Brandon Beane: The Art of a Deal

[oldmanfan]

57 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Lynch admitted he didn't act professionally in Buffalo but did once he got to Seattle.  !@#$.

 

As for Dareus, he played well-enough to earn a big contract.  But whether he should have been given $17M/year is debatable and not having any protections for the Bills in there was a major blunder.

The way they structured Dareus' contract was awful.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did Dareus drive like a demon scattering pedestrians during daylight hours?  I musta missed it - not a surprise.

 

I hear what you say, John.  I do.  As I've said elsewhere, you need the top-paid players to be the leaders, the hardest workers, the guys who prepare hard and train hard and play hard on every down.  And when I've looked at the success elsewhere of players we once traded for a fire-sale price such as Marshawn Lynch, or if Watkins succeeds and Dareus gets back to form elsewhere, I've told and will tell myself "you can't assume they could have been as successful here, they needed that change of scene or that wake-up call".

But then there's this bottom line: to have a chance to be successful, sooner or later we have to be able to provide that "wake up call" or change of scene internally, through coaching or player leaders or what-have-you.  Because you can't become a great team by continually trading away your top-drafted talent for pennies on the dollar.

https://recklessdrivingny.com/blog/reckless-driving-buffalo-bills-marcell-dareus/

 

I'm not an idealist or purist who believes everyone has to fit the angelic mold. In a locker room there is a wide range of people with different personalities and work habits. Not everyone is going to be a work out warrior during the season or offseason. I'm not an ideologue on this issue and allow for some forbearance and flexibility. Not every lineman is going to live up to the Kyle Williams standard. However, when this new regime took over they clearly stated how they wanted to build the roster and the type of diligent people they prefer beyond the issue of talent. Repeatedly, Dareus has failed that standard. That doesn't mean that he is a bad guy but it does indicate that he is not meeting an established standard. 

 

In my view I believe that Dareus is capable of being one of the top interior linemen in the league. He demonstrated that elite level of play when he was playing for a contract. After he got it he fell into a pattern of play and behavior that reflected his immaturity and unpreparedness. 

 

Dareus wasn't dispatched because this regime didn't want him. When he played at his maximum potential he was well worth his gilded contract. He was traded because he failed to meet his responsibilities on and off the field. It's easy to apply your high standards to the fringe players. But when you apply your high standards to your best players you are sending a message that reverberates throughout the roster. Why do you think that the Bills made the playoffs last year with a stripped down team? They made it because everyone bought in to what the HC was espousing. 

 

I like Dareus and want him to succeed. It wasn't going to happen in Buffalo. As I stated before being traded to Jacksonville was the right thing to do for Dareus and for the Bills. I sincerely wish him the best. 

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With respect, that is to an extent revisionist history.  There was a point where people who know their football were saying "Marcell Dareus is the best DT in the league, Period."

Did he let that slide, yes, he did.  And slacking gets to be a habit, just like anything else a fellow does for a while.

 

My point is that at the end of the day, to field a championship team, you need top talent.  Top talent is NOT always going to be married to great character, maturity, and singleness of purpose.  So to succeed as Champions somehow at the end of the day the Bills need to be able to provide whatever it was that allowed Marshawn Lynch to succeed in Seattle in a way that he could or would not here; if Dareus regains his form in Jax ditto.

 

Preach. If a talented player doesn't play well for you, goes over to Jax or any other situation and does play well.. it's a poor reflection on your ability to bring out the best in your employees. Ability to maximize high maintenance but highly talented employees shows your ability as a manager/coach.. anything in life.

[26CornerBlitz]

Speaking of Dareus, this is a nice gesture by him.

 

[Behindenemylines]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:47 PM, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Preach. If a talented player doesn't play well for you, goes over to Jax or any other situation and does play well.. it's a poor reflection on your ability to bring out the best in your employees. Ability to maximize high maintenance but highly talented employees shows your ability as a manager/coach.. anything in life.

I agree with that 90% of the time.  Sometimes people decide on things impossible to control such as location etc.  How that affects attitude and performance cannot be accounted for.   

[transplantbillsfan]

Good stuff!!! 

 

I just really have a lot of confidence in Beane. He demonstrates a lot of that reason for it here.

[JohnC]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:47 PM, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Preach. f a talented player doesn't play well for you, goes over to Jax or any other situation and does play well.. it's a poor reflection on your ability to bring out the best in your employees. Ability to maximize high maintenance but highly talented employees shows your ability as a manager/coach.. anything in life.

If a talented player doesn't play well for you he isn't playing well for you. It doesn't matter how much potential you have as a player. In the end it's about production. He wasn't playing to his talent level and his bonanza contract. The onus is on the player. 

 

McBeane didn't junk Dareus because of an incident. They dispatched him because of a pattern of behavior over an extended period of time. What you are essentially saying here is that it is the fault of the teacher when the smart kid who sleeps in class and doesn't crack a book and do his homework fails. That is a perverted notion of accountability and responsibility. 

 

Maybe a change of scenery with a different coaching staff  will work wonders for Dareus. If so, I will be happy for him, What was evident in Buffalo was that Dareus wasn't buying in to what was expected of him. Dareus is not a bad guy. But that is not to say that he was a responsible and accountable person either. The person most responsible for him being traded is the player himself. The Bills have moved on. It was a tough decision but also the right decision. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 6/28/2018 at 10:10 AM, Happy Gilmore said:

 

The point you make about retaining and not trading top talent for pennies on the dollar is well taken and typically hard to argue against.  If a team must trade top talent, it should strive to get a premium for them, I agree.  In cases like Dareus and Lynch, I think the Bills tried to work with them and give them every chance possible.  The problem arises is that if such players cannot, or will not, realize they need to shape up (both on and off the field) the team has no choice but to unload them at a discount.  Other teams have pro scouts whose job it is to gather ALL information on the player, so any potential trade partner knows the issues regardless of talent and playing potential.  So in the cases of Lynch and Dareus, no team was going to pay a premium on them due to behavioral issues.

 

....solid assessment.....just my opinion, but Lynch, Dareus & Peters really didn't want to be in Bflo.....so you get what you can and move on.....

[Happy]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....solid assessment.....just my opinion, but Lynch, Dareus & Peters really didn't want to be in Bflo.....so you get what you can and move on.....

 

Exactly.  You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Exactly.  You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

 

 

...LMAO.....the "Turnip Trio"......you win...

[Punching Bag]

On 6/27/2018 at 10:49 PM, billsfan89 said:

 

I get why they traded Dareus but it was no coincidence that once he was traded the run defense fell off a cliff. It almost sabotaged the defense on the season but longer-term shedding that salary and getting him out of the culture might be worth it. 

 

 

It is also no coincidence they also has good games when he was unable to play before traded.

Two coincidences pointing to opposite directions means it is not as strong a point as some emphasis.

On 6/28/2018 at 11:52 AM, oldmanfan said:

The way they structured Dareus' contract was awful.

That was all on Jim Overdorf who was in control of all contracts.

Beane was given full control and will only use Jim Overdorf "when needed".

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

It is also no coincidence they also has good games when he was unable to play before traded.

Two coincidences pointing to opposite directions means it is not as strong a point as some emphasis.

 

 

...just didn't see where his heart was here with McD/McBeane demanding accountability, discipline & team focus.....odd that he ends up in J-Ville with da Furher Coughlin being even more demanding and Marrone a disciple  of disciplined culture.....

[BuffaloBill]

On 6/26/2018 at 3:24 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Makes me glad we traded him.  I didn't know Dareus said that, obviously very disappointing.  I have some compassion for Dareus as he has had a brutal life and, and honestly isn't too bright.  But he brought it all on himself, not like he couldn't see it coming after some of the trades they had already done with Watkins, no player that wasn't on board no matter what the talent wasn't safe.  Trust the process.

 

Dareus has monster talent but his inconsistency and lack of drive really ruined his career in Buffalo.  It’s hard to understand how he could play next to Kyle Williams and not have some of that tenacity and leadership rub off on him.

[John from Riverside]

Loved todays stuff on the board about Syron Neil (sp)

 

This is how GM's really effectively manage the cap....if they can find guys in the later rounds that play several defense schemes they keep the cost of those players down.....allowing the kids like Neil and Edmunds to grow up together.....and still have the ability to be competative in the free agent market for positions that they could not fill via draft.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/30/2018 at 12:56 PM, Limeaid said:

That was all on Jim Overdorf who was in control of all contracts.

Beane was given full control and will only use Jim Overdorf "when needed".

 

So if Overdorf isn't doing contracts now, what IS he doing?

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So if Overdorf isn't doing contracts now, what IS he doing?

 

Maybe an Advisor of Contracts?  Just make sure the format and the language in the contract is right.  Maybe be now Beane sets the comp.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Maybe an Advisor of Contracts?  Just make sure the format and the language in the contract is right.  Maybe be now Beane sets the comp.

 

Could be, I guess

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Could be, I guess

 

....haven't seen anything Hap that changes his 2008 promotion......

Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring

• Associated Press
• Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.
• Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m.

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.

[Punching Bag]

He was specifically quoted as going to have Jim Overdorf look at something meaning that he always doesn't.

This was post January 2018.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

He was specifically quoted as going to have Jim Overdorf look at something meaning that he always doesn't.

This was post January 2018.

 

 

...so if McBeane deemed Overdorf as a "prior regime impediment", why wouldn't Pegula pull the trigger to find someone else better?.....he certainly could afford (COUGH) the "best and the brightest", right?......just askin' here........

[Punching Bag]

I am assuming he does other things Beane needs.   It is not really coach McD's area.

 

And many companies have issues getting rid of long term VPs due to contracts and stuff.  

One of the companies I worked at needed to pay VP until he found position which was in company not in competition with company and he just treated as early retirement with full pay.

[3rdand12]

On 6/30/2018 at 9:04 AM, JohnC said:

If a talented player doesn't play well for you he isn't playing well for you. It doesn't matter how much potential you have as a player. In the end it's about production. He wasn't playing to his talent level and his bonanza contract. The onus is on the player. 

 

McBeane didn't junk Dareus because of an incident. They dispatched him because of a pattern of behavior over an extended period of time. What you are essentially saying here is that it is the fault of the teacher when the smart kid who sleeps in class and doesn't crack a book and do his homework fails. That is a perverted notion of accountability and responsibility. 

 

Maybe a change of scenery with a different coaching staff  will work wonders for Dareus. If so, I will be happy for him, What was evident in Buffalo was that Dareus wasn't buying in to what was expected of him. Dareus is not a bad guy. But that is not to say that he was a responsible and accountable person either. The person most responsible for him being traded is the player himself. The Bills have moved on. It was a tough decision but also the right decision. 

Can we also consider that McD inherited players. He scrubbed them over in his way and felt they would not work out long term in his method of Building His Team.
 I feel more aligned in between you fellows.
If ya draft him ? He's your baby. If you raise him wrong ? Its on you.     No question for me on that
 

 Both of you are correct.

 

 It's always a cop out by me , but context makes every case unique.

 

like why Mills whiffed all those times. deep diving tells you whys and wherefores 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Can we also consider that McD inherited players. He scrubbed them over in his way and felt they would not work out long term in his method of Building His Team.
 I feel more aligned in between you fellows.
If ya draft him ? He's your baby. If you raise him wrong ? Its on you.     No question for me on that
 

 Both of you are correct.

 

 It's always a cop out by me , but context makes every case unique.

 

like why Mills whiffed all those times. deep diving tells you whys and wherefores 

I disagree with your stance. Although Dareus wasn't drafted or brought in by McDermott that doesn't mean that he automatically was inclined to get rid of him. When Dareus was playing for a big contract he was one of the best interior linemen in the league. Once he got the bonanza contract his play and effort precipitously declined. McDermott didn't get rid of him because he was linked to a prior regime. He would have loved to have him play at his peak level. This was a player who was one of the best defensive players in the league. You don't think that this defensive minded HC would have loved to have had that elite type of player regardless who originally drafted him? That's not what happened here. Once Dareus had his golden contract secured he became a slacker. His performance didn't come close to matching his cost. 

 

McDermott has clearly stated that he wanted players who were committed to their profession. He wants character guys who are self-motivated. He doesn't want to be a coach who has to wake up a player in the film room. And he doesn't want to be a coach who has to constantly harangue a player about conditioning and a jello fat stomach hanging over his belt. 

 

Based on his own extended slothful behavior Dareus got himself traded. And it was the right thing to do. 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

like why Mills whiffed all those times. deep diving tells you whys and wherefores 

 

He inherited Mills and he has been kept so far despite not bring on rookie contract.

If he whiffed so many times why didn't coaching staff get rid of him.

Maybe you are not as big as expert on wiffle ball as you think?

 

He was drafted with a 5th round pick like P5t5rman so that makes him gold?

 

[Doc]

McD came in and gave everyone a clean slate to prove himself one way or another.  Those who didn't give it their all and/or were problems were sent packing, even if they had more talent than those who remained.  But that doesn't mean he's not looking to continue to upgrade. 

[C.Biscuit97]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

McD came in and gave everyone a clean slate to prove himself one way or another.  Those who didn't give it their all and/or were problems were sent packing, even if they had more talent than those who remained.  But that doesn't mean he's not looking to continue to upgrade. 

He seems to target all of Whaley’s players. Sammy was part of the team that had one of the biggest turnarounds in nfl history and highest scoring offense.  Dareus helped the Jags run defense improve greatly. Darby was a starting cb on a SB team. Ragland started for a playoff team.

[3rdand12]

16 hours ago, JohnC said:

I disagree with your stance. Although Dareus wasn't drafted or brought in by McDermott that doesn't mean that he automatically was inclined to get rid of him. When Dareus was playing for a big contract he was one of the best interior linemen in the league. Once he got the bonanza contract his play and effort precipitously declined. McDermott didn't get rid of him because he was linked to a prior regime. He would have loved to have him play at his peak level. This was a player who was one of the best defensive players in the league. You don't think that this defensive minded HC would have loved to have had that elite type of player regardless who originally drafted him? That's not what happened here. Once Dareus had his golden contract secured he became a slacker. His performance didn't come close to matching his cost. 

 

McDermott has clearly stated that he wanted players who were committed to their profession. He wants character guys who are self-motivated. He doesn't want to be a coach who has to wake up a player in the film room. And he doesn't want to be a coach who has to constantly harangue a player about conditioning and a jello fat stomach hanging over his belt. 

 

Based on his own extended slothful behavior Dareus got himself traded. And it was the right thing to do. 

 

 

 I cannot argue why Dareus was traded.
 My comment was if McBeane had drafted him he could and should be accountable for his success. Because he inherited him his stake was less.. next question might be ? Would McD have drafted him ?

 and would he and Beane been able to keep him in line ?

i think no to the second question and a likely no to the first.

 

 It was the right thing to do as you mention, moving on

15 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

He inherited Mills and he has been kept so far despite not bring on rookie contract.

If he whiffed so many times why didn't coaching staff get rid of him.

Maybe you are not as big as expert on wiffle ball as you think?

 

He was drafted with a 5th round pick like P5t5rman so that makes him gold?

 

No question I am just a fan whos watches the games and follows the team. and i have no idea why Bills did not upgrade as soon as possible.

 was that player Dawkins ? and fate turned on that plan?

 

: ) and yes, it has been awhile since i whiffled

Edited July 3, 2018 by 3rdand12

[John from Riverside]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He seems to target all of Whaley’s players. Sammy was part of the team that had one of the biggest turnarounds in nfl history and highest scoring offense.  Dareus helped the Jags run defense improve greatly. Darby was a starting cb on a SB team. Ragland started for a playoff team.

McD's team also made the playoffs?

 

but lets recap

 

Marcel while he was here was one drug test away from a year suspension.....was constantly falling asleep and late to team meetings......this is a 100 million dollar player that you are trying to "change the culture" is staring them in the face.....he had to go.....sometimes a change of scenery helps players.....but Marcel could very easily fall back into old habits with his new team as well....he is not a self motivator.  Had to go.

 

Sammy Watkins for all of his talent is onto what...his 3rd team?   Talks crap about every team he leaves...and we didnt even know if the kid could stay healthy when he was with us and wanted a huge contract that was not going to be paid out.

 

While we are talking about Darby....lets throw Gilmore in there as well....the bills jettisoned these two players and came out the back end with a cheaper and BETTER secondary overall

 

Ragland didnt fit the defense...they got what they could for him....I am not a fan of buying high and selling low either...but Bean DIDNT DRAFT HIM....he doesnt have the range on the field to start for us...he fits the defense he was traded to which is fine.

[C.Biscuit97]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

McD's team also made the playoffs?

 

but lets recap

 

Marcel while he was here was one drug test away from a year suspension.....was constantly falling asleep and late to team meetings......this is a 100 million dollar player that you are trying to "change the culture" is staring them in the face.....he had to go.....sometimes a change of scenery helps players.....but Marcel could very easily fall back into old habits with his new team as well....he is not a self motivator.  Had to go.

 

Sammy Watkins for all of his talent is onto what...his 3rd team?   Talks crap about every team he leaves...and we didnt even know if the kid could stay healthy when he was with us and wanted a huge contract that was not going to be paid out.

 

While we are talking about Darby....lets throw Gilmore in there as well....the bills jettisoned these two players and came out the back end with a cheaper and BETTER secondary overall

 

Ragland didnt fit the defense...they got what they could for him....I am not a fan of buying high and selling low either...but Bean DIDNT DRAFT HIM....he doesnt have the range on the field to start for us...he fits the defense he was traded to which is fine.

Man, you love the kool aid!!!  Maybe if we had Sammy and Dareus at our two of our biggest positions of weaknesses, maybe we beat the Jags and make a run in a crappy AFC.

 

and I like our secondary but we went from 6th in 2016 to 20th last year.  Basically we defied all logic in making the playoffs last year.  Of course, missing the playoffs 17 years in a row defies logic too.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Man, you love the kool aid!!!  Maybe if we had Sammy and Dareus at our two of our biggest positions of weaknesses, maybe we beat the Jags and make a run in a crappy AFC.

 

and I like our secondary but we went from 6th in 2016 to 20th last year.  Basically we defied all logic in making the playoffs last year.  Of course, missing the playoffs 17 years in a row defies logic too.

Or maybe we dont win enough games for the jags game to even happen......because fat ass lazy Marcel Darius is either taking up a roster spot hurt or giving bad effort....maybe he is dragging the locker room down causing the team to not play as well on the field.

 

Watkins?   I honestly dont know how much he would have helped....I do know that we were not going to be able to resign him (or if they even wanted to)

 

Keep in mind that bills team MADE the playoffs because McD got a lot of effort out of less talented players.....I will take that over primodonnas that show up to team meetings late and B word in the locker room.

[3rdand12]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Or maybe we dont win enough games for the jags game to even happen......because fat ass lazy Marcel Darius is either taking up a roster spot hurt or giving bad effort....maybe he is dragging the locker room down causing the team to not play as well on the field.

 

Watkins?   I honestly dont know how much he would have helped....I do know that we were not going to be able to resign him (or if they even wanted to)

 

Keep in mind that bills team MADE the playoffs because McD got a lot of effort out of less talented players.....I will take that over primodonnas that show up to team meetings late and B word in the locker room.

My  argument is financials . Moving Dareus when Bills did. They already had sunk money into him.

 Moving Ragland and Darby on rookie contracts. Maybe one more year to turn them ?

 But i respect decisive action.

 Go Bills

 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

My  argument is financials . Moving Dareus when Bills did. They already had sunk money into him.

 Moving Ragland and Darby on rookie contracts. Maybe one more year to turn them ?

 But i respect decisive action.

 Go Bills

 

I think this all just the bills doing a soft rebiuld and realizing the sunk cost was in the wrong players.

 

and honestly I think they did better last year then they expected to.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

My  argument is financials . Moving Dareus when Bills did. They already had sunk money into him.

 Moving Ragland and Darby on rookie contracts. Maybe one more year to turn them ?

 But i respect decisive action.

 Go Bills

 

 

...cannot agree with Dareus bud....he was just pullin' their chain and had to go.......he got bit by the Lynch-Peters "I want out" bug.......strangest part is going to Jax with da Fuhrer Coughlin in charge....and Marrone vowed to be a "culture changer" in Buffalo .but Brandon/Whaley didn't like his General Patton style and wanting them in every team meeting...

[Doc]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He seems to target all of Whaley’s players. Sammy was part of the team that had one of the biggest turnarounds in nfl history and highest scoring offense.  Dareus helped the Jags run defense improve greatly. Darby was a starting cb on a SB team. Ragland started for a playoff team.

 

He got rid of 2 Whaley players (Watkins and Darby) and 2 Nix players (Glenn and Dareus).  Ragland I consider a Rex pick. 

 

And outside of maybe Sammy, none of them were key in helping their teams make the playoffs last year.  The Jags, Eagles and Chefs were playing well without Dareus, Darby, and Ragland, and the Rams' offensive turnaround (they already had a great defense and ST's) was due to McVay.

 

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Man, you love the kool aid!!!  Maybe if we had Sammy and Dareus at our two of our biggest positions of weaknesses, maybe we beat the Jags and make a run in a crappy AFC.

 

and I like our secondary but we went from 6th in 2016 to 20th last year.  Basically we defied all logic in making the playoffs last year.  Of course, missing the playoffs 17 years in a row defies logic too.

 

Again, had the Bills beaten the Jags, they would have faced the Cheaters and lost.  And then Sammy and Dareus would have been gone for no compensation. 

[3rdand12]

19 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...cannot agree with Dareus bud....he was just pullin' their chain and had to go.......he got bit by the Lynch-Peters "I want out" bug.......strangest part is going to Jax with da Fuhrer Coughlin in charge....and Marrone vowed to be a "culture changer" in Buffalo .but Brandon/Whaley didn't like his General Patton style and wanting them in every team meeting...

I understand  : )

 I also was surprised where Dareus went !

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

I understand  : )

 I also was surprised where Dareus went !

 

....will be interesting to see if he "stays the course" in 2018 or reverts back to his "old ways"........stay tuned..........da Fuhrer will be watching.....

[3rdand12]

Maybe Tom is getting soft in his old age. I just find it hard to see Dareus showing up five minutes early to meetings and practice. Marroon kind of  a s stick up the bum kind of fellow as well.

 maybe best thing for Marcel ? Hope so