Nate Peterman 2017 All-22 Analysis by BR

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

 

This is a great post. Not sure how Bills fans of all people can argue that ball velocity can't be developed. The poster child for that has terrorized our division for nearly 20 years... Peterman will never have Josh Allen arm strength, but he can absolutely get to the minimum threshold for an NFL QB if he works at it. It isn't his fault Dennison rushed him into the starting role before he had ample time to develop.

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is a great post. Not sure how Bills fans of all people can argue that ball velocity can't be developed. The poster child for that has terrorized our division for nearly 20 years... Peterman will never have Josh Allen arm strength, but he can absolutely get to the minimum threshold for an NFL QB if he works at it. It isn't his fault Dennison rushed him into the starting role before he had ample time to develop.

 

Yup...Brady had "arm strength" questions coming out of college as well...

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Arm strength can be and usually is improved quite a bit through weight training their first year or two.

Our GM disagrees with you.

Quote

Joe B: What's tougher to teach in your opinion... or, what's tougher to learn in the NFL: arm strength, or accuracy?

Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit...

Joe B: ...Like Aaron Rodgers improved in Green Bay with that.

Brandon Beane: Exactly. You can definitely do things from flexibility in all sorts of things that baseball pitchers do, and, we'll obviously always look at things like that. But, the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.

link

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Nah, you just clearly dont understand how arm strength is generated then.

 

 

Arm strength can be improved a little but generally a whole lot.  

40 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Our GM disagrees with you.

link

 

I agree with Beane and I believe its pretty the consensus with the NFL community.

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

 

That is not true at all.

[LABILLBACKER]

I don't need no stinking analytics. I don't need an all 22 or some 22 or no 22. Nate Peterman passes the eye test as a very good and serviceable backup to Josh for many years. Not going to over think this.

Edited June 29, 2018 by LABILLBACKER
spelling

[Big Turk]

30 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Arm strength can be improved a little but generally a whole lot.  

 

I agree with Beane and I believe its pretty the consensus with the NFL community.

 

That is not true at all.

Yes it is. Thats been said by multiple scouts.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, matter2003 said:

Yes it is. Thats been said by multiple scouts.

 

I've know about 15-17 people that went on to play college football at the QB position and all of them told me that weight training at the college level is insanely hard.

I've seen videos of college QB weight training.  I've worked out with college QB's because I was a collegiate athlete myself.  

You can look at the build of college QB's and can easily tell who lifts and who doesn't.  

 

It's not the same heavy lifting you'd see from a skilled position player or a guy that plays the front 7 but many, if not most, are lifting.  Especially core and leg workouts.

 

Brandon Beane was also a scout, he said you can only improve arm strength a little.  You say it can be improved a lot.  Beane's wrong, you're right?

 

[Big Turk]

41 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I've know about 15-17 people that went on to play college football at the QB position and all of them told me that weight training at the college level is insanely hard.

I've seen videos of college QB weight training.  I've worked out with college QB's because I was a collegiate athlete myself.  

You can look at the build of college QB's and can easily tell who lifts and who doesn't.  

 

It's not the same heavy lifting you'd see from a skilled position player or a guy that plays the front 7 but many, if not most, are lifting.  Especially core and leg workouts.

 

Brandon Beane was also a scout, he said you can only improve arm strength a little.  You say it can be improved a lot.  Beane's wrong, you're right?

 

 

Well I think our definitions of a "lot" might be different. If you think you are going to take a guy with a below average arm and turn him into Dan Marino that isn't happening. But you can most definitely take a below average arm and turn him into an average to slightly above average arm.

 

Its like anything. At some point your natural ability determines how high you can go. What I am talking about is merely getting as close to your ceiling as possible.

 

Adding 5 mph to your throws is well within the possibility for a lot of players

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Well I think our definitions of a "lot" might be different. If you think you are going to take a guy with a below average arm and turn him into Dan Marino that isn't happening. But you can most definitely take a below average arm and turn him into an average to slightly above average arm.

 

Its like anything. At some point your natural ability determines how high you can go. What I am talking about is merely getting as close to your ceiling as possible.

 

Adding 5 mph to your throws is well within the possibility for a lot of players

 

I can agree with this.

[Go-Bills]

21 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

That might be true. But he is also dumb as dirt under pressure.

i disagree if you look at the interceptions and break them down he made the right choice, each receiver had beat their man but no time to throw.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7m_iuhIuA

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Well I think our definitions of a "lot" might be different. If you think you are going to take a guy with a below average arm and turn him into Dan Marino that isn't happening. But you can most definitely take a below average arm and turn him into an average to slightly above average arm.

 

Its like anything. At some point your natural ability determines how high you can go. What I am talking about is merely getting as close to your ceiling as possible.

 

Adding 5 mph to your throws is well within the possibility for a lot of players

 

So the question is... how below average was Peterman's arm?

 

I just really thought his arm was too weak last summer. When NFL defenders see throws like these--

 

It looks like the NFL QB version of this--

3 hours ago, Go-Bills said:

i disagree if you look at the interceptions and break them down he made the right choice, each receiver had beat their man but no time to throw.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7m_iuhIuA

 

Or there wasn't enough velocity on the ball to get to the WR rather than the defender.

[BigDingus]

17 hours ago, matter2003 said:

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

 

Notice the crickets since you posted this?

He's nowhere to be found lol. Props to you, good post!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't need no stinking analytics. I don't need an all 22 or some 22 or no 22. Nate Peterman passes the eye test as a very good and serviceable backup to Josh for many years. Not going to over think this.

 ?? 

 

This is the most likely event.  

 

AJ McCarron is most likely here 1 or 2 if Allen is legit.    

 

If Nate has improved and he can come in if needed and play like he did in the Saints debacle he’ll be fine. 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

On 6/28/2018 at 4:16 PM, dickleyjones said:

Schrodinger's QB, eh?

 

so peterman is an example of why quantum mechanics is ridiculous? i don't get it.

 

Pickerman can either exist or not.  We can also apply the "observer effect", which in Pickerman's case means that the simple act of observing him makes him suck more.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 6/29/2018 at 8:09 AM, Captain Hindsight said:

What does it matter what realistic expectations are? 

 

I expect NFL players to perform at a competent NFL level. Last season Peterman failed to do that.

 

...had to been an exhaustive amount of ruminating on his extensive body of work to reach that conclusion......

[HappyDays]

14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

So the question is... how below average was Peterman's arm?

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

[Jay_Fixit]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

I’d love to know what Dan McGwire’s was in Tecmo Super Bowl. I’d say between 9-13 MPH.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

 

I thought I read that Peterman's was 51 after being revised upwards?  If it's 53, improving a couple MPH should be doable.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I thought I read that Peterman's was 51 after being revised upwards?  If it's 53, improving a couple MPH should be doable.

 

Now I'm confused because this article says he threw 49 MPH:

 

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

And other articles are evenly split between saying he threw 53 or 49. So now I'm not sure what his velocity was at the combine. Weird.

[major]

Peterman is our jar jar binks at TBD