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YoloinOhio

Seahawks may embrace a college style offense

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1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Explains the housecleaning. This looks like it might be a trend ... Chicago just hired Mark Helfrich. Perhaps Carroll hires Matt Canada?

 

 

Just saying, but someone here called for that 4 years ago....

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My dream OC was Kliff Kingsbury but he survived.

46 minutes ago, Doc said:

So "the next level" is...college level?

That’s where all of the innovation is being done. Teams didn’t spread the field until a decade ago (or less). That’s all the college influence. RPO’s, moving pockets, tempo, etc... are all the college influence. 

35 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

No I don’t think that’s right.  Plus, Kelly’s offense did work in Philly...

Kelly, the offensive coach, was really good in the NFL. Kelly, the leader and GM, was a disaster.

25 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Numerous articles 

but in today’s news cycle everyone borrows a story to post citing the original. 

And that fad will be as successful as the wild cat.  Dead in 2 or 3 seasons. 

It’s been working in the NFL for a while. That’s what Mariota, Goff, Alex Smith, Watson and some others basically played. The Patriots use a TON of college concepts. Spread the field, play with pace, QB uses their legs and get the ball in playmakers hands in space. 

Edited by Kirby Jackson

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35 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

There are already spread concepts being utilized a lot. I see that only increasing. Nagy/Reid used a mix of WCO and spread in KC with some success. Nagy will utilize Helfrich to incorporate more spread, as Trubisky cane from a pro-style spread O at UNC. 

Chicago has so much potential with trubisky. Find them the right WR's and they're gonna do very well. That conference can't cover speed. They can win it easily if they find a way to run the spread. 

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2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Chicago has so much potential with trubisky. Find them the right WR's and they're gonna do very well. That conference can't cover speed. They can win it easily if they find a way to run the spread. 

 

Just curious why you say that?  The two best corners in the league last year (Slay and Rhodes) are in that division.

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8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Arizona should bring in Tyrod and do the same thing.  With that defense and David Johnson, they’d be really exciting to watch.

 

And good for Carroll thinking outside the box - kinda the opposite of McD hiring Dennison to fit a traditional timing offense to Tyrod...

 

It occurred to me earlier today... maybe it wasn't a case of McD and RD refusing to fit a traditional offense to Tyrod, but of all three agreeing to try and expand Tyrod's skills as a QB. The Bills get to install their desired offense and Tyrod gets a shot at "on the job" training. 

 

Look at it this way, running a very specific "read option" offense limits Taylor's options. So if this worked even a little bit, it would have made Tyrod a more accomplished player and more attractive FA. Or even a permanent answer here in Buffalo. 

 

At least now, he has exposure to a different system and can continue to work on it. Somewhere else. 

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13 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Just curious why you say that?  The two best corners in the league last year (Slay and Rhodes) are in that division.

Spread offenses, if they're run like college spread the ball around and open the field tremendously. They can take the very best corners out of the game entirely and capitalize on the weakest links by default if run correctly

 

I love to hate the spread offense similar to the Carolina Panthers so I pay too much attention to it.

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1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

I've been saying this for a long time, a college system is the best way to utilize a mobile QB that looks to run more than pass.  Look at Watson, used a college system this year and he was extremely successful.  It will be interesting to see if the league moves more that direction.  

 

The issue isn’t getting more production from the QB, the issue is 1. Beating an NFL defense. 2. Keeping your QB healthy. 

 

An NFL defense is much bigger, faster, and stronger than anything in the NFL. 

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Personally, I would not go to the spread until it has some sustained success in the NFL.  People have been saying the spread is coming to the NFL for years, but history has shown if you want to win the Super Bowl it is not the way to go. What kind of offense are the winners in this list running?  How about the losers?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

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Honestly Kansas City was pretty much running the Matt Canada offense this year. All of the RPOs built into the shovel pass and inverted veers is what Canada was doing with Pitt and it's how they beat Clemson. 

 

So I guess the ballsy part is actually hiring the guy rather than just stealing his scheme. 

Edited by MrEpsYtown

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Simplicity is how the Bills offense was so successful for 2 years.

 

They made the opponent defend the entire field.

 

It was an experiment that they should have stuck with.

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2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

No I don’t think that’s right.  Plus, Kelly’s offense did work in Philly...

 

It did in terms of putting up points.... it didn't in the respect that it made a talented defense look awful by putting them on the field too often. 

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5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It did in terms of putting up points.... it didn't in the respect that it made a talented defense look awful by putting them on the field too often. 

 

Disagree that it was a talented defense.

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2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Arizona should bring in Tyrod and do the same thing.  With that defense and David Johnson, they’d be really exciting to watch.

 

And good for Carroll thinking outside the box - kinda the opposite of McD hiring Dennison to fit a traditional timing offense to Tyrod...

Until Tyrod has to throw the ball

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Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Disagree that it was a talented defense.

 

Hmmm. Really? It has looked pretty good the two years since. It was talented. Not a top 5 defense but talented. Chip made them look like clowns. 

 

His scheme put up points... but I am less convinced I would say that it "worked". 

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1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

It occurred to me earlier today... maybe it wasn't a case of McD and RD refusing to fit a traditional offense to Tyrod, but of all three agreeing to try and expand Tyrod's skills as a QB. The Bills get to install their desired offense and Tyrod gets a shot at "on the job" training. 

 

Look at it this way, running a very specific "read option" offense limits Taylor's options. So if this worked even a little bit, it would have made Tyrod a more accomplished player and more attractive FA. Or even a permanent answer here in Buffalo. 

 

At least now, he has exposure to a different system and can continue to work on it. Somewhere else. 

 

Normally your on an agenda when its at QB but thats a dope comment

 

:beer:

1 hour ago, Boyst62 said:

Spread offenses, if they're run like college spread the ball around and open the field tremendously. They can take the very best corners out of the game entirely and capitalize on the weakest links by default if run correctly

 

I love to hate the spread offense similar to the Carolina Panthers so I pay too much attention to it.

 

Using elements of those offenses really helped Watson adapt to the NFL down in Houston and he was putting up 5 TD games. With a good draft and some FA help at OL that team is gonna be fun to watch.

 

 

If he stays healthy and the texans made a deep playoff run with Watson, its gonna turn more nfl heads to fitting offenses to rookie qbs strengths instead of always holding the clipboard and riding pine for a year or two.

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A college type spread may be the way of the future in NFL, however, It would be very smart of anyone trying to implement it to go back and take a look at Chip Kelly offense in Philly that crashed and burned and not try to run that.

 

Some hybrid spread for NFL would be in order with the right QB and a good b/u QB with similar skills as injury risk goes up.

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3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Explains the housecleaning. This looks like it might be a trend ... Chicago just hired Mark Helfrich. Perhaps Carroll hires Matt Canada?

 

 

 

Interesting.  We'll see.  But they'll need to really beef up their D

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52 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

Normally your on an agenda when its at QB but thats a dope comment

 

:beer:

 

Using elements of those offenses really helped Watson adapt to the NFL down in Houston and he was putting up 5 TD games. With a good draft and some FA help at OL that team is gonna be fun to watch.

 

 

If he stays healthy and the texans made a deep playoff run with Watson, its gonna turn more nfl heads to fitting offenses to rookie qbs strengths instead of always holding the clipboard and riding pine for a year or two.

That's the biggest problem with a spread offense. The separation between the average defensive lineman in the NFL is so much greater than that of the college level. And the spread offense needs a particular type of lineman that you generally cannot find in the NFL. Having one that can give you the time to complete those passes and play that ball game is difficult. And any weak link on a spread offense Frontline is going to destroy the system. Which is what Steve Spurrier had an issue with in the NFL. On one hand you need a quick thinking fast moving quarterback like Ryan Fitzpatrick, but on the other hand you need a quarterback who is poised in the pocket and can complete those long passes. The quarterback who would most be fitting for a spread offense might be Matt Ryan. Other than that there are several options with a younger guys and too many question marks surrounding them

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22 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

That's the biggest problem with a spread offense. The separation between the average defensive lineman in the NFL is so much greater than that of the college level. And the spread offense needs a particular type of lineman that you generally cannot find in the NFL. Having one that can give you the time to complete those passes and play that ball game is difficult. And any weak link on a spread offense Frontline is going to destroy the system. Which is what Steve Spurrier had an issue with in the NFL. On one hand you need a quick thinking fast moving quarterback like Ryan Fitzpatrick, but on the other hand you need a quarterback who is poised in the pocket and can complete those long passes. The quarterback who would most be fitting for a spread offense might be Matt Ryan. Other than that there are several options with a younger guys and too many question marks surrounding them

 

This is exactly why I wanted Dennison gone. If you dont have the talent to run a certain scheme its not going to work. So you have to wrap your plan around your talent, Houston did that and yielded results, i can see more coaches add similar wrinkles to ease in rookie QBs that come from those systems, while not fully running a college offense.

Edited by FearLess Price

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4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Arizona should bring in Tyrod and do the same thing.  With that defense and David Johnson, they’d be really exciting to watch.

 

And good for Carroll thinking outside the box - kinda the opposite of McD hiring Dennison to fit a traditional timing offense to Tyrod...

Fitzgerald would go from 100 receptions to 50 guaranteed!

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3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

The issue isn’t getting more production from the QB, the issue is 1. Beating an NFL defense. 2. Keeping your QB healthy. 

 

An NFL defense is much bigger, faster, and stronger than anything in the NFL. 

I'm aware, however, if you expect a mobile QB to be forced into an NFL system that limits their running, they won't be as effective plain and simple.  

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You don't want your ever increasingly expensive QB taking hits in a Spread Option offense like they do in college. It has been shown to be effective for a year or three at a time, see Harbaugh\Kaep and the Niners, but it's not sustainable. 

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58 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I'm aware, however, if you expect a mobile QB to be forced into an NFL system that limits their running, they won't be as effective plain and simple.  

 

I personally believe Wilson has been effective in his time not playing a QB running style. Don't see why u need to change it and expose him to injuries. It's not like he has been bad in other offenses. 

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