Peter King on WGR

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

Do not ever underestimate your opponent especially one that that has handed you your jock strap for 20 years. Read The Art of War one day.

 

they havent done it because of savvy management or drafting moves.   Don't confuse Bill the executive GM with Bill the X's and O's guy.   He's an excellent gameplanner with an awesome qb.  Thats it.   Don't need to read the Art of War to know that. 

[4merper4mer]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Ryan Mallet was selected in round 3...

My bad.  I thought second.

[DrDawkinstein]

43 minutes ago, PIZ said:

Couldn't they package their 23rd pick and a player to jump up like the Bills did? 

 

10 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I could see them going with Rudolph at 23 or 31, but none of the others imo.

 

Here is my new triple worst case scenario:

 

Giants stay at #2, shutting us out of the top picks, and take Rosen. Meaning, Darnold/Rosen/Allen all go 1-2-3.

Mayfield goes to Miami at #11, right before us.

At that point, Bills pick a LB and figure we'll get our left-over guy (Rudolph) at #22

Arizona picks Jackson.

We get to pick #19 and Pats trade #23 and #31 to move up ahead of us and take Rudolph.

 

The entire AFC East gets a new QB out of the richest QB draft in the last 30 years, EXCEPT for the Bills.

 

So Billsy it just might happen.

[Chuck Wagon]

19 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

For what it's worth (I usually don't put much stock in his reports, but he seems really confident/in-depth with this one), Manish Mehta is saying that everyone in the top 10 knows that the Patriots want Baker Mayfield.

 

He also says:

The Jets are still divided about who to take at #3

They had Mayfield a tier below Darnold, Rosen, and Allen back when they made the trade up, but that may not be the case anymore

Part of the reason the Jets traded up was out of fear that Buffalo would beat them to the punch

The belief is that the Bills want Josh Allen (which obviously we already knew, but in conjunction with the Jets fear, I would guess that Allen was the leader in the clubhouse at the time of the trade at least)

 

 

It's entirely possible #3 was the only pick available, the Jets recognized it and have beaten us to the punch.

 

 

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Here is my new triple worst case scenario:

 

Giants stay at #2, shutting us out of the top picks, and take Rosen. Meaning, Darnold/Rosen/Allen all go 1-2-3.

Mayfield goes to Miami at #11, right before us.

At that point, Bills pick a LB and figure we'll get our left-over guy (Rudolph) at #22

Arizona picks Jackson.

We get to pick #19 and Pats trade #23 and #31 to move up ahead of us and take Rudolph.

 

The entire AFC East gets a new QB out of the richest QB draft in the last 30 years, EXCEPT for the Bills.

 

So Billsy it just might happen.

 

 

I feel comfortable saying there's no way Baker falls to 11 if QBs go 1-2-3.  Someone (us, Miami, Arizona, ?) will move into the 5-8 range to take him.

 

My worst case scenario:

 

Your QBs 1-2-3, then Denver or trade up from behind us for Baker in the 5-~8 range, then Miami takes Jackson at 11, we freak out and take Rudolph at 12.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Chuck Wagon

[PIZ]

5 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

It's entirely possible #3 was the only pick available, the Jets recognized it and have beaten us to the punch.

 

.........or the Bills knew they had to get to #1 or #2 to guarantee they get 1 of their guys (Darnold or Allen) and didn't want to throw all of their draft picks on # 3, and have no chance to move up to 2.  If they went from 12 to 3, would they still have enough to go to 2 if they wanted?  I think they have a deal in place with the NYG and just need Cleveland to pick.

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

.........or the Bills knew they had to get to #1 or #2 to guarantee they get 1 of their guys (Darnold or Allen) and didn't want to throw all of their draft picks on # 3, and have no chance to move up to 2.  If they went from 12 to 3, would they still have enough to go to 2 if they wanted?  I think they have a deal in place with the NYG and just need Cleveland to pick.

 

 

 

 

So they have a contingent deal with the Giants.

 

What happens if the Giants player is on the board?

 

What happens if Miami or Arizona trades with Denver or Cleveland at 5 / 4 in the next 3 weeks?

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

2 things that make me laugh about the Patriots.

 

1. They lost to Nick Foles in the Super Bowl. LOL!!!!!!

2. They kept Brady over Jimmy G and only traded Jimmy for a 2nd rd pick. LOL!!!!!!!!

Edited April 4, 2018 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[thenorthremembers]

Belichick is going to be 66 years old in a few days.   If Brady plays two more years, that puts him at 68 before someone like Rosen gets a chance to start for them.  I find it hard to believe a close to 70 year old man is worried about the long term future of a team he most likely wont be coaching.  I am also not sure he wants them to be great after he leaves.  Give this, I don't think he is going to burn draft capital to draft someone he may not coach as a starter.

[nedboy7]

12 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

2 things that make me laugh about the Patriots.

 

1. They lost to Nick Foles in the Super Bowl. LOL!!!!!!

2. They kept Brady over Jimmy G and only traded Jimmy for a 2nd rd pick. LOL!!!!!!!!

 

Now make a list of things that make you laugh about the Bills.  LOL!!!!!

[PIZ]

19 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

So they have a contingent deal with the Giants.

 

What happens if the Giants player is on the board?

 

What happens if Miami or Arizona trades with Denver or Cleveland at 5 / 4 in the next 3 weeks?

 

 

 

I'm saying the Giants want to trade down for more picks, and that they don't have a targeted player at 2 that they just have to have and that they have agreed to the Bills offer.  I'm saying it all rides on the player the Bills are targeting; if Cleveland takes the Bills targeted guy at #1, then they go to Plan B.  Not sure what you mean about Miami, Arizona, or Cleveland at 4/5.... I only care about the #2 in my scenario.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said:

Holy **** are we really going to go around in this circle. The point is not the amount to have to give up but what you are willing to give up.

I’m not sure the point is based in reality as much as it is assumption of what you believe took place in talks between the Colts and Bills. The Bills may not have had any intention of moving up to 3 because they don’t want to get bypassed by someone at 2, and were using the talks as leverage with the NYG. Or the Colts may have been asking for as much or more than the nyg to move to 2, so why move to 3. The Bills could have been just trying to drive up the price for the Jets by entering negotiations when they never intended on moving to 3. The point is no one knows if one “made it happen” and the other chose not to and/or the reasons why, so it has no relevance toward whether the Pats can “make it happen” with less ammo. The only thing we know is that 3 was as high as the Jets could go. They never called the nyg, and the Browns aren’t moving off of 1 for what the Jets would be able to offer.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Who cares Patriots don't have more ammo to move up than the Bills so moot point.

 

They have players that could be considered ammo...  

[BuffaninATL]

39 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

2 things that make me laugh about the Patriots.

 

1. They lost to Nick Foles in the Super Bowl. LOL!!!!!!

2. They kept Brady over Jimmy G and only traded Jimmy for a 2nd rd pick. LOL!!!!!!!!

 

LOL !!!  ..... how funny

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

They have players that could be considered ammo...  

As do the Bills 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

The dynasty is over.  

 

They went all in for 2017.  Bc they knew.  They lost Solder Butler and Dion Lewis and their DC.  What the heck is Gronk doing?  Will Edleman be 100 percent?  

 

They chose a 41 year old QB over Jimmy G.  But yea.  They're brilliant.  Everything is easier when you have elite QBs let alone the GOAT.  But it's not going to be easier in 2018. 

 

He can TB12 diet and workout however he wants but to quote Rocky, "time is undefeated."  I think it's over for the BB-Brady era.  But they'll go down swinging.  Not overreach in the first 2 rounds to get McDaniels (he should have went to Indy) a QB for the future.  They'll make the playoffs.  Maybe.  But they aren't going to the SB. 

 

They have lots of holes to fill.  

 

 

Wishful thinking, unfortunately. Till Brady is gone anyway. You can bet they'll be in the top 2 or 3 in the AFC and more likely than any other AFC team to make the Super Bowl. Unfortunately. 

 

Every year we hear how the dynasty is over till, and then it isn't.

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Let's say the Bills spent all those picks including future first to get to 3. Jets could still jump them. Should Beane spend future first to MAYBE get a QB he likes at 3? The pick at 3 didn't offer much certainty of any specific player. Could be 2 QBs gone by then. Anyway, I don't think the Colts were going back to 12.... not yet. 

 

 

Sure, if we'd gone to #3, the Jets might have jumped us. But also, we might have then traded up again from #3 to #2. 

 

The Giants would probably have loved to do that.

 

Going to #3 would have been a very very nice move for us. May have been impossible, though. Hard to know.

[cudi]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

The dynasty is over.  

 

They went all in for 2017.  Bc they knew.  They lost Solder Butler and Dion Lewis and their DC.  What the heck is Gronk doing?  Will Edleman be 100 percent?  

 

They chose a 41 year old QB over Jimmy G.  But yea.  They're brilliant.  Everything is easier when you have elite QBs let alone the GOAT.  But it's not going to be easier in 2018. 

 

He can TB12 diet and workout however he wants but to quote Rocky, "time is undefeated."  I think it's over for the BB-Brady era.  But they'll go down swinging.  Not overreach in the first 2 rounds to get McDaniels (he should have went to Indy) a QB for the future.  They'll make the playoffs.  Maybe.  But they aren't going to the SB. 

 

They have lots of holes to fill.  

Like Jamie Muellers Ghost said "Never underestimate your opponent"  Of all teams too the one that has been dominant for the last 20ish years.  As long as that POS Brady is behind center and that POS BB is coach I will never say they are dead or done.  As much as I hate that team I've grown to accept the fact that until those two are gone the Cheatriots will always be there.  You can point out their holes but somehow they find a way.  I would love to say the dynasty is over but I think we're going to see 1 or 2 more years of it.  I pray that I'm wrong about this though.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Da webster guy said:

they havent done it because of savvy management or drafting moves.   Don't confuse Bill the executive GM with Bill the X's and O's guy.   He's an excellent gameplanner with an awesome qb.  Thats it.   Don't need to read the Art of War to know that. 

 

 

Same guy. Terrific in both roles. Unfortunately.

 

He's managed to keep that team stocked for 17 years now, all while drafting in the late 20s very continuously. 

 

Their drafting has been smart. No, they haven't picked any more successfully than anyone else. But they've consistently arbitraged up in trades and the draft, maximized the number of picks, again by trades but also by consistently maxing out their comp picks. And the more picks you have the better your odds of getting some good players. Which they have done consistently. And which again is much more difficult when you're drafting so late every damn year.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Thurman#1

[billsredneck1]

2 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

I think if Beane were willing to offer up 12 / 22 / 53 / 56 / 65 / 2019 1st we'd have pick #2 right now. They just aren't getting a better offer from anyone than that.

 

So either 1) the pick simply isn't available at this moment or 2) we are holding out for the price to go down.

 

 

there is no way in hell i would give that up....and for who? darnold or rosen? that would be the stupidest thing i've ever seen done in 45 yrs. of watching this team. 1..a usc qb with a turnover hovering 50%...and 2...a guy whose last choice would probably be buffalo. if gettleman tried to fleece beane like that, i'd have to question that relationshp. if the giants were smart, they'd either take barkley for a sb run...or rosen as heir apparent.

[Thurman#1]

51 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Belichick is going to be 66 years old in a few days.   If Brady plays two more years, that puts him at 68 before someone like Rosen gets a chance to start for them.  I find it hard to believe a close to 70 year old man is worried about the long term future of a team he most likely wont be coaching.  I am also not sure he wants them to be great after he leaves.  Give this, I don't think he is going to burn draft capital to draft someone he may not coach as a starter.

 

 

The stories reported were that Belichick wanted to leave them with Garoppolo when Brady retired, which is why he didn't trade him before the season. Wanted to keep him as long as possible. Saw that as a kind of legacy, that people would have thought of Belichick when he was gone but Garoppolo was tearing up the league. I think he's right that people would have thought of Garoppolo being there afterwards as another proof of Belichick's genius.

 

We're lucky there was friction and the owner forced that trade. But there'd be no reason for Brady to get upset at them drafting a guy this year and sitting him for the two or three more years Brady may be in the league.

 

Getting a QB is a very possible move, IMHO, though they do have a lot of needs.

2 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

there is no way in hell i would give that up....and for who? darnold or rosen? that would be the stupidest thing i've ever seen done in 45 yrs. of watching this team. 1..a usc qb with a turnover hovering 50%...and 2...a guy whose last choice would probably be buffalo. if gettleman tried to fleece beane like that, i'd have to question that relationshp. if the giants were smart, they'd either take barkley for a sb run...or rosen as heir apparent.

 

 

If that's the lowest you can get the offer, take it. Darnold and Rosen would be terrific options here if Beane thinks they'd fit and if they weren't gone.