What will Daboll's offense look like?

[Sky Diver]

13 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I mean...who's not a fan of the "muff"....albeit, if they're going to put *that* on the field, I suggest making sure they're not built like football dudes....just a suggestion and I'm sure there are those who would be in favor, I am not one....

 

I get it man....I'm optimistic as well. I think there are good reasons to be...but, to be fair the bedrock point is that we just don't know yet....I'm hoping he will be another true find for the Bills and a revelation of what hard work, dedication to professional development, and the right team culture can do for an up-and-coming Coordinator, but we just don't know for certain yet...for me, I''l give him a mulligan this year regardless and all the way into mid-year next year when I presume no matter what Josh Allen will be the starting QB (if not sooner of course) to see whether he's done the aforementioned improvement or whether McD and Beane need to look yet again....

 

Agreed. They were under the gun last year to find an offensive coordinator and their first choice didn't pan out. i think Daboll was was a well reasoned hire.

 

No one knows how it will work out, but why not hope for the best? He's respected enough that a lot of good head coaches have hired him.

[TigerJ]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

The thing is, McDaniels hasn't actually demonstrated that he HAS learned from his mistakes.  He was a brilliant OC when he left for the Broncos and failed as a HC.  He's still the OC for the Pats until Belichick hangs 'em up.

True, but there aren't very many ways that someone can prove he has learned from his mistakes until someone trusts him enough to give him another shot.  I'm sure that the Bills interviewed Daboll in depth about his past experience as an OC, in part to learn if he's corrected his shortcomings.  Presumably, he gave enough good answers to convince McDermott he ought to have that chance, but nobody can be certain.  We'll see what happens.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

2016

Team Stats

		Passing					Rushing				Total Offense			First Downs				Penalties		Turnovers
Split	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	Pass	Rush	Pen	Tot	No.	Yds	Fum	Int	Tot
Offense	15	17.7	27.8	63.5	210.3	1.7	42.6	245.0	5.8	2.2	70.4	455.3	6.5	8.1	12.1	0.8	21.0	5.7	44.0	0.7	0.6	1.3
Defense	15	18.2	33.8	53.8	197.9	1.0	31.7	63.9	2.0	0.3	65.5	261.8	4.0	8.3	4.7	1.4	14.5	3.9	31.4	0.9	1.1	1.9
Difference		-0.5	-6.0	+9.7	+12.4	+0.7	+10.9	+181.1	+3.8	+1.9	+4.9	+193.5	+2.5	-0.2	+7.4	-0.6	+6.5	+1.8	+12.6	-0.2	-0.5	-0.6

 

2017

Team Stats

		Passing					Rushing				Total Offense			First Downs				Penalties		Turnovers
Split	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	Pass	Rush	Pen	Tot	No.	Yds	Fum	Int	Tot
Offense	14	14.6	23.8	61.3	193.4	2.0	43.7	250.6	5.7	2.6	67.5	444.1	6.6	8.6	12.4	1.4	22.2	4.9	40.6	0.5	0.2	0.7
Defense	14	16.4	30.4	53.8	165.7	0.6	34.7	95.7	2.8	0.6	65.1	261.4	4.0	8.1	5.4	1.8	15.4	4.4	32.5	0.4	1.4	1.7
Difference		-1.8	-6.6	+7.5	+27.7	+1.4	+9.0	+154.9	+2.9	+2.0	+2.4	+182.7	+2.6	+0.5	+7.0	-0.4	+6.8	+0.5	+8.1	+0.1	-1.2	-1.0

 

Alabama team stats for 2016 vs 2017. Most values are per game averages. Rosters in college football turnover so much year to year, who knows what to make of this. At first glance, from the stats alone, the differences don't look statistically significant to me. Arguably the passing game wasn't as good.

 

 

Thanks for info, Diver. 

 

For two things where I think the coaching can have a strong impact, there appear to be improvements in offensive penalties and turn-overs.  Unsure how significant since these weren't problem areas for 'bama in 2016, but improvement is always good. 

 

[Sky Diver]

Yes, I noticed that penalties went down. Hopefully that was the result of Daboll's coaching and not a change in players.  I honestly don't recall what changed there were to the offensive line for 2016 vs 2017.

 

I suspect he may have been more of a disciplinarian that Kiffin.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

Curious why Chan Gailey was out of football for 2 years after the Bills fired him.

 

Was out of football for 2 years before the Bills hired him too, as I recall.

 

I think the Chan Gailey hire was one of my lowest points as a Bills fan:  "Chan WHO?"

 

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Was out of football for 2 years before the Bills hired him too, as I recall.

 

I think the Chan Gailey hire was one of my lowest points as a Bills fan:  "Chan WHO?"

 

 

The Jets offense was pretty good the two years he was there. I hope he is enjoying retirement. He seems like a great guy.

[Happy]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Was out of football for 2 years before the Bills hired him too, as I recall.

 

I think the Chan Gailey hire was one of my lowest points as a Bills fan:  "Chan WHO?"

 

 

Didn't Bill Cowher recommend Chan Gailey after he (Cowher) turned the Bills down for the HC position?  At that point, Cowher was out of coaching for a good 4-5 years.

[Sky Diver]

I checked the OL for Alabama between 2016 and 2017. I am assuming that's where most of the penalties came from. Cam Robinson went to the NFL, but otherwise there was mostly reshuffling. Maybe we can credit Daboll for the reduction in penalties. You can always hope. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

The Jets offense was pretty good the two years he was there. I hope he is enjoying retirement. He seems like a great guy.

 

Agree Gailey just seems like a good guy.

 

The Jets offense was like "Buffalo Bills East" with Gailey there.  They showed surprising competence and improvement one year, and fell apart the next year - whether from loss of personnel they needed to succeed and Gailey's inability to adjust, or via predictability and being "solved" - can't tell you.

 

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Didn't Bill Cowher recommend Chan Gailey after he (Cowher) turned the Bills down for the HC position?  At that point, Cowher was out of coaching for a good 4-5 years.

 

Yeah, I think he did - but to me that was kind of like saying "sorry, I won't sell you this BMW X5 that you want, but I recommend you purchase this used Ford Explorer, it might be able to do what you need if you give it a chance (never mind the rust)".

 

[Sky Diver]

Good article about Daboll. He was right on Tua.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2018/01/18/report-why-new-bills-offensive-coordinator-brian-daboll-left-alabama/

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Agree Gailey just seems like a good guy.

 

The Jets offense was like "Buffalo Bills East" with Gailey there.  They showed surprising competence and improvement one year, and fell apart the next year - whether from loss of personnel they needed to succeed and Gailey's inability to adjust, or via predictability and being "solved" - can't tell you.

 

 

That's true. I don't know what happened his second year. As you say,maybe it was personnel or he got figured out, or a combination.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Good article about Daboll. He was right on Tua.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2018/01/18/report-why-new-bills-offensive-coordinator-brian-daboll-left-alabama/

 

Just after the hire, someone posted a clip of Daboll working with two QB in practice, and it was quite clear just in that short clip one guy was far more talented than the other.

When I looked up the numbers, QB "Oh yeah, he can throw" was Tua

[Sky Diver]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just after the hire, someone posted a clip of Daboll working with two QB in practice, and it was quite clear just in that short clip one guy was far more talented than the other.

When I looked up the numbers, QB "Oh yeah, he can throw" was Tua

 

Tua is amazing. His brother committed to Alabama as a QB and he looks like a stud too.

 

Hurts is a great kid as is Tua. I suspect that Saban stuck with Hurts because he didn't want to disrupt the locker room. Tua is clearly a more talented passer.

 

This play was amazing.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Richard Noggin]

9 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Tua is amazing. His brother committed to Alabama as a QB and he looks like a stud too.

 

Hurts is a great kid as is Tua. I suspect that Saban stuck with Hurts because he didn't want to disrupt the locker room. Tua is clearly a more talented passer.

 

This play was amazing.

 

 

"Looked like Steve Young there for a second." 

 

That's actually reasonable color commentary on that play. Lefty with moxy and mobility and a quick delivery. Throws an absolute dart with no set base and heat bearing down on him from at least three rushers (two of which he'd eluded once to buy time). 

[K-9]

18 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Tua is amazing. His brother committed to Alabama as a QB and he looks like a stud too.

 

Hurts is a great kid as is Tua. I suspect that Saban stuck with Hurts because he didn't want to disrupt the locker room. Tua is clearly a more talented passer.

 

This play was amazing.

 

 

Wow. You can't teach that. You can instruct and advise QBs to do that, but you can't teach that kind of poise. That is rare in experienced NFL QBs and to see it in a college freshman is remarkable. 

 

Who's got the inside track on the starting job down there? Lot to like about Hurts, but he might be a hard sell to the rest of the team at this point. Especially in light of Tua's second half performance in the championship game. 

[dave mcbride]

19 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Tua is amazing. His brother committed to Alabama as a QB and he looks like a stud too.

 

Hurts is a great kid as is Tua. I suspect that Saban stuck with Hurts because he didn't want to disrupt the locker room. Tua is clearly a more talented passer.

 

This play was amazing.

 

 

I think he's good, but this play is not "amazing" outside of the scramble (which was admittedly good but happens all of the time). The throw was to a *wide* open receiver in an elite program who is probably ten times better than the chump from a perennial SEC doormat (6-26 in the last four seasons in conference play) who is covering him in a 45-0 game. 

[Sky Diver]

40 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think he's good, but this play is not "amazing" outside of the scramble (which was admittedly good but happens all of the time). The throw was to a *wide* open receiver in an elite program who is probably ten times better than the chump from a perennial SEC doormat (6-26 in the last four seasons in conference play) who is covering him in a 45-0 game. 

 

Good enough to draw a comparison to Steve Young. He was a pretty fair QB.

 

I watched the guy play all year, including the A Day game. He can sling it.

 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Good enough to draw a comparison to Steve Young. He was a pretty fair QB.

 

I watched the guy play all year, including the A Day game. He can sling it.

 

That comparison means nothing to me. I like the player a lot, but it was a 45-0 game against a doormat with substandard defensive talent.  Do it against a competent team in a competitive situation and I'll give him his praise.

[Sky Diver]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

That comparison means nothing to me. I like the player a lot, but it was a 45-0 game against a doormat with substandard defensive talent.  Do it against a competent team in a competitive situation and I'll give him his praise.

 

I would posit that the University of Georgia was a competent team and the National Championship was a competitive situation.

 

The kid is only a freshman too.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Sky Diver

[donbb]

Daboll should tailor his offense each week to exploit our opponents deficiencies on defense, unfortunately I don't think the Bills have the personnel to do so. I hope fans have patience with Daboll to see him through the 2019 season.

[Sky Diver]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Wow. You can't teach that. You can instruct and advise QBs to do that, but you can't teach that kind of poise. That is rare in experienced NFL QBs and to see it in a college freshman is remarkable. 

 

Who's got the inside track on the starting job down there? Lot to like about Hurts, but he might be a hard sell to the rest of the team at this point. Especially in light of Tua's second half performance in the championship game. 

 

Hurts is a great kid and a tremendous athlete. I think he would be best served by changing positions if he wants to make it to the NFL.

 

Saban is being coy, but I can't see how he starts over Tua.

21 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thanks for info, Diver. 

 

For two things where I think the coaching can have a strong impact, there appear to be improvements in offensive penalties and turn-overs.  Unsure how significant since these weren't problem areas for 'bama in 2016, but improvement is always good. 

 

 

Daboll followed Lane Kiffin, who was a really good offensive coordinator in his own right and there was no drop off.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, donbb said:

Daboll should tailor his offense each week to exploit our opponents deficiencies on defense, unfortunately I don't think the Bills have the personnel to do so. I hope fans have patience with Daboll to see him through the 2019 season.

 

That's the "party line" out of OBD but here's the thing.

 

A huge part of successful football is playing fast.  Pattern, BAM.  Pattern, BAM.  Pattern, BAM.   You've mastered the play so well that you don't have to think about what you need to do when you recognize it's Man, or Cover2, or Palms - you just react.

 

That's easy to achieve when you have a limited number of plays that are set up to look different and create mismatches by faking the opponent out.  It's harder to achieve when you have a large number of plays and they change every week.

 

It's a common theme, when a team improves dramatically with almost the same personnel and a different coach, to hear "Coach Wade came in and really simplified our defense" or "Coach Lynn just pared it down"  Rumor had it Roman was putting 100 plays into the game plan every week for the players to learn, then practicing about 30 and actually executing in the game maybe 15-20. 

 

It's hard to play fast in that scenario.

 

I'm all for tailoring the offense to the opponent, but it has to be done carefully and within reason to avoid overwhelming a young team/inexperienced QBs

[dave mcbride]

30 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

I would posit that the University of Georgia was a competent team and the National Championship was a competitive situation.

 

The kid is only a freshman too.

You're sorta straw-manning me (a tendency of yours, I believe). I was talking about one play and one play only, and I wasn't talking about the Georgia game at all. I also said I liked the player a lot.

[Sky Diver]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You're sorta straw-manning me (a tendency of yours, I believe). I was talking about one play and one play only, and I wasn't talking about the Georgia game at all. I also said I liked the player a lot.

 

Maybe I misinterpreted what you said in the quote below. Do you mean that you would like to see him make the exact same play that he made against Vanderbilt against a higher quality opponent? If so, I doubt that play is highly repeatable. Maybe you can clarify.

 

"That comparison means nothing to me. I like the player a lot, but it was a 45-0 game against a doormat with substandard defensive talent.  Do it against a competent team in a competitive situation and I'll give him his praise."

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's the "party line" out of OBD but here's the thing.

 

A huge part of successful football is playing fast.  Pattern, BAM.  Pattern, BAM.  Pattern, BAM.   You've mastered the play so well that you don't have to think about what you need to do when you recognize it's Man, or Cover2, or Palms - you just react.

 

That's easy to achieve when you have a limited number of plays that are set up to look different and create mismatches by faking the opponent out.  It's harder to achieve when you have a large number of plays and they change every week.

 

It's a common theme, when a team improves dramatically with almost the same personnel and a different coach, to hear "Coach Wade came in and really simplified our defense" or "Coach Lynn just pared it down"  Rumor had it Roman was putting 100 plays into the game plan every week for the players to learn, then practicing about 30 and actually executing in the game maybe 15-20. 

 

It's hard to play fast in that scenario.

 

I'm all for tailoring the offense to the opponent, but it has to be done carefully and within reason to avoid overwhelming a young team/inexperienced QBs

 

It seemed like Daboll was getting plays in faster than Kiffin, but my memory could be bad.

 

Another Kiffin vs Daboll comparison below. Hurts didn't blossom under Daboll like some had hoped. I would have liked to have seen more of what he could have accomplished with Tua.

 

http://gridironnow.com/bama-offense-productive-brian-daboll-lane-kiffin/

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Maybe I misinterpreted what you said in the quote below. Do you mean that you would like to see him make the exact same play that he made against Vanderbilt against a higher quality opponent? If so, I doubt that play is highly repeatable. Maybe you can clarify.

 

First off, I think the scramble was nice, *and I like the player*. More importantly, though, the throw just wasn't that difficult. It was an easy loft, the game was out of hand, and the WR was WIDE OPEN. All I'm saying is that I don't think that play was all that impressive. He was accurate and did make the play, but as an elite prospect, he *should* make that play. All decent qbs should be able to make that throw. But even an inferior player like Jalen Hurts can make that play 7 times out 10 (assuming he scrambles successfully) too given how wide open the player was. 

 

As to your point above, I'd like to see him make that throw against a team with a better secondary defender who hadn't been left in the dust on a play at the tail end of a blowout. 

[Sky Diver]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

First off, I think the scramble was nice, *and I like the player*. More importantly, though, the throw just wasn't that difficult. It was an easy loft, the game was out of hand, and the WR was WIDE OPEN. All I'm saying is that I don't think that play was all that impressive. He was accurate and did make the play, but as an elite prospect, he *should* make that play. All decent qbs should be able to make that throw. But even an inferior player like Jalen Hurts can make that play 7 times out 10 (assuming he scrambles successfully) too given how wide open the player was. 

 

As to your point above, I'd like to see him make that throw against a team with a better secondary defender who hadn't been left in the dust on a play at the tail end of a blowout. 

 

Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think too many college QBs could have made that play.

 

Tua was a 5* recruit and the number 1 ranked dual threat QB coming out of HS.

 

Stewart is a pretty fast WR and he had a lot of time to run around while Tua was scrambling. I doubt many DBs could have kept up with him.

 

Finally, Vanderbilt wasn’t that bad. They beat Kansas State, who was ranked in the top 20 at the time, and Tennessee at Nyland Stadium.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Sky Diver

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's the "party line" out of OBD but here's the thing.

 

A huge part of successful football is playing fast.  Pattern, BAM.  Pattern, BAM.  Pattern, BAM.   You've mastered the play so well that you don't have to think about what you need to do when you recognize it's Man, or Cover2, or Palms - you just react.

 

That's easy to achieve when you have a limited number of plays that are set up to look different and create mismatches by faking the opponent out.  It's harder to achieve when you have a large number of plays and they change every week.

 

It's a common theme, when a team improves dramatically with almost the same personnel and a different coach, to hear "Coach Wade came in and really simplified our defense" or "Coach Lynn just pared it down"  Rumor had it Roman was putting 100 plays into the game plan every week for the players to learn, then practicing about 30 and actually executing in the game maybe 15-20. 

 

It's hard to play fast in that scenario.

 

I'm all for tailoring the offense to the opponent, but it has to be done carefully and within reason to avoid overwhelming a young team/inexperienced QBs

Back in the golden days, it was quite common for Kelly and Co. to go into a game with no more than 8-12 plays and then run variations off those to exploit favorable matchups. Plays known stone cold by talented players who could execute on the fly with a QB that could read a defense. 

 

God, I miss those days. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 7/19/2018 at 9:46 AM, Bangarang said:

Run, run, low percentage pass, punt

 

possibly not in that order.

 

Low percentage pass?  Maybe we drafted the right QB after all!! 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think too many college QBs could have made that play.

 

Tua was a 5* recruit and the number 1 ranked dual threat QB coming out of HS.

 

Stewart is a pretty fast WR and he had a lot of time to run around while Tua was scrambling. I doubt many DBs could have kept up with him.

 

Finally, Vanderbilt wasn’t that bad. They beat Kansas State, who was ranked in the top 20 at the time, and Tennessee at Nyland Stadium.

6-26 in the SEC the last 4 years. Regardless, I like Tua and he looks like an elite prospect to me.

[Elite Poster]

On 7/19/2018 at 10:42 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Reasonable guess.

 

Positive take from back at the time of the hiring:

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/15/breaking-down-what-bills-can-expect-from-new-oc-brian-daboll/

 

Negative take from back at the time of the hiring:

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2018/01/15/brian-daboll-somehow-able-find-meaningful-nfl-work-2018/

 

Cover1 on the guy:

https://www.cover1.net/offensive-coordinator-brian-daboll-could-bridge-the-college-and-nfl-game-in-buffalo/

(have to register for this one)

https://www.cover1.net/home/offensive-coordinator-brian-daboll/

 

 

 

You can just remove homer 1. They blocked me on Twitter because I disagreed that Dennison's offense was not a fit for Tyrod. I kept it civil the whole time and when he got canned and Taylor got traded, I simply stated: "I think I got that one right, sometimes the guy who knows less about X's and O's knows more about fit and scheme." - blocked! Go figure, I wanted to actually become a subscriber too but not anymore.

[Sky Diver]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

6-26 in the SEC the last 4 years. Regardless, I like Tua and he looks like an elite prospect to me.

 

It’s the SEC. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Back in the golden days, it was quite common for Kelly and Co. to go into a game with no more than 8-12 plays and then run variations off those to exploit favorable matchups. Plays known stone cold by talented players who could execute on the fly with a QB that could read a defense. 

 

God, I miss those days. 

 

 

...remember KC's OC Al Saunders?......he signed with the Deadskins as OC and it was purported his playbook was 700 PAGES......700!...makes "War and Peace" look like Cliff Notes.....talk about insanity..........

Edited July 24, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Sky Diver]

13 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...remember KC's OC Al Saunders?......he signed with the Deadskins as OC and it was purported his playbook was 700 PAGES......700!...makes "War and Peace" look like Cliff Notes.....talk about insanity..........

 

I’m proud of myself that I just finished Anna Karenina. 860 pages. War and Peace is 1225 pages. Tolstoy was long winded. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

I’m proud of myself that I just finished Anna Karenina. 860 pages. War and Peace is 1225 pages. Tolstoy was long winded. 

 

...so now read Saunder's playbook and there will be a quiz tomorrow at 10AM.....miss ONE and expect the TURK.......

[Sky Diver]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so now read Saunder's playbook and there will be a quiz tomorrow at 10AM.....miss ONE and expect the TURK.......

 

That’s a tome. I guess you can’t be too stupid to be a successful NFL player.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

That’s a tome. I guess you can’t be too stupid to be a successful NFL player.

 

 

...bet if you asked Al to repeat the play on page 642, he'd blow it......what a freaking joke............

[DJB]

So far so good Id say!

 

Mixes it up. Lots of redirection. 

 

Looks like a real offence so far!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

So far so good Id say!

 

Mixes it up. Lots of redirection. 

 

Looks like a real offence so far!

 

Seemed pretty effective especially with the 1st team WR and OL out there.

 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Seemed pretty effective especially with the 1st team WR and OL out there.

 

 

Agreed, its only preseason week 1, but great first impression

[Freddie's Dead]

If this is vanilla, can't wait to see the rainbow sherbet with sprinkles and caramel.