Magox Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 28 minutes ago, nucci said: They all want a lot of money....don't you? That's not the point. The point is that he believes he's worth more than he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Did we? We got a 2nd round pick and a cornerback that played 59% of the team's defensive snaps, and looks unlikely to be retained. The Rams got a WR1 that played 75% of the team's offensive snaps and lead them in yards/catch, yards/target, and receiving TDs...he also appears to be likely to be retained. We may not have lost the trade, but I don't see how we won it. Now, maybe if the 2nd round pick we got from LA will turn into a great player, and then we can say that we won the trade, but until then, the jury's out. I cant see how we didn’t win the trade. We made the playoffs on the heels of Gaines’ great play opposite Tre. When he played, our D played great for the most part. When he didn’t play, we lost. Consistently. I don’t think there’s a situation, in which you grade a trade, where one team wins and one team loses. Both teams can also win and both teams can also lose. In this situation, both teams won. We certainly won. Gaines was awesome, we made the playoffs on the heels of his great play and we have an extra 2nd rd pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Did we? We got a 2nd round pick and a cornerback that played 59% of the team's defensive snaps, and looks unlikely to be retained. The Rams got a WR1 that played 75% of the team's offensive snaps and lead them in yards/catch, yards/target, and receiving TDs...he also appears to be likely to be retained. We may not have lost the trade, but I don't see how we won it. Now, maybe if the 2nd round pick we got from LA will turn into a great player, and then we can say that we won the trade, but until then, the jury's out. Yeah, we won it. Absolutely. And yeah, it's the 2nd round pick that's the difference. A pick's worth isn't determined by how well it's used. It's determined by what someone would give for it at the time at draft time. Gaines this last year plus a 2nd is absolutely better than Sammy this last year. The stuff about Sammy being selfish is a dust fleck on a molehill, but he still has serious questions about injuries and just about pure production. Not to mention how much he'll cost. Who they pick will be a reflection on how talented and lucky our draft team is, not on how much the pick was worth. Edited March 6, 2018 by Thurman#1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 he will end up on the jets or browns on a short deal i'd bet just to give the rookie a potential big weapon. alshon type deal at 1 or 2 years 10 mil per Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Magox said: The point is that he believes he's worth more than he is. Well, that will be debated in a week or so. His worth is what a team will pay him. I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t get 10+ a year, guessing around 25 mill guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, NewEra said: Well, that will be debated in a week or so. His worth is what a team will pay him. I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t get 10+ a year, guessing around 25 mill guaranteed. My guess is 1-2 years at most with an AAV of $7M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, NewEra said: I cant see how we didn’t win the trade. We made the playoffs on the heels of Gaines’ great play opposite Tre. When he played, our D played great for the most part. When he didn’t play, we lost. Consistently. I don’t think there’s a situation, in which you grade a trade, where one team wins and one team loses. Both teams can also win and both teams can also lose. In this situation, both teams won. We certainly won. Gaines was awesome, we made the playoffs on the heels of his great play and we have an extra 2nd rd pick. Not sure I agree--if we're going to say that both teams benefited from the trade, then fine. The post I quoted reads as though Buffalo won the trade and LA lost, which I believe is incorrect. If we're attributing a playoff performance to one player, in this case Gaines, then the flip side needs to be considered as well: that LA made the playoffs with Watkins after not making it the prior year. Just now, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, we won it. Absolutely. And yeah, it's the 2nd round pick that's the difference. A pick's worth isn't determined by how well it's used. It's determined by what someone would give for it at the time at draft time. Gaines this last year plus a 2nd is absolutely better than Sammy this last year. Who they pick will be a reflection on how talented and lucky our draft team is, not on how much the pick was worth. How did Buffalo win the trade? They had the worst WR corps in the NFL last year, and made the playoffs despite the CB that they traded for missing 41% of the team's snaps. EJ played well when he played, but let's not confuse that with him contributing more to the team's success than Watkins did to LA's success. 3 minutes ago, aristocrat said: he will end up on the jets or browns on a short deal i'd bet just to give the rookie a potential big weapon. alshon type deal at 1 or 2 years 10 mil per Well, I've been saying he'll get a Jeffery type deal for months, and Jeffery's deal was 1-year for $14M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Pay that man his money. Sammy come back. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Not sure I agree--if we're going to say that both teams benefited from the trade, then fine. The post I quoted reads as though Buffalo won the trade and LA lost, which I believe is incorrect. If we're attributing a playoff performance to one player, in this case Gaines, then the flip side needs to be considered as well: that LA made the playoffs with Watkins after not making it the prior year. How did Buffalo win the trade? They had the worst WR corps in the NFL last year, and made the playoffs despite the CB that they traded for missing 41% of the team's snaps. EJ played well when he played, but let's not confuse that with him contributing more to the team's success than Watkins did to LA's success. Well, I've been saying he'll get a Jeffery type deal for months, and Jeffery's deal was 1-year for $14M wow i thought he he signed for 9.5 per? i must have him confused with someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Did we? We got a 2nd round pick and a cornerback that played 59% of the team's defensive snaps, and looks unlikely to be retained. The Rams got a WR1 that played 75% of the team's offensive snaps and lead them in yards/catch, yards/target, and receiving TDs...he also appears to be likely to be retained. We may not have lost the trade, but I don't see how we won it. Now, maybe if the 2nd round pick we got from LA will turn into a great player, and then we can say that we won the trade, but until then, the jury's out. Sorry Bandit, but even if we just looked at Gaines value to this defense last season vs Watkins value to the Rams, it's not even close. This team was markedly better with Gaines on the field whereas Watkins put up lackluster numbers. But even if you want to try to make the case that Watkins was almost as valuable to the Rams as Gaines was to the Bills, which I strongly disagree with, the fact that the Bills got a 2nd rounder makes this a clear KO of a trade for the Bills. Remember the value that everyone thought Watkins was going to be demanding to remain a Bill beyond his option year? We dodged a bullet and I'm glad we got good value out of that trade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 29 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: y’all mad and I’m not get a life and goto work stop worrying about my job because I’m good on this end and forever will be losers most of you just wish to be in this position so continue working y’all little jobs for the rest of y’all lives A very ugly comment. His sense of self is far bigger than the reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, NewEra said: Well, that will be debated in a week or so. His worth is what a team will pay him. I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t get 10+ a year, guessing around 25 mill guaranteed. Last year at this time we were discussing his perceived value to be over 14m+ a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: My guess is 1-2 years at most with an AAV of $7M. We shall find out, 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Not sure I agree--if we're going to say that both teams benefited from the trade, then fine. The post I quoted reads as though Buffalo won the trade and LA lost, which I believe is incorrect. If we're attributing a playoff performance to one player, in this case Gaines, then the flip side needs to be considered as well: that LA made the playoffs with Watkins after not making it the prior year. How did Buffalo win the trade? They had the worst WR corps in the NFL last year, and made the playoffs despite the CB that they traded for missing 41% of the team's snaps. EJ played well when he played, but let's not confuse that with him contributing more to the team's success than Watkins did to LA's success. Well, I've been saying he'll get a Jeffery type deal for months, and Jeffery's deal was 1-year for $14M I agree that the Rams didn’t lose the trade. Worked out very well for them in 2018, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, aristocrat said: wow i thought he he signed for 9.5 per? i must have him confused with someone. http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-bears/report-alshon-jeffery-agrees-one-year-deal-eagles Just now, Magox said: Sorry Bandit, but even if we just looked at Gaines value to this defense last season vs Watkins value to the Rams, it's not even close. This team was markedly better with Gaines on the field whereas Watkins put up lackluster numbers. But even if you want to try to make the case that Watkins was almost as valuable to the Rams as Gaines was to the Bills, which I strongly disagree with, the fact that the Bills got a 2nd rounder makes this a clear KO of a trade for the Bills. Remember the value that everyone thought Watkins was going to be demanding to remain a Bill beyond his option year? We dodged a bullet and I'm glad we got good value out of that trade Not almost as valuable; more valuable. Played WR1 snaps for them, and lead the team in yards per catch, yards per target, and TDs. Contrast that with Gaines, whose team made the playoffs despite him not playing over 40% of the time. Also, one guy's team is trying to re-sign him, while the other guy's team actively went and found his replacement the first time they had a chance. One guy's team finished with the worst position group in the NFL after trading him, while the other guy's position group for his former team hummed along just fine without him. I'd like for someone like yourself--who I believe is measured and intelligent with your comments--to give me some kind of fact-based argument as to why Gaines + 2nd is more valuable. I'm willing to listen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Magox said: Last year at this time we were discussing his perceived value to be over 14m+ a year. Yes we were. Still could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Allen Hurns money on that 2nd deal. Been saying that for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-bears/report-alshon-jeffery-agrees-one-year-deal-eagles Not almost as valuable; more valuable. Played WR1 snaps for them, and lead the team in yards per catch, yards per target, and TDs. Contrast that with Gaines, whose team made the playoffs despite him not playing over 40% of the time. Also, one guy's team is trying to re-sign him, while the other guy's team actively went and found his replacement the first time they had a chance. One guy's team finished with the worst position group in the NFL after trading him, while the other guy's position group for his former team hummed along just fine without him. I'd like for someone like yourself--who I believe is measured and intelligent with your comments--to give me some kind of fact-based argument as to why Gaines + 2nd is more valuable. I'm willing to listen. I will do it, but not today. I'm in bed in Vegas with a hangover typing from my phone. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, Magox said: I will do it, but not today. I'm in bed in Vegas with a hangover typing from my phone. Nice Enjoy your vacation, and I look forward to our exchange in the future. Make the trip to Hash House a Go Go while you're out there--best hangover food ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) I think the Bills will draft a WR relatively high (2nd) and throw an offer sheet at an RFA like Adam Humphries from the Bucs. They would need to seriously overpay for any UFA WR with this QB sitch. Edited March 6, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Not almost as valuable; more valuable. Played WR1 snaps for them, and lead the team in yards per catch, yards per target, and TDs. Contrast that with Gaines, whose team made the playoffs despite him not playing over 40% of the time. Also, one guy's team is trying to re-sign him, while the other guy's team actively went and found his replacement the first time they had a chance. One guy's team finished with the worst position group in the NFL after trading him, while the other guy's position group for his former team hummed along just fine without him. I'd like for someone like yourself--who I believe is measured and intelligent with your comments--to give me some kind of fact-based argument as to why Gaines + 2nd is more valuable. I'm willing to listen. The tough part about the valuation is that, despite taking WR1 snaps and high efficiency, he was still 4th on the team in targets and behind 2 other WRs. He's played ~3.5 years now, and while his efficiency stats have always been good, at some point you have to ask why he doesn't get Brown/Jones/ODB/Hopkins type targets? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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