Ten Reasons to Not Get QB Drunk in the Draft

[gobills1212]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't understand your question.

credit for even figuring out it was a question!

The '?' usually gives it away, but with the way the rest of it was i couldnt tell if it was intentional lol

[without a drought]

So you're saying there's a 10% chance we could get Jeff George.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

We stockpile 6 picks out of top 96 and want to trade almost all of them for 56% odds?

On top of that this draft has a deep talent pool that will probably push into the 4th rd. I see our picks being more valuable this year because of the talent of players in it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't understand your question.

 

Apologies, I thought you were taking a side and making an argument based on the assertion of the thread. 

 

Yes, football is a team sport. Good point. 

 

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

On top of that this draft has a deep talent pool that will probably push into the 4th rd. I see our picks being more valuable this year because of the talent of players in it.

and If you then get stuck with a S()*^ QB, none of that talent matters.

 

Im not sure how people are confused by this, or so against it. The Bills have tried every which way possible but the QB for the last 15 Years.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

and If you then get stuck with a S()*^ QB, none of that talent matters.

 

Im not sure how people are confused by this, or so against it. The Bills have tried every which way possible but the QB for the last 15 Years.

 

Because, Buffalo mentality

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

39 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Stafford is a great example... costly to keep but never quite over the hump

 

 

Fine if we insist on recycling  this elementary school stat line: 

 

starting championship QBs- 

 

Picks 1-5 since 1990- 6%

picks 6-32- 11.1%

 

I prefer Super Bowl wins over appearances and probowls thanks. 

It seems to be resonating more than your rebuttal....

[CountDorkula]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Apologies, I thought you were taking a side and making an argument based on the assertion of the thread. 

 

Yes, football is a team sport. Good point. 

 

Find me the 25 highest paid players in this "team" sport, 23 of them play the QB position.

 

IS it, 23 teams have figured this out and the Bills are trying to get into the exclusive club, or the Bills are smarter than the rest of the league?

[Hebert19]

1 hour ago, CountDorkula said:

What about

 

Andrew luck

Carson Wentz

Jared Goff

Matt Ryan

Mahomes

Watson

Trubisky

Winston

Mariota

Newton

Stafford

 

Or do those guys not count since they don't fit your narrative? 

Let's take a deep dive here on the list.  

Luck - pretty good but honestly he hasn't performed near what everyone thought he would.  

Wentz - agree.  He's the real deal. 

Goff - could be foles 2.0.  Was absolutely terrible in one system and good when given the most weapons in the league.  Can't say he's good yet.  

Matt Ryan - agree. 

Mahomes - crazy talk to say he's anything yet. 

Watson - looked good.  But is he another Bradford that can't stay healthy.  Who knows. 

Trubisky - wow.  Not sure he was better than treat Edwards last year to be honest. 

Winston - I wouldn't trade any pick yo get him.  He's horribly inconsistent. 

Mariota - under achieve much?  again.  No picks would be traded for him.  

Newton - agree...but he's not tier 1

Stafford - throws for 5k every year but can't win a playoff game.  

 

Of your list of trade picks in hindsight for 3.  Maybe 4 of them.   

[CountDorkula]

Just now, Hebert19 said:

Let's take a deep dive here on the list.  

Luck - pretty good but honestly he hasn't performed near what everyone thought he would.  

Wentz - agree.  He's the real deal. 

Goff - could be foles 2.0.  Was absolutely terrible in one system and good when given the most weapons in the league.  Can't say he's good yet.  

Matt Ryan - agree. 

Mahomes - crazy talk to say he's anything yet. 

Watson - looked good.  But is he another Bradford that can't stay healthy.  Who knows. 

Trubisky - wow.  Not sure he was better than treat Edwards last year to be honest. 

Winston - I wouldn't trade any pick yo get him.  He's horribly inconsistent. 

Mariota - under achieve much?  again.  No picks would be traded for him.  

Newton - agree...but he's not tier 1

Stafford - throws for 5k every year but can't win a playoff game.  

 

Of your list of trade picks in hindsight for 3.  Maybe 4 of them.   

See above post, 23 highest paid players are QBs.

Soon to be 25 of 25 after Goff and Wentz.

 

Bills outsmarting everyone by not playing a QB or just really late to the party. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

Find me the 25 highest paid players in this "team" sport, 23 of them play the QB position.

 

IS it, 23 teams have figured this out and the Bills are trying to get into the exclusive club, or the Bills are smarter than the rest of the league?

 

I’d say of those 23, some are probably wise to do so because they QBs they have are worth it, raise the level of team play and put butts in seats and some are overpaying for mediocrity just to still put butts in seats. 

 

I think there is a clear tranche of QBs that out earn their performance. 

 

My point is and has always been QB is important but you can’t overpay or overdraft for a guy that is marginally better than what you can find more cost effectively 

[Hebert19]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

See above post, 23 highest paid players are QBs.

Soon to be 25 of 25 after Goff and Wentz.

 

Bills outsmarting everyone by not playing a QB or just really late to the party. 

Never said bills strategy was correct just disputing that most of those bozos would be worth paying the ransom we will have to pay to get someone like them. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

See above post, 23 highest paid players are QBs.

Soon to be 25 of 25 after Goff and Wentz.

 

Bills outsmarting everyone by not playing a QB or just really late to the party. 

Who cares how much they get paid?  So a lot of QBs are grossly overpaid because of their corresponding performance.  Do you not understand it makes the exact opposite argument from what you think?

[CountDorkula]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I’d say of those 23, some are probably wise to do so because they QBs they have are worth it, raise the level of team play and put butts in seats and some are overpaying for mediocrity just to still put butts in seats. 

 

I think there is a clear tranche of QBs that out earn their performance. 

 

My point is and has always been QB is important but you can’t overpay or overdraft for a guy that is marginally better than what you can find more cost effectively 

Taylor was cost effective, how did that work out?

Kyle Orton, Cost effective,

Kevin Kolb, cost Effective,

Ryan Fitzpatrick, cost effective.

 

 

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Who cares how much they get paid?  So a lot of QBs are grossly overpaid because of their corresponding performance.  Do you not understand it makes the exact opposite argument from what you think?

No it makes my argument, every other team is trying to build around QB, but fans here are trying to built 1980s lineman football.

 

Also, who are the grossly overpaid? Weren't you all about Kirk Cousins?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Taylor was cost effective, how did that work out?

Kyle Orton, Cost effective,

Kevin Kolb, cost Effective,

Ryan Fitzpatrick, cost effective.

 

 

Taylor has a better record the last three years than Stafford or Rivers. But that’s not my point. 

 

Flacco was cost effective 

wilson was cost effective 

ben was cost effective 

rodgers was cost effective 

 

When you get into a bidding war & hope to throw picks or money at QB to fix it- it’s not the silver bullet folks make it out to be. 

 

 

[Tenhigh]

2 hours ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

I vote to oust McDermott and appoint Homer Simpson as coach.

 

End of season meeting - "Well, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is; never try."

It's worth thinking about.  He (and Lisa) made a ton of money gambling on football, so he knows the sport.  Also, I believe he had a short stint as owner of the Broncos (from Hank Scorpio), so he has that background as well.

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Taylor was cost effective, how did that work out?

Kyle Orton, Cost effective,

Kevin Kolb, cost Effective,

Ryan Fitzpatrick, cost effective.

 

 

No it makes my argument, every other team is trying to build around QB, but fans here are trying to built 1980s lineman football.

 

Also, who are the grossly overpaid? Weren't you all about Kirk Cousins?

Until  saw he was going to get grossly overpaid.

[CountDorkula]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Until  saw he was going to get grossly overpaid.

SO you want a good QB, but don;t want to pay for one?

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Taylor was cost effective, how did that work out?

Kyle Orton, Cost effective,

Kevin Kolb, cost Effective,

Ryan Fitzpatrick, cost effective.

 

 

No it makes my argument, every other team is trying to build around QB, but fans here are trying to built 1980s lineman football.

 

Also, who are the grossly overpaid? Weren't you all about Kirk Cousins?

Here's another grossly overpaid guy.  Bradford with the cards.  20 million for a guy who is always hurt.

 

Teams don't pay so much because they want to build around a QB.  They pay out of desperation. 

[CountDorkula]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Here's another grossly overpaid guy.  Bradford with the cards.  20 million for a guy who is always hurt.

 

Teams don't pay so much because they want to build around a QB.  They pay out of desperation. 

This makes zero sense, team A desperately tries to find a QB and possibly overpays for one because they may not want to build around him?

[oldmanfan]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

SO you want a good QB, but don;t want to pay for one?

Again, your reading comprehension skills are absurdly poor.  I would not give a guy with a losing record 85 million guaranteed like Cousins.  I was all in on Cousins until I saw that absurd contract.  I would have put him in the top three let's say because I thought he and McD would have been a perfect fit.  But that contract would have completely gutted our team. 

 

And I am all about Beane spending whatever capital he needs to spend IF HE THINKS HE SEES THE GUY HE HAS TO HAVE.  Do you get that now?  If he thinks Rosen is the guy for the next 10-15 years then do whatever.  Throw in picks from next year, throw in Shady. 

Just now, CountDorkula said:

This makes zero sense, team A desperately tries to find a QB and possibly overpays for one because they may not want to build around him?

Do you honestly think that Arizona thinks Bradford is their answer.  Yet they spent 20 million out of desperation.  Hoping he may finally be the guy.  It's foolish.

[SouthNYfan]

41 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Rivers and Stafford are very similar. They don’t seem to lift the team like the greats do and can. 

 

Rivers has done a bit with nothing quite a few years.

His defense tends to be crap, and his receivers' roster kind of rotates a bit year to year.

He's very good.

I would call good career successful.

[maryland-bills-fan]

2 hours ago, GG said:

Top 10 reasons to delay drafting a QB in the 1st round

 

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Levi Brown

Brown, Brown,, Levi Brown,  baddest man in the whole darn town,,,,

 

[Irv]

Do we really want to do this?  Look how that turned out!

 

 

Griffin was widely projected to be the No. 2 pick of the draft, but the St. Louis Rams—the team originally holding the pick—had already selected Sam Bradford to be their long-term starting quarterback with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft. Wanting to stick with Bradford, the Rams decided to deal the pick prior to the draft, with the Cleveland Browns and Washington Redskins perceived as the most interested bidders. After a brief bidding process, the Redskins acquired the pick by giving the Rams four high-value draft picks over three years: their first-round picks in 2012 (No.6 overall), 2013 (No.22 overall), and 2014 (No.2 overall), as well as their second-round pick (No.39 overall) in 2012

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Irv

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Irv said:

Do we really want to do this?  Look how that turned out!

 

 

Griffin was widely projected to be the No. 2 pick of the draft, but the St. Louis Rams—the team originally holding the pick—had already selected Sam Bradford to be their long-term starting quarterback with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft. Wanting to stick with Bradford, the Rams decided to deal the pick prior to the draft, with the Cleveland Browns and Washington Redskins perceived as the most interested bidders. After a brief bidding process, the Redskins acquired the pick by giving the Rams four high-value draft picks over three years: their first-round picks in 2012 (No.6 overall), 2013 (No.22 overall), and 2014 (No.2 overall), as well as their second-round pick (No.39 overall) in 2012

 

But Carson Wentz has a  ring!! ?

[maryland-bills-fan]

26 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Taylor was cost effective, how did that work out?

Kyle Orton, Cost effective,

Kevin Kolb, cost Effective,

Ryan Fitzpatrick, cost effective.

 

 

No it makes my argument, every other team is trying to build around QB, but fans here are trying to built 1980s lineman football.

 

Also, who are the grossly overpaid? Weren't you all about Kirk Cousins?

That is a straw man argument.  Those guys were not very good and didn't bring success. That is not an effective or cost effective method.  If you fail, it is not cost effective, it is money flushed down the toilet.  Remember there are a LOT of high 1st round busts- about 20%.  Somehow you have the magic knowledge that your guy won't.   

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

That is a straw man argument.  Those guys were not very good and didn't bring success. That is not an effective or cost effective method.  If you fail, it is not cost effective, it is money flushed down the toilet.  Remember there are a LOT of high 1st round busts- about 20%.  Somehow you have the magic knowledge that your guy won't.   

That's not the point. If you operate from a point of FEAR of bust, you're automatically failing.

 

Not trying is not an option. SPEND THE FARM.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

That's not the point. If you operate from a point of FEAR of bust, you're automatically failing.

 

Not trying is not an option. SPEND THE FARM.

 

?

 

i demnad better from this front office. You build success you don’t buy it. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

?

 

i demnad better from this front office. You build success you don’t buy it. 

 

 

"better."

 

No what you demand is more of the same.

 

[Batman1876]

7 minutes ago, Irv said:

Do we really want to do this?  Look how that turned out!

 

 

Griffin was widely projected to be the No. 2 pick of the draft, but the St. Louis Rams—the team originally holding the pick—had already selected Sam Bradford to be their long-term starting quarterback with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft. Wanting to stick with Bradford, the Rams decided to deal the pick prior to the draft, with the Cleveland Browns and Washington Redskins perceived as the most interested bidders. After a brief bidding process, the Redskins acquired the pick by giving the Rams four high-value draft picks over three years: their first-round picks in 2012 (No.6 overall), 2013 (No.22 overall), and 2014 (No.2 overall), as well as their second-round pick (No.39 overall) in 2012

The other side however is that getting picks does not mean success. From the RG3 trade the rams got 8 players 5 of those players were selected in the first 65 picks. Of those 8 players one became a reliable starter, Alec Ogletree, he just was traded. None of those 8 players are on the team now. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

 

"better."

 

No what you demand is more of the same.

 

 

Negative - I’ve already lived through gotta draft a first round qb TWICE and TRADING UP to get an overpriced player. 

 

All good on that path

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Negative - I’ve already lived through gotta draft a first round qb TWICE and TRADING UP to get an overpriced player. 

 

All good on that path

 

Then obviously you learned nothing. Waiting for a QB in a QB poor year is how you get manuel. Do you like Manuel?

 

[Batman1876]

10 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

That is a straw man argument.  Those guys were not very good and didn't bring success. That is not an effective or cost effective method.  If you fail, it is not cost effective, it is money flushed down the toilet.  Remember there are a LOT of high 1st round busts- about 20%.  Somehow you have the magic knowledge that your guy won't.   

Lets look at the Browns and the Bills starting QBs for the past 20 years. The Bills have Had 20 and the Browns 30. 1 Of those was a top 5 pick, Tim Couch. He busted the team lost 4 year finding out he wasn't the answer. That's obviously bad. The teams combined however spent 36 years finding out that 49 late 1st round picks, later round picks, trades and free agents wern't the answer, that is far far worse. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Then obviously you learned nothing. Waiting for a QB in a QB poor year is how you get manuel. Do you like Manuel?

 

 

No qb class ends up performing the way it was predicted.   I’d didnt like losman, didn’t like rg3.

 

know who I like ? wilson, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ben, 

 

do your homework, get the guy you can build around without giving up everything you need to build it.  That’s my stance if they choose a different path I’ll be sad at what it means  about the team and the next 3-5 years 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

That's not the point. If you operate from a point of FEAR of bust, you're automatically failing.

 

Not trying is not an option. SPEND THE FARM.

 

Let's say they do and draft Darnold.  And he is terrible.  Can I count on you to be on the board saying it's OK, at least they tried?  Or can I count on you to be calling for everyone's head?  Somehow I suspect I know the answer.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

No qb class ends up performing the way it was predicted.   I’d didnt like losman, didn’t like rg3.

 

know who I like ? wilson, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ben, 

 

do your homework, get the guy you can build around without giving up everything you need to build it.  That’s my stance if they choose a different path I’ll be sad at what it means  about the team and the next 3-5 years 

 

You liked those guys before they were drafted. Right.

 

Take a long look in the mirror, you're promoting mediocrity.

 

 

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Let's say they do and draft Darnold.  And he is terrible.  Can I count on you to be on the board saying it's OK, at least they tried?  Or can I count on you to be calling for everyone's head?  Somehow I suspect I know the answer.

If it works, will you be the one admitting you were wrong or never posting again?, Somehow I suspect I know the answer. 

[Batman1876]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

You liked those guys before they were drafted. Right.

 

Take a long look in the mirror, you're promoting mediocrity.

 

 

So your argument is keep taking the approach we have used for the past 20 years and that is how you avoid mediocrity? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Batman1876 said:

So your argument is keep taking the approach we have used for the past 20 years and that is how you avoid mediocrity? 

 

That's HIS argument.

 

I wanna spend the farm and TRY and solve the QB issue.

 

He wants more of the same.

 

[TPS]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

On top of that this draft has a deep talent pool that will probably push into the 4th rd. I see our picks being more valuable this year because of the talent of players in it.

Yeah, my top 5 reasons for not blowing their wad on moving up, some version of this:

12: Vea/Smith

22: Vander Esch (Ridley If Smith goes at 12)

53: Josh Jackson

56: Goedert (or Harrison if Smith is taken)

65: Ragnow