Bills vs. Ravens: 2nd Half Game Day Thread - Josh Allen In!

[Peter]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Wow, this is an embarrassing post. It was all drops? Seriously? What about the over throws? Or were those drops too?

 

Show me those QBs then.

 

I was quoting the other guy's phrase.

 

The fact is that we will never know how good any QB who was picked high and played behind a crappy line would have reached whatever potential he would have had.  

 

Dak Prescott is a good example of what a young guy can do behind a good line.  I am sure he would not have had the rookie season he did if he played behind the Bills' line this year.

1 minute ago, BB@Shooter said:

Do you know anything about what Luck and Peyton Manning went through in Indy? I think they are doing fine. Allen is used to the beating. He will be fine.

 

Yes, anyone who follows football does.

 

Please also do not suggest that Josh Allen is Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning.

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Allen had nearly an entire half, mostly against backups, and didn't do any better. How does he get such blind confidence from folks that he's going to be any sort of improvement?

 

He needs to sit and practice if he's going to have any hope of living up to the ridiculous expectations that people have for him. He's going to become the next David Carr if he starts this year.

 

Allen had less than a half and multiple first downs how many did Peterman have?

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with that but what is the alternative? Peterman isn't a genuine alternative. That is obvious. 

 

The alternative was AJ . . . and we outsmarted ourselves by trading him . . . .

[Jay_Fixit]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Petermans whole half was nothing but drops. They had the same starters playing the same garbage game against Ravens 1rst, 2nd and 3rd team.

You might have the worst posts I’ve ever seen.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[Wayne Cubed]

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I was quoting the other guy's phrase.

 

The fact is that we will never know how good any QB who was picked high and played behind a crappy line would have reached whatever potential he would have had.  

 

Dak Prescott is a good example of what a young guy can do behind a good line.  I am sure he would not have had the rookie season he did if he played behind the Bills' line this year.

 

And Russell Wilson is a good example of a guy who play behind a crap OL and is continually good. Andrew Luck plays behind crap OLs. 

 

Look if you solution is to constantly have 5 All-pro OL to protect your QB, it's just not possible. Many, many good/great Qbs get by with average to just good OLs. Is the Bills line even average? No, not at the moment but they are giving the QB enough time to throw and to evaluate. There are other problems at the moment like the WRs and the fact that Allen thinks he can run through the tackles and sacks like he did in college. He can't. That doesn't mean you are going to destroy his confidence. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Wayne Cubed

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Peter said:

 

The alternative was AJ . . . and we outsmarted ourselves by trading him . . . .

 

I am not sure he was the answer either. I think he sucks too and I went back and watched every NFL throw he made in Cincy after we signed him. I don't think he is as bad as Peterman but he is not good. I think they have royally screwed up the QB position this offseason and the offensive line. Not sure I see a way of rescuing the season but regardless of all that they simply cannot start Nate Peterman next week. If they do their seats are gonna get suddenly very, very warm. 

[Peter]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

And Russell Wilson is a good example of a guy who play behind a crap OL and is continually good. Andrew Luck plays behind crap OLs. 

 

Look if you solution is to constantly have 5 All-pro OL to protect your QB, it's just not possible. Many, many good/great Qbs get by with average to just good OLs. Is the Bills line even average? No, not at the moment but they are giving the QB enough time to throw and to evaluate. There are other problems at the moment like the WRs and the fact that Allen thinks he can run through the tackles and sacks like he did in college. He can't. 

 

I thought Russell Wilson's line was pretty good.

 

Our line and team are historically bad right now.  You are probably going to get your wish.  I hope you are right.  I have my doubts and given the huge investment we have in Josh and the fact that he is very, very, very raw, I would be careful with him.  

 

We shall see what happens to the kid when he gets thrown to the wolves.  It may even happen next week.  He was not particularly successful in college against lesser competition.  I am not sure what we can expect of the kid behind a crappy line against the likes of the Chargers, Vikings etc.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Peter

[NewEraBills]

18 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Allen, Murphy, the punter, and the fact that if the Ravens can totally rebuild their WR corp in one offseason, so can the Bills

 

No big injuries

 

Ravens also made a big use of their TE. Where were Clay and the other guys?

 

 

 

Open quite a bit but Peterman just wouldn't pass it to them.

[Peter]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not sure he was the answer either. I think he sucks too and I went back and watched every NFL throw he made in Cincy after we signed him. I don't think he is as bad as Peterman but he is not good. I think they have royally screwed up the QB position this offseason and the offensive line. Not sure I see a way of rescuing the season but regardless of all that they simply cannot start Nate Peterman next week. If they do their seats are gonna get suddenly very, very warm. 

 

This is going to be a very long and depressing year.

 

I have little confidence in McBeane.

 

I am much more excited about Unai Emery (even though I was AKB).

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Peter said:

 

I thought Russell Wilson's line was pretty good.

 

Our line and team are historically bad right now.  You are probably are going to get your wish.  I hope you are right.  I have my doubts and given the huge investment we have in Josh and the fact that he is very, very, very raw, I would be careful with him.  

 

We shall see what happens to the kid when he gets thrown to the wolves.  It may even happen next week.  He was not particularly successful in college against lesser competition.  I am not sure what we can expect of the kid behind a crappy line against the likes of the Chargers, Vikings etc.

 

When Wilson first came in his line was good you are right. It was good and the highest paid starting line in the league. The last 3 years it has sucked and for a part of that time has been the lowest paid line. 

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I thought Russell Wilson's line was pretty good.

 

Our line and team are historically bad right now.  You are probably are going to get your wish.  I hope you are right.  I have my doubts and given the huge investment we have in Josh and the fact that he is very, very, very raw, I would be careful with him.  

 

We shall see what happens to the kid when he gets thrown to the wolves.  It may even happen next week.  He was not particularly successful in college against lesser competition.  I am not sure what we can expect of the kid behind a crappy line against the likes of the Chargers, Vikings etc.

 

It was to begin with, it's been bad, to very bad the past few years. And yet he still produces. What about Luck?

 

How do you know he's very, very, very raw? You haven't seen him play? This is regurgitating what is the believed perception. A very, very, very raw QB doesn't go an make some of the throws Allen has mad. 

 

And yea he played behind a crappy team in Wyoming. Was his confidence knocked? Nope. He still went out and got drafted in the 1st round. The sacks don't seem to bother him. He's going to get sacked. It's going to happen.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

This is going to be a very long and depressing year.

 

I have little confidence in McBeane.

 

I am much more excited about Unai Emery (even though I was AKB).

 

True although Emery's seeming blindspot on the hapless Xhaka is pretty close to McDermott's on PeterPick. 

[Peter]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

It was to begin with, it's been bad, to very bad the past few years. And yet he still produces. What about Luck?

 

How do you know he's very, very, very raw? You haven't seen him play? This is regurgitating what is the believed perception. A very, very, very raw QB doesn't go an make some of the throws Allen has mad. 

 

And yea he played behind a crappy team in Wyoming. Was his confidence knocked? Nope. He still went out and got drafted in the 1st round. The sacks don't seem to bother him. He's going to get sacked. It's going to happen.

 

You proved my point.  Russell Wilson had the opportunity to develop his skills behind a very good offensive line.  He also was a more productive QB in college.

 

You do not think Josh Allen is raw?!?  Really?

 

Josh Allen is very raw and I know that because I have watched him play.  He has potential and could be special . . . but he was not particularly outstanding agains much lesser competition.

 

[Franco_92]

18 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

And Russell Wilson is a good example of a guy who play behind a crap OL and is continually good. Andrew Luck plays behind crap OLs. 

 

Look if you solution is to constantly have 5 All-pro OL to protect your QB, it's just not possible. Many, many good/great Qbs get by with average to just good OLs. Is the Bills line even average? No, not at the moment but they are giving the QB enough time to throw and to evaluate. There are other problems at the moment like the WRs and the fact that Allen thinks he can run through the tackles and sacks like he did in college. He can't. That doesn't mean you are going to destroy his confidence. 

This is the truth. Our OL did not get a passing grade today, but when Peterman had time to set his feet and throw, we saw the worst parts of the game. There was enough to go on from Peterman himself, while excusing drops and OL play as not his fault, to come to the conclusion that he shouldn't be anywhere near this roster tomorrow.

 

By worst I don't mean literal worst, but worst in a sense of "yeah..there's no way we can get back in this game or season if that is what we get from our QB"

Edited September 9, 2018 by arcane

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

True although Emery's seeming blindspot on the hapless Xhaka is pretty close to McDermott's on PeterPick. 

 

I like Xhaka 90% of the time . . . but he has some brain farts the rest of the time that are so unnecessary.  That pass last week is a great example of that.

 

I like the fact that Emery is not letting our diva be a diva.  Everyone should be held to the same standard and be expected to put in a shift in and out of possession and even when playing out of one's preferred position.

1 minute ago, arcane said:

This is the truth. Our OL did not get a passing grade today, but when Peterman had time to set his feet and throw, we saw the worst parts of the game. There was enough to go on from Peterman himself, while excusing drops and OL play as not his fault, to come to the conclusion that he shouldn't be anywhere near this roster tomorrow.

 

My concern is not in developing Peterman . . . but in developing the kid in whom we have invested so much.

[Franco_92]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I like Xhaka 90% of the time . . . but he has some brain farts the rest of the time that are so unnecessary.  That pass last week is a great example of that.

 

I like the fact that Emery is not letting our diva be a diva.  Everyone should be held to the same standard and be expected to put in a shift in and out of possession and even when playing out of one's preferred position.

 

My concern is not in developing Peterman . . . but in developing the kid in whom we have invested so much.

Same - I would try to sign/trade for another body. I didn't want Allen touching the field at all this season, ugh.

[Wayne Cubed]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

You proved my point.  Russell Wilson had the opportunity to develop his skills behind a very good offensive line.  He also was a more productive QB in college.

 

You do not think Josh Allen is raw?!?  Really?

 

Josh Allen is very raw and I know that because I have watched him play.  He has potential and could be special . . . but he was not particularly outstanding agains much lesser competition.

 

 

I didn't prove your point at all. Dak Prescott played behind a good OL and now doesn't have one, and he isn't the same player. So the Cowboys were sold fools gold. And you are still ignoring Luck.

 

You said he was very, very, very raw. I don't agree with that, no. Is he a bit raw in certain aspects, yea. Does he need to learn some things? Yea. Can he still do that? It's certainly possible.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I like Xhaka 90% of the time . . . but he has some brain farts the rest of the time that are so unnecessary.  That pass last week is a great example of that.

 

Since the start of last season is responsible for 12 individual errors leading to goals. The highest number in the League. He sucks. He is the Nathan Peterman of Arsenal. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You've gotta be more specific, just saying personnel moves doesn't give you a pass despite how many time you've heard it on talk radio.

 

The personnel moves have been a !@#$ing disaster. Show where they are good

Bringing in McDermott. Drafting Allen. Kelvin Benjamin.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Bringing in McDermott. Drafting Allen. Kelvin Benjamin.

 

I'm just going to stop. We're bills fans, but I can't follow what you are saying now. Are you crediting beane for bringing in McDermott, or McDermott for bringing in McDermott? Benjamin? I want nothing to do with him, can we trade him for Sammy?

[Bing Bong]

2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You've gotta be more specific, just saying personnel moves doesn't give you a pass despite how many time you've heard it on talk radio.

 

The personnel moves have been a !@#$ing disaster. Show where they are good

I'd start with the personnel moves. That's a perfect start to evaluating Beane.. cause our personnell moves have sucked!

2 hours ago, Tcali said:

what disaster?? other than not replacing wood and incognito?? other than not replacing Watkins and woods? other than paying big money for a mediocre over the hil tackle named lotluleli? other than keeping Peterson on the roster with no credible veteran to mentor josh allen?--other than these minor things there is no disaster here.

Hahahaha almost was about to blast you but that was so hilarious, great sarcasm

Edited September 9, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[BB@Shooter]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

I was quoting the other guy's phrase.

 

The fact is that we will never know how good any QB who was picked high and played behind a crappy line would have reached whatever potential he would have had.  

 

Dak Prescott is a good example of what a young guy can do behind a good line.  I am sure he would not have had the rookie season he did if he played behind the Bills' line this year.

 

Yes, anyone who follows football does.

 

Please also do not suggest that Josh Allen is Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning.

I see, so a guy that could have been drafted 1 through 7 in a strong draft class that hasn't been seen since Marino and company gets automatically dismissed by you and what little knowledge  you have that  Allen could have that potential?  After one half of football where receivers kept dropping his passes behind one of the worst lines I have seen since Tampa Bay came into the league? Do you not watch TV , get on the Internet or read?  I guess it is useless to argue with an uninformed poster. And where did I suggest he was either of them. I suggested they got the hell beat out of them their first year and it didn't ruin them. And you know dang well what I meant unless you are that clueless. Which I think the latter is more possible. Get used to Allen , he isn't going anywhere.  And now I get the satisfaction of knowing it is going to eat you up. See ya in the funny papers.

Edited September 9, 2018 by BB@Shooter

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not sure he was the answer either. I think he sucks too and I went back and watched every NFL throw he made in Cincy after we signed him. I don't think he is as bad as Peterman but he is not good. I think they have royally screwed up the QB position this offseason and the offensive line. Not sure I see a way of rescuing the season but regardless of all that they simply cannot start Nate Peterman next week. If they do their seats are gonna get suddenly very, very warm. 

 

You've never responded when I've asked. I enjoy it and understand both sides of it, but do you watch arsenal fan tv? I'm not a gunner but love it, I could only imagine dt or whoever if they were a bills fan today

[BB@Shooter]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

You proved my point.  Russell Wilson had the opportunity to develop his skills behind a very good offensive line.  He also was a more productive QB in college.

 

You do not think Josh Allen is raw?!?  Really?

 

Josh Allen is very raw and I know that because I have watched him play.  He has potential and could be special . . . but he was not particularly outstanding agains much lesser competition.

 

You have seen Josh Allen play? I have seen him play 23 times in person. Get outta here poser.

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

I thought Russell Wilson's line was pretty good.

 

Our line and team are historically bad right now.  You are probably going to get your wish.  I hope you are right.  I have my doubts and given the huge investment we have in Josh and the fact that he is very, very, very raw, I would be careful with him.  

 

We shall see what happens to the kid when he gets thrown to the wolves.  It may even happen next week.  He was not particularly successful in college against lesser competition.  I am not sure what we can expect of the kid behind a crappy line against the likes of the Chargers, Vikings etc.

Playing with a lesser conference means less talent to go up against P5 schools.  P5 schools have more talent and are deeper genius.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You've never responded when I've asked. I enjoy it and understand both sides of it, but do you watch arsenal fan tv? I'm not a gunner but love it, I could only imagine dt or whoever if they were a bills fan today

 

I try not to. Every now and again it is good for a laugh. 

[BB@Shooter]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

The alternative was AJ . . . and we outsmarted ourselves by trading him . . . .

Ughhh, sure.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I try not to. Every now and again it is good for a laugh. 

 

It's great for a laugh, troopz was the other guy I was drawing a blank on. I do love their passion, Robbie seems like a decent guy. 

 

I'm an evertonian and a bills fan so I have that weird complex where I enjoy others suffering when it comes to sports

[Peter]

30 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

You have seen Josh Allen play? I have seen him play 23 times in person. Get outta here poser.

Playing with a lesser conference means less talent to go up against P5 schools.  P5 schools have more talent and are deeper genius.

If you saw him play 23 times and don’t think he is raw you must have been looking at something else. 

 

God bless. 

48 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

I see, so a guy that could have been drafted 1 through 7 in a strong draft class that hasn't been seen since Marino and company gets automatically dismissed by you and what little knowledge  you have that  Allen could have that potential?  After one half of football where receivers kept dropping his passes behind one of the worst lines I have seen since Tampa Bay came into the league? Do you not watch TV , get on the Internet or read?  I guess it is useless to argue with an uninformed poster. And where did I suggest he was either of them. I suggested they got the hell beat out of them their first year and it didn't ruin them. And you know dang well what I meant unless you are that clueless. Which I think the latter is more possible. Get used to Allen , he isn't going anywhere.  And now I get the satisfaction of knowing it is going to eat you up. See ya in the funny papers.

 

You clearly have been reading my posts about as closely as you have watched Josh Allen. Not that closely. 

 

I am NOT dismissing him at all. I just think he is raw and has potential but don’t want to see that potential ruined or stunted behind our line. I am taking the long view of him and his development. 

 

I am am not going to respond to your personal attacks with personal attacks (as much as I am tempted to do so). 

[Matt_In_NH]

3 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Your eyes need to be new eyes

 

3 for 9 was a fact not something subjective.  Your brain need to be a new brain

[Keukasmallies]

  5 hours ago,  HappyDays said: 

 

He has a plan but we won't know if he can execute it until next year. I know this sucks right now. The Sabres sucked for a couple years and now they have a very promising young corps. That's what you have to do sometimes. We've had so many years of 7-9 and 6-10.This is ultimately going to be better in the long run.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

As Adam Smith said, in the long run we'll all be dead.

 

[Mat68]

He needs to take his lumps and get used to the NFL game.  Peterman is not and should not be a starter or contributor to an NFL offense.  Allen is going to have poor performances but also have great plays.  A few tweaks and the defense will be pretty formidable.  The offense is a concern for me.  Get a power run game going.  Pull with Miller and Groy.  Allow the offensive line to move forward.  Use a fullback and put Allen under center.  Ugly it up offensively and get some chunks plays of PA.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Mat68

[Kemp]

Peterman had the least amount of time to throw in the NFL, yesterday. I believe the running game had the least amount of time before contact. 

 

Peterman is certainly not the answer, but I totally doubt Allen is, either. Allen played against 2nd and 3rd stringers and didn't exactly light it up. Might as well start him from now on, though. Yeah, he might get better, but I thought he was a horrible pick and my opinion can only change by seeing him perform well at an NFL level. I know a lot of you are hopeful about Allen, even if you didn't like the pick, originally, but so far I haven't seen anything from him other than the rifle arm we already knew about.

 

At the next draft, Buffalo will be forced to either take another QB or trade down and grab 3 offensive linemen. The problem is they could also use 4 new defensive linemen, not to mention a couple of linebackers.

Buffalo is the new Cleveland.

 

I still believe McD is a good coach, but he will no doubt be sacrificed within a year unless the situation changes drastically.

12 hours ago, Mat68 said:

....  A few tweaks and the defense will be pretty formidable.  

 

Tweaks!?

 

That was a very mediocre Baltimore offense that trampled Buffalo.

 

The defensive line is absolutely awful. Only Kyle Williams is better than average. Is anyone else even average? 

[Mat68]

4 hours ago, Kemp said:

Peterman had the least amount of time to throw in the NFL, yesterday. I believe the running game had the least amount of time before contact. 

 

Peterman is certainly not the answer, but I totally doubt Allen is, either. Allen played against 2nd and 3rd stringers and didn't exactly light it up. Might as well start him from now on, though. Yeah, he might get better, but I thought he was a horrible pick and my opinion can only change by seeing him perform well at an NFL level. I know a lot of you are hopeful about Allen, even if you didn't like the pick, originally, but so far I haven't seen anything from him other than the rifle arm we already knew about.

 

At the next draft, Buffalo will be forced to either take another QB or trade down and grab 3 offensive linemen. The problem is they could also use 4 new defensive linemen, not to mention a couple of linebackers.

Buffalo is the new Cleveland.

 

I still believe McD is a good coach, but he will no doubt be sacrificed within a year unless the situation changes drastically.

 

Tweaks!?

 

That was a very mediocre Baltimore offense that trampled Buffalo.

 

The defensive line is absolutely awful. Only Kyle Williams is better than average. Is anyone else even average? 

Most teams can hold up when your offense can not get a first down.  Very similar result to what happened vs NO last year. For me the defense was not a sive yesterday.  2 bad drives but the stats and score board isn't a complete reflection of their performance.