RichardLee Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I haven't seen much on the Wall regarding Josh Allen, who - seemingly - could be drafted with a reasonable trade up. While a bit raw for the NFL, he looks impressive with tremendous potential. His natural abilities are phenomenal and his downsides seem coachable to me. He could be developed over a year or two, especially if we landed Alex Smith. What do you college football guys think? Edited January 25, 2018 by RichardLee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 There is plenty of talk about him. I'd be horrified by picking him in the 1st. 3rd round talent in a 1st round body. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfansinceday1 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 It sounds like he is really struggling with his accuracy at the Senior Bowl. I really don't want to bring in a long term project with our 1st round pick. 3rd round...absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Josh Allen is EJ Manuel with a stronger arm imo...no thanks Edited January 25, 2018 by JaCrispy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 If we were already picking in the top 10, I’d love to take him, but I think he’s too risky for me to justify trading up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Billsfansinceday1 said: It sounds like he is really struggling with his accuracy at the Senior Bowl. I really don't want to bring in a long term project with our 1st round pick. 3rd round...absolutely. He was up and down at the beginning like most QBs, but reports are he is getting better each practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I think he sucks. He has great physical tools and that’s really it. His accuracy is really concerning and not something I see ever being fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginiaMike Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I think teams get enamored with a QBs physical skills (arm & legs) and forget to look at the harder to measure skills such and leadership. Josh Allen did not lead his team to anything. Leadership is one of the things I like about Baker Mayfield - it looked like he always believed he could lead his team to success and instilled that in his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, VirginiaMike said: I think teams get enamored with a QBs physical skills (arm & legs) and forget to look at the harder to measure skills such and leadership. Josh Allen did not lead his team to anything. Leadership is one of the things I like about Baker Mayfield - it looked like he always believed he could lead his team to success and instilled that in his team. Leadership is one thing I don’t think you can knock him on. He was a leader on his team this year and the team immediately fell apart the few games he was injured. Despite his injury, he came back and played in his bowl game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I wouldn't trade up for him. If he falls to one of our picks and the Bills like him, then they should definitely take him there. Don't mess around. It will be interesting to see if a Bills/Colts trade is worked out on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 There are multiple Allen threads in the College Football sub-forum linked at the top of The Stadium Wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, LEBills said: Leadership is one thing I don’t think you can knock him on. He was a leader on his team this year and the team immediately fell apart the few games he was injured. Despite his injury, he came back and played in his bowl game. Tebow oozed leadership but it didn't help him throw better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I am coming around on Allen. He really did not have much of a supporting cast (constant pressure, no running game and young wrs). Wyoming is not a great football program and they have actually won 8 games each of the last 2 seasons with Allen as a starter. That might not sound like a lot but Wyoming won only 4-5-4-2 games in the 4 seasons prior to Allen starting. It looks like Allen sometimes tries to do too much and he often has to on an offense lacking talent. There are a lot of big drops from watching his games. Down 21-3 against Iowa, Allen avoids rushes and steps up in pocket throwing a perfect strike 40 yards downfield and his wr bobbles the ball in the endzone before going out of bounds. It was an easy catch and there were a few others. The first TD pass he made in the Central Michigan game was an NFL level throw and had velocity that maybe only Newton and Stafford could match. He regularly shakes off would be tacklers which reminds me of Big Ben. Allen is still raw but he is young and has not been groomed to be a qb since middle school like many other top qbs. Allen's skill set is extremely rare and it perfectly matches Buffalo (Big, strong arm, large hands) and he comes from a small rural area and appears to have an excellent work ethic and attitude. Let him sit for a year and develop while putting in a veteran and maybe we have a top qb in a few years. Full disclosure, I also supported taking EJ Manuel over the rest of the crop of qbs in 2013. He and Glennon were the only two that appeared to have NFL level physical traits and that seems to have been true but that was still not enough to make them good quarterbacks. It obviously, takes more to be a franchise qb than just the physical traits. There are exceptions to the rule but they are outliers for a reason. The odds are not very good for most any of the college qbs becoming a franchise guy, but it becomes much more difficult when a qb has to overcome lack of arm strength, height, weight, hand size, agility, speed etc. Accuracy, anticipation, preparation, mental toughness etc. can overcome some physical limitations but it becomes tougher to do. Allen checks most every physical trait and he appears to be good in the intangibles department. He has work to do with mechanics and accuracy. BUt i do think he is more accurate than the numbers due to his lack of talent at the wr position and poor o-line play. So many times he is running for his life and throwing balls out of bounds or wrs are dropping catchable passes. If he could clean things up and be developed he could be "elite". I don't mind taking a chance on elite skills if the player has the desire to work hard and I think Allen will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) There was word this is the type of QB new Cleveland GM John Dorsey likes. Maybe they trade the 1st pick to someone who wants Rosen or Darnold. Then depending on the draft pick they receive can take him there or at #4. Edited January 25, 2018 by billieve420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 RJ White has the Bills taking allen in his mock draft https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-giants-take-saquon-barkley-as-qbs-become-an-afterthought/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Its a bad sign when a QB has to acknowledge his "accuracy" problems. UGh! Please let the Browns take him 1st overall. Edited January 25, 2018 by KGun12TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 He's terrible. Zero accuracy. Horrible mechanics and footwork. Guys like Allen never succeed in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, racketmaster said: I am coming around on Allen. He really did not have much of a supporting cast (constant pressure, no running game and young wrs). Wyoming is not a great football program and they have actually won 8 games each of the last 2 seasons with Allen as a starter. That might not sound like a lot but Wyoming won only 4-5-4-2 games in the 4 seasons prior to Allen starting. It looks like Allen sometimes tries to do too much and he often has to on an offense lacking talent. There are a lot of big drops from watching his games. Down 21-3 against Iowa, Allen avoids rushes and steps up in pocket throwing a perfect strike 40 yards downfield and his wr bobbles the ball in the endzone before going out of bounds. It was an easy catch and there were a few others. The first TD pass he made in the Central Michigan game was an NFL level throw and had velocity that maybe only Newton and Stafford could match. He regularly shakes off would be tacklers which reminds me of Big Ben. Allen is still raw but he is young and has not been groomed to be a qb since middle school like many other top qbs. Allen's skill set is extremely rare and it perfectly matches Buffalo (Big, strong arm, large hands) and he comes from a small rural area and appears to have an excellent work ethic and attitude. Let him sit for a year and develop while putting in a veteran and maybe we have a top qb in a few years. Full disclosure, I also supported taking EJ Manuel over the rest of the crop of qbs in 2013. He and Glennon were the only two that appeared to have NFL level physical traits and that seems to have been true but that was still not enough to make them good quarterbacks. It obviously, takes more to be a franchise qb than just the physical traits. There are exceptions to the rule but they are outliers for a reason. The odds are not very good for most any of the college qbs becoming a franchise guy, but it becomes much more difficult when a qb has to overcome lack of arm strength, height, weight, hand size, agility, speed etc. Accuracy, anticipation, preparation, mental toughness etc. can overcome some physical limitations but it becomes tougher to do. Allen checks most every physical trait and he appears to be good in the intangibles department. He has work to do with mechanics and accuracy. BUt i do think he is more accurate than the numbers due to his lack of talent at the wr position and poor o-line play. So many times he is running for his life and throwing balls out of bounds or wrs are dropping catchable passes. If he could clean things up and be developed he could be "elite". I don't mind taking a chance on elite skills if the player has the desire to work hard and I think Allen will. It certainly didn't help EJ that he had no QB coach in his first NFL season. Nor did he have a veteran QB on the roster to learn from and in fact, the only teacher he had was Nathaniel Hackett as his OC was someone who had never been an NFL OC in the past. Not to mention the offensive line the kid started behind was one of the worst in the NFL. I firmly believe that coaching is everything and EJ was put in a situation that was almost imposable for him to achieve good success. As far as Allen goes it's his lack of top accuracy to around 50% and his low TD to INT ratio that worries me. Some scouts love the guy and think he is a top ten pick because of his physical traits and other say he is a 2nd to 3rd round pick because of his inaccuracy. Gonna be interesting to see what everyone says after the senior bowl and combine. Edited January 25, 2018 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Woodman19 said: Tebow oozed leadership but it didn't help him throw better. Didn’t say it did, did I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, jrober38 said: He's terrible. Zero accuracy. Horrible mechanics and footwork. Guys like Allen never succeed in the NFL. Not really true, especially if you think the issue is more footwork related rather than simply not having a sense of how to lead WRs (which is debatable, but seems that the leading theory right now is that if you can fix Allen's footwork, the accuracy will come). Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, Alex Smith, and Cam Newton are four guys that weren't accurate early on but made significant improvements and went on to have pretty good careers. I think we can all agree that Stafford, Cam, and Smith have become above-average QBs, and while Cutler has turned into a meme, he was roughly an above average starter for nearly a decade. And 3 of the 4 don't have the physical tools that Allen does. Allen certainly seems to be the riskiest of the 1st round QBs (assuming teams aren't super worried about Rosen's injury history), but he has incredible potential and it's not unheard of for players to improve their accuracy in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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