‘the Process’ = Fools Gold

[KDIGGZ]

yes you can find talented players outside of the 1st round.  but VERY RARELY will you ever find a QB outside of the 1st round!!!  don't give me the Tom Brady, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott nonsense.  that's like winning the lottery.  the vast majority of good QB's were high 1st round picks.  now we will not get a top QB in a draft year where there are a lot of good QB's because we once against went .500 +-1 game.  the only way will be if we trade away all of the picks we accumulated to move up

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, teef said:

that's the spirit!

Right on Q Teef!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

30 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Has any successful organization ever gotten to that point without having a process they followed?

No they have not!

[Chandler#81]

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Let’s discuss this.

The Process includes drafting players who were 3 or 4 year starters in college, with Captaincy and Conference recognition. Factual, right? 

The Process includes ridding the team of highly compensated prima donnas who -in coach’s mind, lack a gritty work ethic. Factual, right?

The Process includes bringing high-motor jags in to substitute regularly and play ST’s. Factual, right?

 

So, is it just ‘opinion’ that McDermott wouldn’t have wanted Shady McCoy -with his racial tantrums, prima-drama-‘tude and off field disgressions on his team? If you think he would, you’re not understanding ‘the Process’. Is it just ‘opinion’ that McDermott would forsake a trade for Big Ben, given his past promiscuity? The Process says yes to it. The problem with ‘the Process’ is how great players who fit these descriptions dominate games, lead to many victories and they can be found on every contending team. It typically is motivation for their stellar play, Process notwithstanding. 

In short, 53 choir boys enraptured by a Process don’t achieve greatness. History says so.

 

please share your factual information.

 

Simple.  Success in the NFL more than any other sport goes far beyond physical ability.

 

Scheme and opportunity play a huge role.  Many times coaches will see a player and think they can plug him into their scheme but what they ask a player to do in their system isn't what he is good at. Are there similarities in the schemes?  Sure there are but there are a lot of base philosophies that are diametrically opposed to each other in schemes. Or the player might fall out of favor with a new coaching staff. Or he might get injured and passed on the depth chart.

 

Does you corner play man or zone mainly?  Do you want your DT to occupy space and blockers or penetrate?  Do you want your LB's to rush or cover? Do you want your RB's to stay between the tackles or run stretch plays to the outside?  

 

Every position has these things and too often guys are drafted in what are just bad scheme fits. Or they are drafted into one scheme and then the coaches are fired and he is in a different scheme which asks him to do completely different things.  

 

Having a better chance at drafting a good player does not translate as well as it does in other sports to actually drafting a better player.  There are a lot of assumptions you have to make---this player wasn't asked to do this in college...can he do it or not? You may think he can, but what if he can't?  Or players who were 1 year starters...are they really that good or 1 hit wonders?  

 

There is so much uncertainty with how players skills in college translate to the NFL that many times drafting lower helps because you aren't as likely to take a guy with a super high ceiling but a guy that could also be a bust...mid round, you are typically looking at guys you can plug into your lineups that can be solid 10 year type players...and sometimes you strike gold like the Texans did with JJ Watt at 11...Steelers did with Big Ben...etc...

 

Then you start looking at guys who fell out of the first round for whatever reason who play very well and end up being "steals"...guys coming from smaller colleges...how does that translate to better competition?

 

Drafting in the NFL is an inexact science more than any other league and acting like just because you have a high pick means you are going to get a great player is just silliness...you might, but you also might get a bust.

Edited December 18, 2017 by matter2003

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

yes you can find talented players outside of the 1st round.  but VERY RARELY will you ever find a QB outside of the 1st round!!!  don't give me the Tom Brady, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott nonsense.  that's like winning the lottery.  the vast majority of good QB's were high 1st round picks.  now we will not get a top QB in a draft year where there are a lot of good QB's because we once against went .500 +-1 game.  the only way will be if we trade away all of the picks we accumulated to move up

Define vast majority.  Because I can name a number of HOF QBs that weren't.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Sadly, this season will be known more for the disaster it is 3-4 years down the road. The increasing number of excellent college players is slipping dramatically with each meaningless win in a Draft year where we’ve garnered so many high pics at such a great cost. ‘The Process’ is pure Fools Gold. We simply aren’t talented enough to be considered contending, and now we likely won’t be for a few more years either. QB, DE, DL, OL, RB & WR need upgrades and more than a few players played their last Home Game yesterday. Our wins this year were all unnecessarily close and gifted with multiple T/O’s and ridiculously long FG’s. Our losses? No T/Os and blown out of stadiums. 

Even if we somehow receive a holiday miracle to break the 17 year streak for one more hour, we’re in worse shape talent wise than we were before ‘the Process’ started shredding the roster. I’ll go on record as saying we won’t make the playoffs and the result of this tease will negatively impact the team for years to come.

Yeah man yeah!!! They should have all just not tried and forfeited every game.  Try splainin that to a player on the team.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

Define great player.  And if you put guys like Dareus or Sammy in there. Define exactly how they are great.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

 

Dont encourage the addition of new negative nancies. #process #trustit

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Simple.  Success in the NFL more than any other sport goes far beyond physical ability.

 

Scheme and opportunity play a huge role.  Many times coaches will see a player and think they can plug him into their scheme but what they ask a player to do in their system isn't what he is good at. Are there similarities in the schemes?  Sure there are but there are a lot of base philosophies that are diametrically opposed to each other in schemes. Or the player might fall out of favor with a new coaching staff. Or he might get injured and passed on the depth chart.

 

Does you corner play man or zone mainly?  Do you want your DT to occupy space and blockers or penetrate?  Do you want your LB's to rush or cover? Do you want your RB's to stay between the tackles or run stretch plays to the outside?  

 

Every position has these things and too often guys are drafted in what are just bad scheme fits. Or they are drafted into one scheme and then the coaches are fired and he is in a different scheme which asks him to do completely different things.  

 

Having a better chance at drafting a good player does not translate as well as it does in other sports to actually drafting a better player.  There are a lot of assumptions you have to make---this player wasn't asked to do this in college...can he do it or not? You may think he can, but what if he can't?  Or players who were 1 year starters...are they really that good or 1 hit wonders?  

 

There is so much uncertainty with how players skills in college translate to the NFL that many times drafting lower helps because you aren't as likely to take a guy with a super high ceiling but a guy that could also be a bust...mid round, you are typically looking at guys you can plug into your lineups that can be solid 10 year type players...and sometimes you strike gold like the Texans did with JJ Watt at 11...Steelers did with Big Ben...etc...

 

Then you start looking at guys who fell out of the first round for whatever reason who play very well..

 

Drafting in the NFL is an inexact science more than any other league and acting like just because you have a high pick means you are going to get a great player is just sillines...you might, but you also might get a bust.

Great post, m03! I hope you realize I agree. We do know what Defense McD wants to run, but we’re woefully weak at talent for specific positions. Yes, they’ll likely try to address these quickly, but with so many D coordinators with completely different philosophies over a short period of time, we’re left with a hodgepodge of mediocrity. 

I still haven’t figured out what Dennison is trying to do..

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Define great player.  And if you put guys like Dareus or Sammy in there. Define exactly how they are great.

What is this? 20 Questions?

if, like me, you really are an oldmanfan, you don’t need my definition. It’s the same as yours. Great Players who are nationally recognized as game changers.

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I enjoy the banter here. Of course it’s a polarizing topic. The new administration chose to jettison great players, while replacing them with likely one year guys. How many of you think the Ram CB & Eagle WR will be here next year? How many think Glenn, Kyle, Tyrod, Miller, LoAl and even Hughes, Wood, Incognito will be retained? That’s pretty much every Bill with a PB under their belt who hadn’t already been shown the door? I really have no idea what ‘the Process’ means in terms of fielding specific players. I just don’t like the early returns. At all.

 

btw, I’m also trying to show new posters in particular how to write a thread and the importance of staying with it, be it taking shots and barbs or agreeing with others positions. 

Let the barrage continue.

 

I, personally, would like to see every single one of those players gone.

 

The only Bill McD was responsible for leaving, whom I'd have rather they kept, is Dareus.  Everyone else?  Good riddance.  And for that list above, I'd be ecstatic to see them all pack up and go.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Gugny

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

you're an awful negative sort OP.

[1st&ten]

I like that the team is still playing hard, albeit with lesser talent than some contenders. If we draft at 18-24 instead of 8-10 we're still going to get talent, In the past some of the Bills best players were drafted in the 12-25 range. We also have money for free agents next year. As for the QB question I don't have an answer, that's where the new guys will earn their money.

[muppy]

59 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Obviously, you still don’t feel good. Ok, let me help you. How do the hapless Bills make the playoffs?

1.) Beat the Patriots in New England. 

  OK, Plan B;

2.) Beat Miami twice in 3 games, this time at Miami.

  OK, Plan C;

3.) Multiple natural disasters, mass murders of contending teams players, along with plague, infestation and other deadly diseases.

Then, after 1& Done, where you dance in the street anyway because the streak was broken..

 

Draft in the 20’s after likely departures of other current and past PB players..

 

There. Happy Now??

"hapless Bills" a team with a WINNING record and in the playoff hunt is now hapless...I'll take hapless over out of the running any day any season dearie....and u wonder why people think your post is trolling? There u have it  Take a bow.  *rolls my eyes*

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Great post, m03! I hope you realize I agree. We do know what Defense McD wants to run, but we’re woefully weak at talent for specific positions. Yes, they’ll likely try to address these quickly, but with so many D coordinators with completely different philosophies over a short period of time, we’re left with a hodgepodge of mediocrity. 

I still haven’t figured out what Dennison is trying to do..

What is this? 20 Questions?

if, like me, you really are an oldmanfan, you don’t need my definition. It’s the same as yours. Great Players who are nationally recognized as game changers.

I would agree.  And thus you would agree we traded no one like that.

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

you're an awful negative sort OP.

Ha! I’ve been a fan of the team since it was announced the ‘Buffalo Bills’ would be re-established in 1959.

Aside from 3 wonderful years in the mid ‘60’s and an 11 year run of contending, I’ve earned the right to be a grumpy old man!

[QCity]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Sadly, this season will be known more for the disaster it is 3-4 years down the road. The increasing number of excellent college players is slipping dramatically with each meaningless win in a Draft year where we’ve garnered so many high pics at such a great cost. ‘The Process’ is pure Fools Gold. We simply aren’t talented enough to be considered contending, and now we likely won’t be for a few more years either. QB, DE, DL, OL, RB & WR need upgrades and more than a few players played their last Home Game yesterday. Our wins this year were all unnecessarily close and gifted with multiple T/O’s and ridiculously long FG’s. Our losses? No T/Os and blown out of stadiums. 

Even if we somehow receive a holiday miracle to break the 17 year streak for one more hour, we’re in worse shape talent wise than we were before ‘the Process’ started shredding the roster. I’ll go on record as saying we won’t make the playoffs and the result of this tease will negatively impact the team for years to come.

 

We were never going to be contenders this year or next year anyways.

[PABillsfan23]

2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

How has being bad for so long helped the Browns? Oh yeah, that's right, they are still horrible. They have been trying to build that thing for years and still haven't done anything

Being average hasn’t done Buffalo any good either 

[The Now Moment]

What happens if we use those draft picks to find our next franchise QB?  Just wondering.  Will everyone think they are geniuses or still be upset we didn't keep Sammy Watkins and the others?  

[Buffalo03]

9 minutes ago, PABillsfan23 said:

Being average hasn’t done Buffalo any good either 

I feel like it's been more of a problem with Management, front office and coaching the last few seasons as opposed to talent. I think if we would have stuck with Marrone and kept Schwartz we would already be a contender. With McDermott and Beane now, I trust them to build around the right players. I don't think draft position is as important as it was. We should never settle for tanking. We have the longest drought in North American sports. Lets get to the playoffs if we can and build from there

Edited December 18, 2017 by Buffalo03