Royale with Cheese Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: He absolutely does. I never said he didn't. I said I put a good amount of that blame on the coaching staff. Look at all the games in which the Bills have a lead. They go into conservative and predictable mode which leads to stuffs behind the LOS and 3 and outs. I wanted them to take a QB last year. They didn't. I want them to take one this year but they are going to have to make some strong moves to do so. Which offense has been better? Dennisons or Romans/Lynns. Which offense was tops in scoring? Which offenses isn't? Who are you replacing Tyrod with? You're not answering the question again.... Why did they cut his pay if he was the driving force for all that TD production? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: I didn't say he was the driving force of that TD production... he was a big part of it being the QB. You know this right? I think he was a part of it. I think if he was a big part, they wouldn't have slashed his salary 6-7 months after signing his extension. I actually feel bad for Tyrod. He didn't get to see anything close to what the original contract was. I honestly can't think of another player, especially a QB who signed an extension to only have it slashed a half year later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: To me if you are going to be a run first team in the NFL your first hire should be Greg Roman. He is the best run game designer in the business and it isn't even close in my opinion. But don't hire him as OC. Let him be the guy behind the scenes on the blackboard like he is in Baltimore and get an OC to call his plays. Roman's playbook with Lynn's play calling was dynamic. The thing that the Shanahan, Kubiak, Dennison etc scheme has always done much better than a Roman offense over the years is build a passing game that compliments the run game so that the two are in sync. Roman's passing game is almost unconnected to his run game it appears like two different playbooks at times. Sadly it hasn't worked for Dennison as well here because in order to have that single highly complimentary scheme you need your QB to do some of the things that don't suit Tyrod's skill set. I'm not enamoured with Dennison but I do think he has taken a slightly unfair amount of stick this year. Everyone in the league knows what he runs so don't hire him and then ask him to run something else. I actually think he has swallowed his pride and adjusted the run game as he has gone and the pass game in that Tyrod did more shotgun as the season progressed after a lot of under centre and pistol stuff early on. But I never felt like they were a coordinator and QB match sadly. We know Rico wasn't McDermott's first choice so maybe to an extent his hand was forced when other people went elsewhere. One of the slight downsides of making the playoffs (not complaining) is that some of the hot young offensive coaches I'd have liked to consider if they replace Dennison are already interviewing elsewhere - Sean Ryan the Houston QB Coach has an interview to be OC in Cleveland for example. Good stuff, but I'd add that the mismatch isn't just Tyrod. Shady ain't Arian Foster/Terrell Davis, and he forcing him into such a system seems wrongheaded to me. Wasn't that Chip Kelly's beef with Shady too? If so, it would seem to me that figuring out how to work with a world-class talent should be operative, not remaining wedded to a system. It does, however, sound like you think Dennison adjusted at least a little over the course of the season. Regardless of scheme, he just seems unimaginative to me. The second half results are indicative of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, teef said: no one said it was all tyrods fault scott. you come close to having a noraml conversation, and then you go all scott again. as i've said before, i like tt, but do is really the qb you want to build around? i don't. if you don't think tyrod has some responsibility for the lack of production on offense, then i guess we just see things differently. I pretty much say this. Maybe not 100% his fault, but the overwhelming majority is. His limitations as a passer affects every other aspect of the offense. OC can't use a full play book and is forced into an ultra-conservative game plan because falling behind by two scores at any point is practically an automatic loss. You just don't have the ability to score quickly enough to come back. Forget the two-minute offense. The running game suffers, defense is forced to spend more time on the field, etc, etc, etc. 17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Who are you replacing Tyrod with? Literally anyone after this season is over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Good stuff, but I'd add that the mismatch isn't just Tyrod. Shady ain't Arian Foster/Terrell Davis, and he forcing him into such a system seems wrongheaded to me. Wasn't that Chip Kelly's beef with Shady too? If so, it would seem to me that figuring out how to work with a world-class talent should be operative, not remaining wedded to a system. It does, however, sound like you think Dennison adjusted at least a little over the course of the season. Regardless of scheme, he just seems unimaginative to me. The second half results are indicative of that. Indeed, you are correct. I think the second half issue is also exacerbated as I alluded to above by Dennison's tendency to call the exact same play, personnel grouping and formation numerous times. Unless you have a monster o-line the 3rd and 4th times defences see the same look they are going to get there before the play has much of a chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: He absolutely does. I never said he didn't. I said I put a good amount of that blame on the coaching staff. Look at all the games in which the Bills have a lead. They go into conservative and predictable mode which leads to stuffs behind the LOS and 3 and outs. I wanted them to take a QB last year. They didn't. I want them to take one this year but they are going to have to make some strong moves to do so. Which offense has been better? i don't like the conservative approach either, but again, don't you think this is in large part due to tyrod and his ability? having him at qb just make this team too one dimensional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 TT has been on eof our better QBs in the drought and definitely got us out of our drought by playing his conservative style because he is no gunslinger. But moving forward and attempting to compete for and win a superbowl we will need another QB to step up if TT remains our stop gap. Good chance we find a FA QB and draft a QB IMO. At the very least draft a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Maine-iac said: I've put it all out there for anyone who is looking. We are running like crap in the second half. We are averaging averging damn near 3rd and 9 on the passing downs we are asking Taylor to convert and he is still converting at a top ten rate. That said you aren't going to score if you are running that conservative an offense even if you convert a couple 3rd downs you only went 20 or 30 yards. Taylor's splits are virtually the same ahead or behind 1 to 8 points and first half or second half. What is much much different is the rushing stats. We are much much worse at running the ball in the second half. We don't know if it's the conservative protect the ball play calling or the conservative protect the ball QB. It's all speculation want we won't have an answer to for a very long time if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: I pretty much say this. Maybe not 100% his fault, but the overwhelming majority is. His limitations as a passer affects every other aspect of the offense. OC can't use a full play book and is forced into an ultra-conservative game plan because falling behind by two scores at any point is practically an automatic loss. You just don't have the ability to score quickly enough to come back. Forget the two-minute offense. The running game suffers, defense is forced to spend more time on the field, etc, etc, etc. i agree. it shocks me that people want to build around tyrod in any way. some have even called the staff foolish for not trying to play to his strengths. i don't want taylor's strengths to be the showcase of anything, (other than his ability not to turn the ball over). Just now, ScottLaw said: Literally anyone? Like Peterman? That went well the first time. ? Im all for a better option. Don't think there willl be much available outside of Cousins and maybe Alex Smith in FA. Going with "literally anyone" is about as dumb as it gets. you don't think the bills have the ability to draft someone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: I pretty much say this. Maybe not 100% his fault, but the overwhelming majority is. His limitations as a passer affects every other aspect of the offense. OC can't use a full play book and is forced into an ultra-conservative game plan because falling behind by two scores at any point is practically an automatic loss. You just don't have the ability to score quickly enough to come back. Forget the two-minute offense. The running game suffers, defense is forced to spend more time on the field, etc, etc, etc. Literally anyone after this season is over. oh for christ sake...its posts like this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I think it's McDermotts style. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be conservative with Tyrod considering he never turns the ball over. Time will tell when they bring a new QB in here. i'm sure part of it is, but how do you not be conservative with tyrod? it's not like you're suddenly going to up a great passing attack. that would likely lead to many a three and out. i assume keeping heavy with the run game it to control the ball and clock. it's boring, but it's worked this year when the bills have had the lead. 4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Of course they do. Im not convinced they will considering they passed last year and where they sit this year. Most likely all of the top QB prospects will be gone by the time they pick. I said they need to make a strong move in the draft to grab one. i'd be pretty surprised if the bills don't grab a qb at some point. he may not be one of the top two, but even if the bills wanted to i think they could. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Literally anyone? Like Peterman? That went well the first time. ? Im all for a better option. Don't think there willl be much available outside of Cousins and maybe Alex Smith in FA. Going with "literally anyone" is about as dumb as it gets. Absolutely. If he's terrible, then you move on. If he's even remotely good, you can flip him down the line. He currently presents the possibility of a higher ceiling in the passing game than Tyrod Taylor. Of course, that isn't exactly a very tough standard to beat. The dumbest thing they could do is to continue to run with the QB who has consistently sat in the basement of the league in passing and was deathly allergic to scoring points this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: . They need a top guy. They have the ammuniation for it. I doubt they use it to trade up. Maybe I'm wrong. I think where the two picks are right now the chances of a trade up have increased.... but the chances are now you are trading up for the 3rd or 4th guy not Rosen or Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I think where the two picks are right now the chances of a trade up have increased.... but the chances are now you are trading up for the 3rd or 4th guy not Rosen or Darnold. Mayfield is looking more and more like a really good consolation prize. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) Transplant. I have been patiently waiting. You made this post last night (EST) and I queried about the Red Zone production. Will you break this down for us? 16 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Mayfield is looking more and more like a really good consolation prize. Every day I hear more about him that I dislike. Johnny Manziel light kind of things. his off-field issues at Oklahoma and somewhat of a brash on-field personality Mayfield was arrested in February of 2017 for public intoxication. And while it might be unfair to draw certain comparisons to a fellow former Heisman winner, to be seen downing beer publicly 11 months after that arrest can be considered bad optics. http://www.yardbarker.com/college_football/articles/baker_mayfield_seen_pounding_beer_courtside_at_clippers_game/s1_14810_25367540 I've seen the Johnny Rehab Football love, personally I wouldn't want to see it again. Edited January 3, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Maine-iac said: Acting like the troubles we have had on offense all fall on Taylor is just convenient packaging. I think it's quite simple. The Bills offense isn't very good for a lot of reasons. It could be made better with a variety of changes that include aspects of coaching and personnel. However, if you're going to change one thing to get the biggest impact, it would be changing the QB. A better QB would make the offense a lot better. A worse QB would make it a lot worse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Shaw66 said: I think it's quite simple. The Bills offense isn't very good for a lot of reasons. It could be made better with a variety of changes that include aspects of coaching and personnel. However, if you're going to change one thing to get the biggest impact, it would be changing the QB. A better QB would make the offense a lot better. A worse QB would make it a lot worse. QB has got to be the hardest position in all of sports to find a good one. I wish somehow the NFL didn't have one position that carried so much weight but it is that way and it's our job to find that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I think it's a mistake to term Roman's scheme "inside zone." I don't think it really fits into any box particularly. It is a real hybrid run scheme it has plenty of power run / trap concepts, it mixes that with inside zone with outside zone with zone read.... it has everything in there. Dennison is much more of a classic outside zone scheme with fewer wrinkles. I would need to find the numbers again but with Roman's scheme and Roman's playcalling back in 2015 I seem to remember reading we had a slight bias towards more outside zone. With Roman's scheme but Lynn calling plays in 2016 we ran a lot of inside zone. My personal view on why of those years 2016 was the most productive is that it forces Shady to go north and south more because that is where the lanes tend to be. I think he has always had a tendency when you start him running more horizontal to the line of scrimmage to keep bouncing until he sees a home run opportunity. Often if you just hit the hole that looks like a 3 or 4 yard gain and no more than that you find that suddenly there is grass infront of you. Not to criticise Shady too much... he has been brilliant for us since he got here and I'd hate to think of our offense this year if it was without him but I think the inside zone kind of forces him north and south quicker and he is more effective when he does that and then uses his ability to make the guys at the second level miss in the open field rather than running 10 yards and making 2 guys miss behind the line of scrimmage for a 4 yard gain. My recollection of a post here earlier in the year was that the Bills ran more outside zone in 2016, Inside,noutside,nis there any doubt that Lynn was a more creative OC than Dennison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think it's quite simple. The Bills offense isn't very good for a lot of reasons. It could be made better with a variety of changes that include aspects of coaching and personnel. However, if you're going to change one thing to get the biggest impact, it would be changing the QB. A better QB would make the offense a lot better. A worse QB would make it a lot worse. Theres not much room for it to get a lot worse. We rank 29 of 32. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 What the? Put a halfway decent professional QB on this roster with Shady, Clay, Benjamin, Mathews and even Zay.....and this team would have clinched a playoff spot long before Sunday evening! Guaranteed! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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