billsfan89 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: Just the other day I learned how to right-click media links. Saves a ton of time responding w/ gifs and videos Haha I right-click media links but it took me a few seconds to find the video. Just now, Koko78 said: Yeah, comments he made before he was President... As B-Man said: Weaksauce. ***** off with this blind defense of Trump, you can still like the guy or his policies and not be a blind supporters of his.Did you not say and underline NEVER in that post? You were instantly proven wrong by the mans own words from just over 2 years ago when he was running for president and your best defense was that these quotes from 2016 and thus 2016=Never? Come on just be honest you were wrong. Now if you want to say as president he never has advocated for violence you might have a case to stand on but that's not what you said. I also would say that while not advocating for direct violence Trump in calling the media the enemy of the people and going hard after any media that dares to criticize him is creating an atmosphere of hostility towards those entities. Now I won't go as far to say as that has caused these actions but I don't think that Trump has helped the current landscape of political violence imposed by both sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Yeah, unfunny comments he made before he was President... As B-Man said: Weaksauce. Yes, it's much more acceptable to be like the Democrats and have an organized thug group to carry out your assaults and death threats under a different name. https://nypost.com/2018/01/04/keith-ellison-invites-antifa-to-the-party/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Haha I right-click media links but it took me a few seconds to find the video. ***** off with this blind defense of Trump, you can still like the guy or his policies and not be a blind supporters of his.Did you not say and underline NEVER in that post? You were instantly proven wrong by the mans own words from just over 2 years ago when he was running for president and your best defense was that these quotes from 2016 and thus 2016=Never? Come on just be honest you were wrong. Now if you want to say as president he never has advocated for violence you might have a case to stand on but that's not what you said. I also would say that while not advocating for direct violence Trump in calling the media the enemy of the people and going hard after any media that dares to criticize him is creating an atmosphere of hostility towards those entities. Now I won't go as far to say as that has caused these actions but I don't think that Trump has helped the current landscape of political violence imposed by both sides. So you fail to produce one sound byte of the president inciting violence, but I'm the blind one? You completely mischaracterized the 'enemy of the people' comment, but I'm the blind one? I wonder, is your blatant mischaracterization intentional, or just parroting what was said about his comment (without actually looking at what he really said)? 7 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Yes, it's much more acceptable to be like the Democrats and have an organized thug group to carry out your assaults and death threats under a different name. https://nypost.com/2018/01/04/keith-ellison-invites-antifa-to-the-party/ Ain't no party like an Antifa party... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Or didn't go off by complete lack of design. I'm still going with "preternaturally stupid." False flag theories are the crutch of the intellectually immature. For clarity: I'm not arguing FF. A hoax (mailing fake bombs for attention or political reasons) is possible without it being a FF. ...As is preternatural stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: For clarity: I'm not arguing FF. A hoax (mailing fake bombs for attention or political reasons) is possible without it being a FF. ...As is preternatural stupidity. But what if you are arguing for a false flag? What if your post is a false flag post to distract from the false flag theory? That would make you...part of the conspiracy! WAKE UP SHEE-...ah, ***** it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, DC Tom said: But what if you are arguing for a false flag? What if your post is a false flag post to distract from the false flag theory? That would make you...part of the conspiracy! WAKE UP SHEE-...ah, ***** it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, Koko78 said: So you fail to produce one sound byte of the president inciting violence, but I'm the blind one? You completely mischaracterized the 'enemy of the people' comment, but I'm the blind one? I wonder, is your blatant mischaracterization intentional, or just parroting what was said about his comment (without actually looking at what he really said)? The guy who ran for president named Donald Trump and the president Donald Trump are the same person. These aren't obscure quotes from before he ran for office that a lot of people will trot out these are his words as a person in politics not that long ago. To act as though what you do on the campaign isn't reflective of the person in office is a bit of cognitive dissonance. I will concede from the letter of the law your point might be right (I can't recall as president him advocating for violence) but it is not irrelevant to bring up those quotes as to point to the atmosphere that he has built up for his base to rabidly defend him using violence that atmosphere carries over as 2016 is not that long ago. Also I didn't characterize the "Enemy of the People" quote in any specific context. I pointed to it as a microcosm of the atmosphere he has built around the media. The problem with the "Enemy of the People" comments and consistent vitriol attacking the media is that Trumps critique of the media is not limited to inaccurate reporting. He pretty much attacks anything that reports factual information about him that is negative. The New York Times who did an amazingly well laid out piece about how him and a lot of his family have avoided paying taxes and Trump kept attacking the New York Times as "Fake News" and out to get him. When in reality the whole story was well sourced and accurate. He didn't even provide any reason as to why it wasn't accurate. Trump has conditioned his base to attack anything that attacks him because everything that is against him is a vast conspiracy of fake news. It's not surprising to see extremists of his base doing these types of things and its not shocking to see conspiracy theories popping up making Trump the victim. Its the atmosphere of my guy good and everything bad about him must not be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, billsfan89 said: The guy who ran for president named Donald Trump and the president Donald Trump are the same person. They president who was against gay marriage and the president who was for gay marriage were the same person. Obama "evolved." Trump, though, he's static. Again, we see the a priori dualist "good vs. evil" assumption embodied in the neo-progressive Jacobin tribalist Weltanschauung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: They president who was against gay marriage and the president who was for gay marriage were the same person. Obama "evolved." Trump, though, he's static. Again, we see the a priori dualist "good vs. evil" assumption embodied in the neo-progressive Jacobin tribalist Weltanschauung. What the ***** does Obama have to do with this? A critique of Trump does not mean I endorse Obama and the Democrats. Stop with that binary thinking. Its lazy to defer criticism of Trump by saying that well the Dems suck more haha. ***** off with that. You make these assumptions that people who think Trump is a fake right wing populist who is mostly doing 80% of what a standard Republican is doing must then be sucking off the Democrats. There has been nothing from Trump in his nearly 2 years in office to think that he has been working hard to temper political violence. Trump hasn't backed off his us vs. the world mentality. He goes after the media all the time not just for inaccurate reporting but just for reporting negatively on him. Edited October 25, 2018 by billsfan89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: The guy who ran for president named Donald Trump and the president Donald Trump are the same person. These aren't obscure quotes from before he ran for office that a lot of people will trot out these are his words as a person in politics not that long ago. To act as though what you do on the campaign isn't reflective of the person in office is a bit of cognitive dissonance. I will concede from the letter of the law your point might be right (I can't recall as president him advocating for violence) but it is not irrelevant to bring up those quotes as to point to the atmosphere that he has built up for his base to rabidly defend him using violence that atmosphere carries over as 2016 is not that long ago. Also I didn't characterize the "Enemy of the People" quote in any specific context. I pointed to it as a microcosm of the atmosphere he has built around the media. The problem with the "Enemy of the People" comments and consistent vitriol attacking the media is that Trumps critique of the media is not limited to inaccurate reporting. He pretty much attacks anything that reports factual information about him that is negative. The New York Times who did an amazingly well laid out piece about how him and a lot of his family have avoided paying taxes and Trump kept attacking the New York Times as "Fake News" and out to get him. When in reality the whole story was well sourced and accurate. He didn't even provide any reason as to why it wasn't accurate. Trump has conditioned his base to attack anything that attacks him because everything that is against him is a vast conspiracy of fake news. It's not surprising to see extremists of his base doing these types of things and its not shocking to see conspiracy theories popping up making Trump the victim. Its the atmosphere of my guy good and everything bad about him must not be true. You do realize that the NYT has published false information (and only retracted it ~7 months later)? The term 'fake news' has been well earned by the Times, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, et. al. To say that the 'fake news' is the enemy of the people is pretty accurate. Unfortunately those 'fake news' purveyors have disingenuously spun it as Trump saying all journalists are the enemy. That is not what he said. He's been repeatedly misquoted, had his comments published devoid of context, and had the media intentionally omit details - all to trash him. He has every right to call out the asshats like Acosta. You're not a dumbass, stop being played for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: You do realize that the NYT has published false information (and only retracted it ~7 months later)? The term 'fake news' has been well earned by the Times, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, et. al. To say that the 'fake news' is the enemy of the people is pretty accurate. Unfortunately those 'fake news' purveyors have disingenuously spun it as Trump saying all journalists are the enemy. That is not what he said. He's been repeatedly misquoted, had his comments published devoid of context, and had the media intentionally omit details - all to trash him. He has every right to call out the asshats like Acosta. You're not a dumbass, stop being played for one. I never said there wasn't inaccurate information about Trump that many news media outlets have published. My criticism of Trump is that he cites everything that is negative about him as "Fake News" even accurate stories get lumped in as "Fake News" if it is negative. This has created with his base an us vs. them attitude where anything negative even if its accurate must be out to get him and thus not true. Trump is a pathological and shockingly lazy liar. Yes there is a general eagerness to go after Trump by a lot of the media and they will often run with stories that are intentionally misleading or sourced poorly. But there are many other examples of legitimate news stories published about Trump that were accurate and in a fair context that he labeled as "Fake News." As I said before he isn't just calling out the media for general misinformation he is slapping that label on anything that is negative. Do you feel it is an unfair point to bring up comments he made just over two years ago on his campaign to point to a history of endorsing his base to go after people who are against him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: What the ***** does Obama have to do with this? You recognize the inconstancy of one as noble, but think the other is static and constant. It has nothing to do with Trump. It has everything to do with you being a hypocrite who can't be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Do you feel it is an unfair point to bring up comments he made just over two years ago on his campaign to point to a history of endorsing his base to go after people who are against him? Unfair? No. Not what was being discussed? Yes. 7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I never said there wasn't inaccurate information about Trump that many news media outlets have published. My criticism of Trump is that he cites everything that is negative about him as "Fake News" even accurate stories get lumped in as "Fake News" if it is negative. This has created with his base an us vs. them attitude where anything negative even if its accurate must be out to get him and thus not true. To paraphrase what Harry Reid once famously said, 'well it worked, didn't it?' 7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Trump is a pathological and shockingly lazy liar. Yes there is a general eagerness to go after Trump by a lot of the media and they will often run with stories that are intentionally misleading or sourced poorly. But there are many other examples of legitimate news stories published about Trump that were accurate and in a fair context that he labeled as "Fake News." As I said before he isn't just calling out the media for general misinformation he is slapping that label on anything that is negative. No one is saying Trump is a bastion of truth. The media screws itself regularly because they go over and beyond Trump's lazy and obvious lies to invent lies he never told. That's why he's winning the war. The media has worked themselves into such a dipschiff #frenzy that they've exposed their liberal bias for all to see. They've lost the trust of the moderate viewers. There's a reason CNN can't beat Nickelodeon in ratings anymore - they still pretend that they're a news organization, and no one believes they're actually reporting the news anymore. Edited October 25, 2018 by Koko78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I never said there wasn't inaccurate information about Trump that many news media outlets have published. My criticism of Trump is that he cites everything that is negative about him as "Fake News" even accurate stories get lumped in as "Fake News" if it is negative. This has created with his base an us vs. them attitude where anything negative even if its accurate must be out to get him and thus not true. Trump is a pathological and shockingly lazy liar. Yes there is a general eagerness to go after Trump by a lot of the media and they will often run with stories that are intentionally misleading or sourced poorly. But there are many other examples of legitimate news stories published about Trump that were accurate and in a fair context that he labeled as "Fake News." As I said before he isn't just calling out the media for general misinformation he is slapping that label on anything that is negative. Do you feel it is an unfair point to bring up comments he made just over two years ago on his campaign to point to a history of endorsing his base to go after people who are against him? maybe it's just me but... i don't think i should have to question whether or not the 'news' is factual or something less than. the news hasn't been the news for a number of years now. as such, i have been trained to seek out other sources for my fact gathering. this has led me to places that i know i can find the real truth of what is going on in the world and not have it painted for me in the light propagandists would rather have me informed in. i will never trust a main stream propagandist selection again, ever. if you knew what was good for you, you wouldn't either. Edited October 25, 2018 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: You recognize the inconstancy of one as noble, but think the other is static and constant. It has nothing to do with Trump. It has everything to do with you being a hypocrite who can't be taken seriously. I never recognized the inconstancy of one as noble, where the ***** are you coming up with this? You are projecting something that I never said. Obama and Clinton were phony for holding their anti-gay position until it became politically convenient to switch. Trump is allowed to change his mind and positions but he has given me no evidence that he has. The issue is not that he can't change his mind but rather that there isn't anything to indicate that he has. 1 minute ago, Foxx said: maybe it's just me but... i don't think i should have to question whether or not the 'news' is factual or not. the news hasn't been the news for a number of years now. as such, i have been trained to seek out other sources for my fact gathering. this has led me to places that i know i can find the real truth of what is going on in the world and not have it painted for me in the light propagandists would rather have me informed in. i will never trust a main stream propagandist selection again, ever. I was actually reading about how the news has always been radically slanted to fit the needs and purpose of those who owned it. Newspapers for as far back as they have been in print have always been questionable in their reporting. The Spanish American war was started by Newspapers for example. It was only for a brief period of time after World War II until the early 1980's that journalism and reporting was thought of as a public service and good that should be held to an objective series of standards so that the public can be informed as best as possible. I try to get as much of my information from varied sources myself. But I wouldn't hold alternative media as being inherently more noble than mainstream media. Their flaws and traps are different but they still have an agenda and a message they want to deliver. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: ... I was actually reading about how the news has always been radically slanted to fit the needs and purpose of those who owned it. Newspapers for as far back as they have been in print have always been questionable in their reporting. The Spanish American war was started by Newspapers for example. It was only for a brief period of time after World War II until the early 1980's that journalism and reporting was thought of as a public service and good that should be held to an objective series of standards so that the public can be informed as best as possible. I try to get as much of my information from varied sources myself. But I wouldn't hold alternative media as being inherently more noble than mainstream media. Their flaws and traps are different but they still have an agenda and a message they want to deliver. to be fair and completely honest. there is no such thing as unbiased reporting. having a human element involved makes it impossible. that being said, you can find other sources that at least try to be as unbiased as they can be. as part of my collective stew i try to seek input from many different perspectives because even in disinformation, there is information and sometimes it is important to understand what it is that they want you to believe. would it surprise you to know that 6 corporations control roughly 90% of all media that is mainstream? think about that. might that be monopolistic? could they possibly steer the (m)@sses down whatever road they desired? Edited October 26, 2018 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Unfair? No. Not what was being discussed? Yes. To paraphrase what Harry Reid once famously said, 'well it worked, didn't it?' No one is saying Trump is a bastion of truth. The media screws itself regularly because they go over and beyond Trump's lazy and obvious lies to invent lies he never told. That's why he's winning the war. The media has worked themselves into such a dipschiff #frenzy that they've exposed their liberal bias for all to see. They've lost the trust of the moderate viewers. There's a reason CNN can't beat Nickelodeon in ratings anymore - they still pretend that they're a news organization, and no one believes they're actually reporting the news anymore. This is where we will find a lot of common ground. The media has a billion things they can go after Trump for yet they sensationalize trivial things (The only relevant part of the Stormy Daniels story was possible violations of campaign finance laws which was hardly covered) or they go after things no one cares about. The Democrats are also insanely stupid for not hammering home his horrendous policies and his fake populism. Instead they act outraged over him saying rude things. If the Democrats appealed to their own populism they would crush Trump in the mid-terms and run an actual populist candidate who could beat him. If I were advising the Democrats I would make it a consistent talking point that under Trumps first year in office 93,000 jobs were outsourced while the previous 5 years under Obama the average rate of outsourcing was 87,000. There are a ton of facts like that which should be coming out of the mouth of Democrats yet they obsess over rude comments and Russia. It is astonishing how much the Democrats suck and the media which is supposed to be in their pocket doesn't do a good job either. But while this might not be you specifically I think there are some hardcore Trump supporters that will bend over backwards to defend everything Trump says as the truth and paint anything negative as not true or part of conspiracy against him (some going even as far as to go to a deep state that is both all powerful yet incompetent.) Its one thing to think that the media will sensationalize and not source things properly to go after Trump but some Trump supporters live in a different reality where Trump is perfect and everything negative is out to get him. As a sidenote I would take issue with the "Well it worked" defense. Just because something is effective doesn't make it any less dishonest or dangerous. It also will leave his base more likely to not believe reality if reality happens to be negative towards Trump. That's my biggest fear with Trump that his base will not accept a 2020 result unless Trump wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: This is where we will find a lot of common ground. The media has a billion things they can go after Trump for yet they sensationalize trivial things (The only relevant part of the Stormy Daniels story was possible violations of campaign finance laws which was hardly covered) or they go after things no one cares about. The Democrats are also insanely stupid for not hammering home his horrendous policies and his fake populism. Instead they act outraged over him saying rude things. If the Democrats appealed to their own populism they would crush Trump in the mid-terms and run an actual populist candidate who could beat him. If I were advising the Democrats I would make it a consistent talking point that under Trumps first year in office 93,000 jobs were outsourced while the previous 5 years under Obama the average rate of outsourcing was 87,000. There are a ton of facts like that which should be coming out of the mouth of Democrats yet they obsess over rude comments and Russia. It is astonishing how much the Democrats suck and the media which is supposed to be in their pocket doesn't do a good job either. But while this might not be you specifically I think there are some hardcore Trump supporters that will bend over backwards to defend everything Trump says as the truth and paint anything negative as not true or part of conspiracy against him (some going even as far as to go to a deep state that is both all powerful yet incompetent.) Its one thing to think that the media will sensationalize and not source things properly to go after Trump but some Trump supporters live in a different reality where Trump is perfect and everything negative is out to get him. As a sidenote I would take issue with the "Well it worked" defense. Just because something is effective doesn't make it any less dishonest or dangerous. It also will leave his base more likely to not believe reality if reality happens to be negative towards Trump. That's my biggest fear with Trump that his base will not accept a 2020 result unless Trump wins. I for one still support water boarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Just now, Foxx said: to be fair and completely honest. there is no such thing as unbiased reporting. having a human element involved makes it impossible. that being said, you can find other sources that at least try to be as unbiased as they can be. as part of my collective stew i try to seek input from many different perspectives because even in disinformation, there is information and sometimes it is important to understand what it is that they want you to believe. would it surprise you to know that 6 corporations control roughly 90% of all media that is mainstream? think about that. might that be monopolistic? could they possibly steer the (m)***** down whatever road they desired? I knew that stat about 90% of media was owned by 6 corps. A lot of deregulation in the 1990's led to an increase in the concentration of media (Which was already pretty concentrated by the top 6 companies but not to the degree it is now.) My issue with alternative media is that some people (not you just people who tout alt media blindly) don't understand that alt media has its own trappings and failings. I think people also don't realize that Alt Media doesn't do a whole lot of actual reporting. Most alt media just reports on stories reported on by the journalists from ABC, Reuters, Fox, CNN etc. Most alt media doesn't have reporters in the field doing the hard work to break stories. That's not to say that I don't like there being alternative outlets for media. I really like that there are other voices in the debate but I just apply the same level of skepticism as I would to CNN or Fox. I think a blind faith in alt media being inherently better than mainstream media leads to Alex Jones being able to sell supplements at an insane markup and advertise gold at insane markups (And I am not implying you are a big Alex Jones guy but rather that you can't have any less skepticism about alt media.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleshifter Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 On 10/24/2018 at 12:24 PM, Boyst62 said: No one is getting killed by a pipe with a wire to both ends and a plan so poorly executed that it backfired. This is the dumbest thing in the history of dumb things. Welcome to October in the year 2018. The clocks in these "bombs" had no alarm mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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