[Incomplete Title] Sabres (21-12-5) & NHL 2018-19 - Game 39 (MSG-B) vs. BOS (20-14-4) at 7 PM ET on 12/29

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I must not know hockey. Reinhardt always seems to miss an open net. Just flipped over and saw him unable to bury the puck. I'm sure he is good but I just don't see it as a shooter 

 

Edit: Anddddddddd, I'm an ass. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by EmotionallyUnstable

[BillsFan4]

6 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

 

 

How'd it happen? Have the colts beat down on 

Thwre was a faceoff in buffalo’s end. Tampa won it, got a shot on net and Brayden Point buried the rebound. 

 

[njbuff]

Top 5 Center duo's of all time...........

 

5. Crosby and Malkin

 

4. Yzerman and Federov

 

3. Sakic and Forsberg

 

2. Mario and Francis

 

1. Gretzky and Messier

 

Honorable mention to Trottier and Goring

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

Scandella blows and should not be playing. Bad sequence of events in last 5 min to ruin a chance at points. I know this season is almost like found money, but it’s going off the rails quickly. Real good chance they don’t make the playoffs. 

[EersN'Bills]

What worries me is that the Islanders and Canadiens have good coaches in Trotz and Julien.

 

Phil...I wouldn't characterize him as a "good" coach.

[zow2]

The Sabres came up small again this weekend. And they have a relatively healthy roster.  Phil has got to go.  This club was in first overall after 25 games. After 45 games they are clear out of the playoffs.  What a free fall.  Ugh. 

[BillsFan4]

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2019/01/12/sabres-slip-out-of-playoff-position-behind-habs-isles/

 

Sabres now sit outside of a playoff position with the loss tonight. Montreal passed them in the standings and currently hold the last wildcard spot over the Sabres. 

 

It was only a matter of time. I think we could all see this coming with their slide in the standings since the 10 game win streak. 

 

They’ve still been playing some good hockey though. 

 

Really, this is about where I hoped they would be at the start of the season - trying to sneak into that last wildcard spot. 

 

I was hoping to see them be competitive in every game (which they have, for the most part) and figured they’d probably lose a lot of close ones this season. I hoped that they would push for a wildcard spot and be in the mix right till the end. I wanted the kids finally playing important games into February-march. All that is happening, so I keep trying to remind myself of that. That 10 game win streak caused us all to get our hopes up... but I think we all know that they were overachieving during that span.

 

I obviously wanted (and still want) them to make the playoffs. But it’s not all that often a team goes from last place to the playoffs in consecutive years. 

 

Outside of the top line, this team just doesn’t have the talent to be all that much better than they are right now, IMO. Guys like Mittelstadt and Thompson are very talented, but they’re just not quite ready to be impact players in the NHL yet (not on any type of regular basis anyway). And the vets are basically a collection of 3rd and 4th liners. 

 

We have a 1st line and then a hodgepodge of bottom 6 players (not that Mitts and Thompson will always be bottom 6 players, they’re just not ready for full time top 6 roles yet). 

 

The Sabres are pretty much missing an entire 2nd line right now. How far can you go without a 2nd line to help carry the load? Look at Colorado right now. They have the best 1st line in the NHL (MacKinnon and Rantanen have 66 and 68 points, respectively) with comparable, but slightly better secondary scoring to the Sabres and they are in free fall right now too. They’ve lost 9 of their last 10. 

 

 

There is still a lot of work to be done on this team. But they have definitely taken a step forward in their rebuild this year. This is the first time I legitimately feel that way since the rebuild started. I feel like this team is finally headed in the right direction. Guys like Eichel and Reinhart are taking the next step in their development. We are seeing more and more flashes of Tage Thompson’s skill. The team as a whole is finally competitive on a consistent basis. They are playing like an actual NHL level team and doing the things good NHL teams do. Rochester is playing good hockey. They are firmly in a playoff spot. The prospects down there seem to be developing. Our other prospects outside of the AHL are coming along nicely. We have FOUR 1st round picks over the next 2 years (1 of which could potentially be a lottery pick next year).

IMO things are finally looking up. 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by BillsFan4

[Chandler#81]

Depressing. Won’t have another home game this month. I shudder to think where we’ll be then when they return to New Era.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

8 hours ago, zow2 said:

The Sabres came up small again this weekend. And they have a relatively healthy roster.  Phil has got to go.  This club was in first overall after 25 games. After 45 games they are clear out of the playoffs.  What a free fall.  Ugh. 

 

It's been a bad stretch. 3-7 over the past 10. But clear out of the playoffs? Come on

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2019/01/12/sabres-slip-out-of-playoff-position-behind-habs-isles/

 

Sabres now sit outside of a playoff position with the loss tonight. Montreal passed them in the standings and currently hold the last wildcard spot over the Sabres. 

 

It was only a matter of time. I think we could all see this coming with their slide in the standings since the 10 game win streak. 

 

They’ve still been playing some good hockey though. 

 

Really, this is about where I hoped they would be at the start of the season - trying to sneak into that last wildcard spot. 

 

I was hoping to see them be competitive in every game (which they have, for the most part) and figured they’d probably lose a lot of close ones this season. I hoped that they would push for a wildcard spot and be in the mix right till the end. I wanted the kids finally playing important games into February-march. All that is happening, so I keep trying to remind myself of that. That 10 game win streak caused us all to get our hopes up... but I think we all know that they were overachieving during that span.

 

I obviously wanted (and still want) them to make the playoffs. But it’s not all that often a team goes from last place to the playoffs in consecutive years. 

 

Outside of the top line, this team just doesn’t have the talent to be all that much better than they are right now, IMO. Guys like Mittelstadt and Thompson are very talented, but they’re just not quite ready to be impact players in the NHL yet (not on any type of regular basis anyway). And the vets are basically a collection of 3rd and 4th liners. 

 

We have a 1st line and then a hodgepodge of bottom 6 players (not that Mitts and Thompson will always be bottom 6 players, they’re just not ready for full time top 6 roles yet). 

 

The Sabres are pretty much missing an entire 2nd line right now. How far can you go without a 2nd line to help carry the load? Look at Colorado right now. They have the best 1st line in the NHL (MacKinnon and Rantanen have 66 and 68 points, respectively) with comparable, but slightly better secondary scoring to the Sabres and they are in free fall right now too. They’ve lost 9 of their last 10. 

 

 

There is still a lot of work to be done on this team. But they have definitely taken a step forward in their rebuild this year. This is the first time I legitimately feel that way since the rebuild started. I feel like this team is finally headed in the right direction. Guys like Eichel and Reinhart are taking the next step in their development. We are seeing more and more flashes of Tage Thompson’s skill. The team as a whole is finally competitive on a consistent basis. They are playing like an actual NHL level team and doing the things good NHL teams do. Rochester is playing good hockey. They are firmly in a playoff spot. The prospects down there seem to be developing. Our other prospects outside of the AHL are coming along nicely. We have FOUR 1st round picks over the next 2 years (1 of which could potentially be a lottery pick next year).

IMO things are finally looking up. 

 

 

 

Excellent analysis and post. 

 

You rightly/smartly put in perspective where this franchise is in its development. Too many people got caught up in the exciting ten game winning streak and used it as a benchmark to compare to. In that streak that mostly consisted of one goal games the puck bounced in our favor. But that was an unrealistic measuring stick. 

 

The right perspective to take is comparing last year's team to this year's team. When this season is over  we should be more than 20 points better. And I still believe that we will be vying for a wild-card spot. Clearly, I'm not guaranteeing we will make the post-season but we will be in the mix. 

 

The reason why the Sabres are fading is simple: They don't have enough talent to have a well-rounded contending team. That's the brutal reality.  There are people who are sounding the alarm that our coaching is a prime reason why this team is starting to sputter. I disagree. This team has consistently played hard but in the end talent prevails. Yesterday's game against Tampa is an example of that. We matched them with effort and on the scoreboard until the end. Then their fire-power that came from multiple lines resulted in the difference. At this point we can't match the potency of the serious teams. 

 

As you noted what is most important is the development of our young players, such as Thompson, Mittelstad, Pilut and hopefully in the not too distant future Nylander and Guhle. Dahlin is in a special class but even with him there is a potential that he has barely scratched. 

 

My belief is to stay the course and have the fortitude to stick with the plan that has been outlined. Botterill has on many occasions repeated and reinforced that is what he is going to do. Some are discouraged but not I. I am more encouraged then ever. It's not about today as it is about tomorrow. 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by JohnC

[Nextmanup]

The TB game was frustrating in that we played well enough to win, including one of our best 1st periods of the season.  TB is probably the best team in the league, though.

 

I think we are good enough to make the playoffs this year and I'll be disappointed if we don't.

 

We are actually a little ahead of where I thought we'd be this year.  I predicted no playoffs for us this year, pre-season.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Nextmanup

[BillsFan4]

 

Feel bad for the guy. His post game interview from the end of last season was tough to watch. Gorges was literally in tears talking about how that could have been his last game ever in the NHL. 

 

I was hoping he could catch on somwehere as a #7/8 type, but knew that realistically he was probably done. I think that micro fracture knee surgery just slowed him down way too much to play in the current NHL. Still feel for thr guy, though. He was a warrior and always a heart&soul team first guy. 

 

Good luck in whatever comes next JG! 

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

 

 

[plenzmd1]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:54 AM, JohnC said:

Excellent analysis and post. 

 

You rightly/smartly put in perspective where this franchise is in its development. Too many people got caught up in the exciting ten game winning streak and used it as a benchmark to compare to. In that streak that mostly consisted of one goal games the puck bounced in our favor. But that was an unrealistic measuring stick. 

 

The right perspective to take is comparing last year's team to this year's team. When this season is over  we should be more than 20 points better

3

I could not disagree more on these points. That team last year underperformed so bad  as to be laughable. To then decide the Sabres are having relative success cause that team sucked so bad is just not the right comparison in my view. With that thinking, Bills should have stayed with Tyrod cause he was so much better than EJ.Let's judge against other teams in the NHL, not a historically bad and underachieving Sabre team We are in year two of Bottrel, and to use your words this team is awful outside a " streak where the puck bounced in their favor". They have 15 wins in regulation out of 45 games....that just flat out sucks, especially early in the year. 

 

Remember, the tank team had a similar run of success, but they still sucked. (and you think I cranky now, should have seen when they won like 8 of 10). I am not saying this team sucks, I am saying they are playing poorly, and have been worse than a mediocre team that got lucky for ten games.and at some point, the coach has got to start being held accountable.

 

And I think looking at those first rounders as any kind of help in the next two years is just extremely wishful thinking. I do wonder what the rate of 1st rounders after pick 6 plays in the NHL within a year of their draft..prolly less than 10%.

[JohnC]

33 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I could not disagree more on these points. That team last year underperformed so bad  as to be laughable. To then decide the Sabres are having relative success cause that team sucked so bad is just not the right comparison in my view. With that thinking, Bills should have stayed with Tyrod cause he was so much better than EJ.Let's judge against other teams in the NHL, not a historically bad and underachieving Sabre team We are in year two of Bottrel, and to use your words this team is awful outside a " streak where the puck bounced in their favor". They have 15 wins in regulation out of 45 games....that just flat out sucks, especially early in the year. 

 

Remember, the tank team had a similar run of success, but they still sucked. (and you think I cranky now, should have seen when they won like 8 of 10). I am not saying this team sucks, I am saying they are playing poorly, and have been worse than a mediocre team that got lucky for ten games.and at some point, the coach has got to start being held accountable.

 

And I think looking at those first rounders as any kind of help in the next two years is just extremely wishful thinking. I do wonder what the rate of 1st rounders after pick 6 plays in the NHL within a year of their draft..prolly less than 10%.

You and I are inhabiting two different universes. What you see is not what I see; what I see is not what you see. How you can not acknowledge the significant improvement from this year's team compared to last year's team is very mystifying. Last year's team was a hollow team that deserved it's bottom ranking. The Sabres were in a season long hunt for the first pick in the draft because we were more comparable to an average AHL than a below average NHL team. 

 

Although I consider this team much better than last year's team this team is far from being a complete team. Our defensive corps is dramatically better with the addition of Dahlin, a healthy Bogo and McCabe and the addition of Pilut. Our goaltending has been consistently solid all year long. That is an upgrade from the erratic play of Lehner. With the addition of Skinner to the Jack line with Reinhart we have an authentic first line. But our second line has not reached a legitimate second line status. The primary reason is that we traded ROR, a second line center, for in reality future considerations. I believe that Mittelstadt and Tage and Nylander will be second line players but not right now. The brain trust for this franchise prefers investing/developing for the future rather than seek more immediate relief. 

 

What I have seen from this team is that it plays consistently hard. But they have fallen short for the simple reason that they aren't good enough right now. They simply don't have enough talent on the roster right now. You may believe that there are some miraculous trade deals that will elevate this team but I don't see those deals materializing on the horizon.

 

As I have frequently stated I believe that the Sabres will be in a wild-card contention right up to the end of the season. But it is not a guaranteed outcome mainly because we don't have enough talent to separate us from the other contending teams. Where you and I diverge is that I don't believe this team as currently constituted has as much talent as you believes it has. 

 

Botterill has been steadfast and explicit in his numerous proclamations on this issue that he is not looking for short term solutions.  He has stated that he believes very much in developing the young guys, and is willing to be patient. You disagree with the Botterill big picture perspective while I strongly agree with it. 

 

As far as your non-sequitur point and comparison between Tyrod and EJ you have me stumped. 

[plenzmd1]

^^^^  @JohnC , I do not agree they will stay in wildcard contention..outside of a 10 game win streak this team could damn well be in contention for Hughes, and soon. This team, and the fan base needs to have some positive things happen. They need to take advantage of the unbelievable good fortune of that win streak and do everything in their power to make the playoffs this year..they owe that to the ticket buying base that has been subject to uncompetitive hockey for the previous 6 years, and we are well our way to that same thing happening now. 

 

I don't believe your outlook would be so rosy on the prospects of the team WITHOUT that ten game streak. I think you are clouded by those points and those feel good comebacks.?

 

 

heard the same argument early int he 16-17 season..when it was apparent this team was headed nowhere, and i wanted to blow the damn thing up then..and I kept hearing "but last year  they we on a 96 pt pace in the last 40 games. ...give em time..and "don't worry, the coach is fine" and, I am pretty sure,    @4merper4mer  

 and I were  the only ones in here killing GMTM early that year..cause we the smartest!!!!!!

 

Now, I am not saying blow the thing up..but I got no problem being a seller either if the standings warrant it, and I also have no problem with Q coming in here..we are seeing what proven coaches can do with supposedly less talented rosters in Montreal, the Island, and Carolina.

 

 

 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

I could not disagree more on these points. That team last year underperformed so bad  as to be laughable. To then decide the Sabres are having relative success cause that team sucked so bad is just not the right comparison in my view. With that thinking, Bills should have stayed with Tyrod cause he was so much better than EJ.Let's judge against other teams in the NHL, not a historically bad and underachieving Sabre team We are in year two of Bottrel, and to use your words this team is awful outside a " streak where the puck bounced in their favor". They have 15 wins in regulation out of 45 games....that just flat out sucks, especially early in the year. 

 

Remember, the tank team had a similar run of success, but they still sucked. (and you think I cranky now, should have seen when they won like 8 of 10). I am not saying this team sucks, I am saying they are playing poorly, and have been worse than a mediocre team that got lucky for ten games.and at some point, the coach has got to start being held accountable.

 

And I think looking at those first rounders as any kind of help in the next two years is just extremely wishful thinking. I do wonder what the rate of 1st rounders after pick 6 plays in the NHL within a year of their draft..prolly less than 10%.

I'll say it for you; this team does suck when you look at the underlying metrics, with the exception of the Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart line. 

 

We have potential with three young players currently on the roster (Dahlin, Mitts, Thompson), but it's not wise to assume they will suddenly turn it around in the second half of the year as we are 45 games in already. 

 

Larry and Girgs are keepers on the front end for their defensive prowess. 

 

Risto, McCabe, Dahlin, and Pilut are keepers on the blue line, but the latter two are in development and not finished products at this level. Even Risto and McCabe have enough hiccups for me to think that neither one is a true 1st pair D man. 

 

So, we have a top line and nine middle/lower six forwards, two of whom are young and have shown flashes of good talent worth developing (and I commend JBotts for developing them at the NHL level), and four defensemen. 

 

 EVERYBODY ELSE CURRENTLY ON THE ROSTER IS EXPENDABLE. Which means we are woefully thin at best. 

 

Unless this team plays nearly perfectly and the goalies play out of their minds and the Eichel line is on the score sheet, we don't have a decent chance of winning on any particular night. Puck luck, like the kind we saw during the streak helps, but it's not sustainable. And it certainly has a way of evening out as we've seen recently with the three "own" goals we scored for Carolina. 

 

Bottom line: we just aren't good enough and have a LONG way to go given what this team has shown to date. I have faith in JBotts, but little in Housley, to get us there eventually. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by K-9

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I'll say it for you; this team does suck when you look at the underlying metrics, with the exception of the Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart line. 

 

We have potential with three young players currently on the roster (Dahlin, Mitts, Thompson), but it's not wise to assume they will suddenly turn it around in the second half of the year as we are 45 games in already. 

 

Larry and Girgs are keepers on the front end for their defensive prowess. 

 

Risto, McCabe, Dahlin, and Pilut are keepers on the blue line, but the latter two are in development and not finished products at this level. Even Risto and McCabe have enough hiccups for me to think that neither one is a true 1st pair D man. 

 

So, we have a top line and nine middle/lower six forwards, two of whom are young and have shown flashes of good talent worth developing (and I commend JBotts for developing them at the NHL level), and four defensemen. 

 

 EVERYBODY ELSE CURRENTLY ON THE ROSTER IS EXPENDABLE. Which means we are woefully thin at best. 

 

Unless this team plays nearly perfectly and the goalies play out of their minds and the Eichel line is on the score sheet, we don't have a decent chance of winning on any particular night. Puck luck, like the kind we saw during the streak helps, but it's not sustainable. And it certainly has a way of evening out as we've seen recently with the three "own" goals we scored for Carolina. 

 

Bottom line: we just aren't good enough and have a LONG way to go given what this team has shown to date. I have faith in JBotts, but little in Housley, to get us there eventually. 

The players you referenced in your post and the evaluations you made about them are very similar to how I would evaluate them. On the other hand you seem very pessimistic about the future while I take a more positive view. 

 

I want to make the playoffs this year. But I'm not sure it is attainable? Possible? Whereas I see a quantum leap forward from last year others don't see it. I believe in Botterill and his blueprint. Taking a not too distant longer view I am more positive than many here. 

 

With respect to the highlighted segment I absolutely agree that the roster is very thin. I don't understand why anyone who has read my posts would think otherwise.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The players you referenced in your post and the evaluations you made about them are very similar to how I would evaluate them. On the other hand you seem very pessimistic about the future while I take a more positive view. 

 

I want to make the playoffs this year. But I'm not sure it is attainable? Possible? Whereas I see a quantum leap forward from last year others don't see it. I believe in Botterill and his blueprint. Taking a not too distant longer view I am more positive than many here. 

 

With respect to the highlighted segment I absolutely agree that the roster is very thin. I don't understand why anyone who has read my posts would think otherwise.

I'm not so much pessimistic about the future as I am simply realistic about how long it will take to get there. It's not like we have a bevy of All Stars waiting in the wings to take over for the half dozen or so players who aren't cutting it at the moment. I mean realistically,  who is down on the farm that is ready to step in and contribute in a major impacting way? And draft picks take a while to develop unless you land an Eichel, which is rare, requires a bottom place finish, and even then takes the luck of the lottery draw to take. 

 

Anything is possible. Even making the playoffs this year. But we just haven't shown we are a playoff team. And that's all I have to go by at the moment. 

[BringBackFergy]

#lucky bounces.