are all hepped up on any kind of playoff, not worth it

 

i want a building of an honest contender and that's what is going to happen now

 

 

We will see. I like to see progress, not a massive regression to being flat out uncompetitive. You have a lot more faith in Beane and McD’s “ process” than I do. I think they’ve dug themselves too deep a hole to climb out of in a reasonable amount of time. Perhaps the next GM/ HC combo will walk into a decent setup and build on it, rather than dismantle it. 

[CodeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I didn't say it was...it was in response to McD being fired and him needing to go and I pointed to an accomplishment no other HC has done since Wade. However you want to dissect it or make it excuses for why it should or shouldn't be...fact is he made the playoffs with an off-cast of talent in many respects and that's just the bottom line.

 

Yes, at 9-7 the stars aligned, God smiled down on them and they got the wildcard.

 

And it was fun to see the locker room reaction after the Bungles play that sealed it.

Edited November 6, 2018 by CodeMonkey

[MDH]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time.

 

Im a big believer in going for it on 4th down, even on 4th and 2 or 3 way more than the HCs in the NFL do it.

 

But your point holds zero water. Zero. This offense is historically bad. The defense is actually pretty good. Why on earth would anyone trust this offense to do anything positive? The probabilities generated by other, functioning, offenses means very little.

 

This team is probably better off punting on 3rd and long just to avoid turnovers than it is going for it in 4th and short.

[row_33]

13 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

 

Well, these are not all recent, but I've seen them all-----

 

1968----1-12-1

1970---3-10-1

1984---2-14

1985---2-14

1986---4-12

2001---3-13

2010---4-12

 

when Juice went down 1977 was the worst of my years since 1973 to watch

 

 

[cd1]

48 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I hope our franchise isn't as inept as Cleveland.

 

Don't get me wrong BUT...

 

I watched a Cleveland game recently and, although they did NOT WIN, they played like an NFL football team. 

 

I was actually envious...

 

Is that ***** sad or what?  Ha Ha Ha! 

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

Don't get me wrong BUT...

 

I watched a Cleveland game recently and, although they did NOT WIN, they played like an NFL football team. 

 

I was actually envious...

 

Is that ***** sad or what?  Ha Ha Ha! 

 

it's been quite cozy and comfortable sitting around with the Fish and Jets the whole Brady Era, none of the 3 non-Pats teams have bothered to get going on what wins in the NFL with the Pats sitting right there every freaking year....  

 

 

[BigBuff423]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Serious question - when has a total tear down ever worked in the NFL?

 

It's worked in the NBA, but tanking in the NFL doesn't have much, if any track record of success. 

 

I know I've answered this question before, maybe not to you, but I know for a fact it wasn't too long ago.....yes, it has - as you mentioned Payton, Belichick, and then look at Holmgren, Parcells, etc....the NFL history is littered with teams who bottomed out only to rebound to great heights. Bill Walsh was 2-14 in his first year and won the Super Bowl two years later, his third as HC of the 49ers. I could go on, but history would not seem to be something you're really interested in....and I'm not throwing jabs, I'm just saying I think you're frustrated - and I really honestly understand that - but that doesn't change facts and it shouldn't change the course of action for the Bills for this year and through 2019, because that's what this whole thing is about. A 4 year plan with year 3 showing real, lasting results of improvement and good football. IMHO

[Roundybout]

11 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Nothing about what I'm saying is short sighted. 

 

We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time.

 

Our head coaches philosophy doesn't work in today's NFL. That's not going to suddenly change. 

 

We're talking about a guy who punted, and consciously played for a tie against the Colts last year instead of playing to win, even though a tie would have eliminated us from playoff contention. 

 

This is a guy who time and time again will not budge from his philosophy and it's a philosophy that doesn't win in the NFL anymore. 

 

Seems like a bit of an exaggeration for a season and a half of work. 

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Rober - stop making stuff up.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/aggressiveness-index-2017

 

Your chart clearly shows we didn't go for it 90% of the time on 4th and short when between the opponents 31 and 37 yard line.