BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 24 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: If you don’t get it you don’t get it. 20 passing TD’s is below average. 2016 there were 1.4 passing TDs per game = 22.4 per season. 15 and 14 even more. Is it so wrong to want above average???? You continue to make an argument where there isn't one. I suppose it's easier than trying to refute my point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: If you don’t get it you don’t get it. 20 passing TD’s is below average. 2016 there were 1.4 passing TDs per game = 22.4 per season. 15 and 14 even more. Is it so wrong to want above average???? Agreed. Speaking of not getting it, here we have Exhibit A. Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field only fifteen games over two seasons. Half of that was with Watkins playing on a broken foot, but lets set that aside. Over those fifteen games, we had this : A yards per average which would have been tops in the NFL per the 2017 regular season of sixteen games A touchdown total which would have been 8th in the NFL per the 2017 regular season, tied with Kirk Cousins An interception total would have been one of the league's lowest Now, is this a completely accurate yardstick? No, because you'd have to allow for other quarterbacks losing their targets too. But when the Bills put decent receivers on the field with him, he did not perform below average or even average. What he did was well above average. And is it so wrong to want that ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 My argument is he needs (needed) to pass for more TD’s. Balance is king. Shutting down the run was the key to defeating TT. As it had / has been all 3 seasons. Like I said if you don’t get it you don’t get it. I know a few Hokies at work and none of them defend TT a fraction of what you do. One recent grad said Tyrod who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: My argument is he needs (needed) to pass for more TD’s. Balance is king. Shutting down the run was the key to defeating TT. As it had / has been all 3 seasons. Like I said if you don’t get it you don’t get it. I know a few Hokies at work and none of them defend TT a fraction of what you do. One recent grad said Tyrod who? Your argument, in that post, was that he regressed over his 3 years and his best year was 2015. I refuted that by pointing out that the WR Corps got worse in each of his 3 years and his best WR was healthiest in 2015. Do you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, grb said: Funny how Taylor's intelligence was so much higher when the Bills had real NFL talent at wide receiver on the field : The result whenever he had Woods and Watkins playing : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs Wanna process that information? You can take your time......... Good god those numbers are downright Goff like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, grb said: Funny how Taylor's intelligence was so much higher when the Bills had real NFL talent at wide receiver on the field : The result whenever he had Woods and Watkins playing : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs Wanna process that information? You can take your time......... People are going to keep regurgitating this until the end of time apparently and it won’t bring Tyrod back or make him any better. We’ve had one of the league’s worst passing attacks every year with him. Time to move on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Your argument, in that post, was that he regressed over his 3 years and his best year was 2015. I refuted that by pointing out that the WR Corps got worse in each of his 3 years and his best WR was healthiest in 2015. Do you disagree? Honestly imho no. The WR corps were not that much worse. How many people said Woods and Hogan were not good? Once gone, they get praised because they actually have a passing QB. Sammy never lived up tube the hype. Hoe well did he do on his new team? Clay was still Clay, O’Leary was still O’Leary, KB was a big target, Thompson was pretty decent as well. Is this where we blame Zay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Honestly imho no. The WR corps were not that much worse. How many people said Woods and Hogan were not good? Once gone, they get praised because they actually have a passing QB. Sammy never lived up tube the hype. Hoe well did he do on his new team? Clay was still Clay, O’Leary was still O’Leary, KB was a big target, Thompson was pretty decent as well. Is this where we blame Zay? Since you seem to be unclear with the wr corps each year, let me remind you: On 2/7/2018 at 2:55 PM, BuffaloHokie13 said: I don't think I WRs sucked, but I certainly don't think they were good. In general I find the group to be lacking in speed and diversity of skillset. I have a hard time seeing anyone argue that our WR corps didn't get worse every year over the past 3 years. Here they are by snap count (only listing guys who played at least 100 snaps): 2015: Robert Woods (774), Sammy Watkins (715), Chris Hogan (612), Percy Harvin (239) - Goodwin played 30 snaps in 2 games this year 2016: Marquise Goodwin (640), Robert Woods (634), Sammy Watkins - played in 8 games (381), Justin Hunter - played in 12 games (302), Walter Powell (296), Brandon Tate (145) 2017: Zay Jones (792), Jordan Matthews - played in 10 games (508), Deonte Thompson - played in 11 games (474), Andre Holmes (339), Kelvin Benjamin - played in 6 games (220), Brandon Tate (147) So in 2015 you have 3 main guys who were mostly available all season. In 2016 Hogan departs, Goodwin steps in, and Watkins misses half the year allowing more snaps for Hunter, Powell, and Tate. In 2017 your most available WR is a rookie who certainly had growing pains, #2 is a guy brought in during pre-season, but after camp, to replace Watkins production and is only healthy for 10 games, #3 & #5 didn't go through camp with us and were brought in after weeks 5 & 9 respectively. Care to rank them for me? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Since you seem to be unclear with the wr corps each year, let me remind you: Was I unclear? I stated that I thought they were suitable replacements and that the TE’s were also just as good if not better in 17. Those thought to be bad were deemed better once they departed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Was I unclear? I stated that I thought they were suitable replacements and that the TE’s were also just as good if not better in 17. Those thought to be bad were deemed better once they departed. So you won't rank them. Figured as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: So you won't rank them. Figured as much. I’m sorry to have disappointed you by not putting some more thought into it. Was as I supposed to rate them on catches made or passes targeted pre or post TT? Was as I supposed to rate them on separation pre or post TT? Was as I supposed to rate them on TDs caught pre or post TT? Was I supposed to rate them on Red Zone production or between the 20’s pre or post TT? Edited February 14, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I think Tyrods career from here on out will be like Ryan Fitzpatrick's assuming the Bills cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Can we get back to TT to AZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, reddogblitz said: QBs are much harder to find than "better toys". If he can perform with "better toys", why don't we just get some "better toys"? QB problem solved. We're gonna need "better toys", no matter who the QB is btw. Because we will never reach our goal with Tyrod as our QB imo...I think he has proven time and again, that when the game is on the line and within reach, Tyrod just doesn’t have the balls to do what needs to be done to win in this league...and just because people are afraid of the unknown, it isn’t a good enough reason to not go for a franchise QB imo...that’s fine if you want to live in the safe world of mediocrity, but I want more- I need more and I’m tired of “swimming in the shallow end of the pool”. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 26 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: I’m sorry to have disappointed you by not putting some more thought into it. Was as I supposed to rate them on catches made or passes targeted pre or post TT? Was as I supposed to rate them on separation pre or post TT? Was as I supposed to rate them on TDs caught pre or post TT? Was I supposed to rate them on Red Zone production or between the 20’s pre or post TT? If you were a QB, which group would you want most, and which would you want least. This really isn't hard. It must be difficult being so conflicted over such a simple request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Can we get back to TT to AZ? The sooner the better....and by that I mean sending Tyrod to AZ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 4 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: I think if Alex Smith got the return that he did, then Taylor can get at least a 5th. I think he'd be a good bridge player for whatever team drafts Lamar Jackson. Heck, it good be us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: If you were a QB, which group would you want most, and which would you want least. This really isn't hard. It must be difficult being so conflicted over such a simple request. A passing QB or a running QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: A passing QB or a running QB? Well you keep running from the question. Are you going to pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Again. Please stay on topic. This thread is about Arizona’s pursuit of a QB. 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Well you keep running from the question. Are you going to pass? I wish TT would have passed more this past season. Edited February 14, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Again. Please stay on topic. This thread is about Arizona’s pursuit of a QB. I wish TT would have passed more this past season. Responding to your post in this topic is on topic. Keep running... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Well you keep running from the question. Are you going to pass? And this will prove what? If you think demanding he answer your silly question, will make TT a good QB.... zzzzzzzz. He isn't. You lose. Let it go. You will convince no one who understands the game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Hokie. If you followed the thread grb derailed it and I had a response for him. Options at qb are..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, JaCrispy said: Because we will never reach our goal with Tyrod as our QB imo...I think he has proven time and again, that when the game is on the line and within reach, Tyrod just doesn’t have the balls to do what needs to be done to win in this league...and just because people are afraid of the unknown, it isn’t a good enough reason to not go for a franchise QB imo...that’s fine if you want to live in the safe world of mediocrity, but I want more- I need more and I’m tired of “swimming in the shallow end of the pool”. I see your point. You have your opinion which may be right or not. I also want better QB play. We have suffered through much worse and little if any better over the last 18 years. I believe choosing to keep Hotrod or dump him and go for a "franchise QB" is a false choice. We can do both. Edited February 14, 2018 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, reddogblitz said: I see your point. You have your opinion which may be right or not. I also want better QB play. We have suffered through much worse and little if any better over the last 18 years. I believe choosing to dump Hotrod or go for a "franchise QB" is a false choice. We can do both. We wouldn’t be dumping him just to dump him...we would be freeing up a much needed $18 million in cap space, and he has already stated he will not take a pay cut...therefore, the team probably feels the numbers don’t work out for what Tyrod provides- which is how I feel as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: We wouldn’t be dumping him just to dump him...we would be freeing up a much needed $18 million in cap space, and he has already stated he will not take a pay cut...therefore, the team probably feels the numbers don’t work out for what Tyrod provides- which is how I feel as well. QB is the most important position and the last place to look to save money IMHO. I have ZERO desire in stepping back at the position on a wing and a prayer that a rookie might be really good in 3 years. During the drought this might have made sense. No more IMHO. We'll see. We'll know a lot more a week from Friday. Edited February 14, 2018 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I believe choosing to keep Hotrod or dump him and go for a "franchise QB" is a false choice. We can do both. Pay hotrod another 18 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said: Pay hotrod another 18 million. Have fun losing in the eternal quest for the next Peyton Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 6 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Your argument, in that post, was that he regressed over his 3 years and his best year was 2015. I refuted that by pointing out that the WR Corps got worse in each of his 3 years and his best WR was healthiest in 2015. Do you disagree? The #1 sign of a franchise QB is being able to make your wrs better. Tyrod depends on weapons that's the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I wish Terry realized the importance of a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 29 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: The #1 sign of a franchise QB is being able to make your wrs better. Tyrod depends on weapons that's the problem. Perhaps We should get some "weapons". Then Hotrod depending on them won't be a problem, because we have said " weapons". Its a lot easier to find "weapons" than it is finding a QB as you describe. One of the reasons the Rams and Eagles were better this year was because they got their QBs weapons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 11 hours ago, jmc12290 said: Tyrod would break Larry Fitzgerald and end his career. I hope he doesn't end up there. Break Fitzgerald? Ummm... why? I could see an argument that Taylor just wouldn't throw him the ball, but you seem to imply Taylor has a habit of putting his WRs in positions to get injured. Is that what you're saying? If so... it just seems a strange take that flies in the face of reality. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time that you've done that. 7 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Honestly imho no. The WR corps were not that much worse. How many people said Woods and Hogan were not good? Once gone, they get praised because they actually have a passing QB. Sammy never lived up tube the hype. Hoe well did he do on his new team? Clay was still Clay, O’Leary was still O’Leary, KB was a big target, Thompson was pretty decent as well. Is this where we blame Zay? Hey look at my absolutely insane lack of any objectivity everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 6 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Again. Please stay on topic. This thread is about Arizona’s pursuit of a QB. Ladies and gentlemen... hypocrisy at its finest... stay on topic in my own thread even though I'm free to wander any damn way I please in any other thread. "Well, actually, no. This is a general thread and not Transplunts Alternate Truth - Hoyer or Tyrod argument. So I rescind my OOPS" 6 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: If you were a QB, which group would you want most, and which would you want least. This really isn't hard. It must be difficult being so conflicted over such a simple request. The answer is obvious. 2015 was when Taylor had the best weapons... it's a yuuuuge reason that was his best year. 4 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I see your point. You have your opinion which may be right or not. I also want better QB play. We have suffered through much worse and little if any better over the last 18 years. I believe choosing to keep Hotrod or dump him and go for a "franchise QB" is a false choice. We can do both. And I still think this is what's most likely to happen. Man... some people here will just EXPLODE if that happens! 1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: The #1 sign of a franchise QB is being able to make your wrs better. Tyrod depends on weapons that's the problem. Most QBs depend on weapons. Is your definition of a Franchise QB an Elite QB? What a weird statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Ladies and gentlemen... hypocrisy at its finest... stay on topic in my own thread even though I'm free to wander any damn way I please in any other thread. "Well, actually, no. This is a general thread and not Transplunts Alternate Truth - Hoyer or Tyrod argument. So I rescind my OOPS" The answer is obvious. 2015 was when Taylor had the best weapons... it's a yuuuuge reason that was his best year. And I still think this is what's most likely to happen. Man... some people here will just EXPLODE if that happens! Most QBs depend on weapons. Is your definition of a Franchise QB an Elite QB? What a weird statement. Cousins is a franchise QB how good was his weapons last yr? He still put up 4000yds and nearly 30tds . No more excuses for TrashRod . Edited February 14, 2018 by NastyNateSoldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 14 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: I was thinking about potential trade partners for Taylor, and settled on the Cardinals as the most likely, maybe equal to the Broncos. I know people think Taylor is complete trash, but I could see us getting a 5th for him from one ot those teams. Third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 6 hours ago, reddogblitz said: QB is the most important position and the last place to look to save money IMHO. I have ZERO desire in stepping back at the position on a wing and a prayer that a rookie might be really good in 3 years. During the drought this might have made sense. No more IMHO. We'll see. We'll know a lot more a week from Friday. Man, its really amazing how afraid some of you guys sound about trying to upgrade the QB position...well, to each his own, I guess...I just hope our FO doesnt operate out of the same fear, because, to me, trying to upgrade a bottom three passing attack shouldn’t really be making people this hesitant- or at least one would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Break Fitzgerald? Ummm... why? I could see an argument that Taylor just wouldn't throw him the ball, but you seem to imply Taylor has a habit of putting his WRs in positions to get injured. Is that what you're saying? If so... it just seems a strange take that flies in the face of reality. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time that you've done that. Hey look at my absolutely insane lack of any objectivity everyone! Break him mentally. You assume too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 14 hours ago, Bangarang said: People are going to keep regurgitating this until the end of time apparently ...... Guilty as charged, but for a reason: People post deeply stupid lists of all the things Taylor supposedly "can't do" I provide evidence he "did" just fine when the Bills put good receivers on the field with him. It's a simple and clear point, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, grb said: Guilty as charged, but for a reason: People post deeply stupid lists of all the things Taylor supposedly "can't do" I provide evidence he "did" just fine when the Bills put good receivers on the field with him. It's a simple and clear point, isn't it? I love these Tyrod debates. People cherry pick a sample size that proves their point. Then people respond with another cherry picked sample size. Both sides think they’re right and it never ends. The bottom line is that Tyrod was both good and bad but isn’t good enough to commit to long term. He’s a mediocre QB who can help a team be mediocre. It’s the worst spot to be in I think. Edited February 14, 2018 by Bangarang 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 9 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: The #1 sign of a franchise QB is being able to make your wrs better. Tyrod depends on weapons that's the problem. Like what Brady does year after year. 8 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Perhaps We should get some "weapons". Then Hotrod depending on them won't be a problem, because we have said " weapons". Its a lot easier to find "weapons" than it is finding a QB as you describe. One of the reasons the Rams and Eagles were better this year was because they got their QBs weapons. When you start BELOW the league average and lose a WR or 3 and that only diminishes by .15% ..... seriously .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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