Cali Mileage Tax

[Dante]

Read about this pilot project a couple years ago. I kidded myself it might fizzle out. Never really believed it would as politicians never give up on a idea that confiscates property. Like how they float this like it's great compared to gas tax at the pump. Wake up dipshites they are never going to remove the fuel tax when they implement this thing. 

 

https://patch.com/california/danville/s/gb77w/california-one-step-closer-to-pay-by-mile-tax?utm_source=alert-breakingnews&utm_medium=email&utm_term=weather&utm_campaign=alert

Edited December 13, 2017 by Dante

[Luka]

Well you can't push solar and electric cars without coming up with a way to keep the revenue flowing. These people have mansions to maintain, private jets to fuel. Think of the politicians Dante.

[westerndecline]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

Well you can't push solar and electric cars without coming up with a way to keep the revenue flowing. These people have mansions to maintain, private jets to fuel. Think of the politicians Dante.

You dont have to push green energy

 

The market will force it because its so cheap

 

My friend installed a solar panel on his roof and created a rain water system for water use.

 

He has no utilties and basically pays for internet and netflix

 

Minimalist lifestyle is going to take over and transform the economy

 

Green energy is a huge part of this along with changing the consumer culture

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

I would embrace a mileage tax as opposed to a sales tax on gasoline but not in addition to.  In California I suspect they're doing it in concert with losing a massive revenue source when they make certain types of fuels or vehicles illegal.

[Luka]

Politicians in California consistently run and get elected on green energy as part of their platform.

 

The implementation of this tax coincides with the desire to remove traditional combustion engines from the roads by 2025.

 

 

 

 

[GG]

Does this cover the spandex mafia?

[/dev/null]

Are Californians taxed per mile only within California?  Or are they charged for miles driven in other states?

 

Are vehicles not registered in California exempt or are the owners sent a bill for miles driven in California?

 

40 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

You dont have to push green energy

 

The market will force it because its so cheap

 

My friend installed a solar panel on his roof and created a rain water system for water use.

 

He has no utilties and basically pays for internet and netflix

 

Minimalist lifestyle is going to take over and transform the economy

 

Green energy is a huge part of this along with changing the consumer culture

 

 

Those talking points you copy and pasted sound like they were written by a 5th grader

[3rdnlng]

45 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

Are Californians taxed per mile only within California?  Or are they charged for miles driven in other states?

 

Are vehicles not registered in California exempt or are the owners sent a bill for miles driven in California?

 

 

Those talking points you copy and pasted sound like they were written by a 5th grader

You sound surprised.

[DC Tom]

24 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

You sound surprised.

 

It is about three grades higher than usual.

[Paulus]

Bill Handle was talking this morning about per tire tax being next, haha. If it can be taxed, California will find a way.

[DC Tom]

9 minutes ago, Paulus said:

Bill Handle was talking this morning about per tire tax being next, haha. If it can be taxed, California will find a way.

 

A per-spark tax on spark plugs...because electricity generation contributes to global warming!

 

Maryland already taxes rain, so I think they've got CA beat in the absurdity department.

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

A per-spark tax on spark plugs...because electricity generation contributes to global warming!

 

Maryland already taxes rain, so I think they've got CA beat in the absurdity department.

Great... Now everybody will be driving diesels to avoid "spark tax."

 

Like you knew diesels don't have spark plugs, right? 

 

Anyway, what's the average mpg that roads and bridges are funded at per mile?  Around 20-25 mpg?  Can the infrastructure sustain higher mpgs?

Edited December 14, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois

[sherpa]

3 hours ago, westerndecline said:

You dont have to push green energy

 

The market will force it because its so cheap

 

My friend installed a solar panel on his roof and created a rain water system for water use.

 

He has no utilties and basically pays for internet and netflix

 

Minimalist lifestyle is going to take over and transform the economy

 

Green energy is a huge part of this along with changing the consumer culture

 

 

Your friend has no women in his life either.

Seriously, there is no way to generate enough electricity from a single solar panel to survive, unless you live like the Unabomber, and he wasn't subscribing to an internet service of Netflix, per your friend's claim.

Surviving on rainwater alone is another very suspicious claim.

Green energy is not "so cheap."

It is heavily subsidized.

 

Getting cheaper, but not nearly competitive with normal utilities.  

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Great... Now everybody will be driving diesels to avoid "spark tax."

 

Like you knew diesels don't have spark plugs, right? 

 

Anyway, what's the average mpg that roads and bridges are funded at per mile?  Around 20-25 mpg?  Can the infrastructure sustain higher mpgs?

 

Diesel?  What is this, Europe?

[westerndecline]

18 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Your friend has no women in his life either.

Seriously, there is no way to generate enough electricity from a single solar panel to survive, unless you live like the Unabomber, and he wasn't subscribing to an internet service of Netflix, per your friend's claim.

Surviving on rainwater alone is another very suspicious claim.

Green energy is not "so cheap."

It is heavily subsidized.

 

Getting cheaper, but not nearly competitive with normal utilities.  

He still has his utilities. His bill is virtually zero

 

 

18 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Your friend has no women in his life either.

Seriously, there is no way to generate enough electricity from a single solar panel to survive, unless you live like the Unabomber, and he wasn't subscribing to an internet service of Netflix, per your friend's claim.

Surviving on rainwater alone is another very suspicious claim.

Green energy is not "so cheap."

It is heavily subsidized.

 

Getting cheaper, but not nearly competitive with normal utilities.  

The initial infrastructure is expensive

 

Solar panels can last for 20 yrs... Need little to no basic maintenance

 

Same with wind

 

 

Once a international green grid is established

 

 

Well bye bye energy companies

[sherpa]

4 hours ago, westerndecline said:

He still has his utilities. His bill is virtually zero

 

 

The initial infrastructure is expensive

 

Solar panels can last for 20 yrs... Need little to no basic maintenance

 

Same with wind

 

 

Once a international green grid is established

 

 

Well bye bye energy companies

 

In the post from you I quoted, you stated "he has no utilities."

 

It is extremely expensive to ever get close to an off the grid solar system, and if he "installed a solar panel," indicating one, he isn't close. Just the components necessary aren't anywhere near making a single solar panel a wise choice.

I and I'm sure many others are quite familiar with the systems, capacities and costs, and it is simply not financially competitive.

Without the high subsidies paid throughout the world, it would be much worse.

In theory, solar panels can last 20 years, but the efficiency of the panels, storage, inverters falls every year, and they have a host of other efficiency issues.

Wind isn't close to practical either.

Using a rain water system for a home is a lot more complicated than it seems as well.

[westerndecline]

4 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

In the post from you I quoted, you stated "he has no utilities."

 

It is extremely expensive to ever get close to an off the grid solar system, and if he "installed a solar panel," indicating one, he isn't close. Just the components necessary aren't anywhere near making a single solar panel a wise choice.

I and I'm sure many others are quite familiar with the systems, capacities and costs, and it is simply not financially competitive.

Without the high subsidies paid throughout the world, it would be much worse.

In theory, solar panels can last 20 years, but the efficiency of the panels, storage, inverters falls every year, and they have a host of other efficiency issues.

Wind isn't close to practical either.

Using a rain water system for a home is a lot more complicated than it seems as well.

Maybe its your ideolgy or whatever but a simple youtube search and basic research by yourself disproves everything u said

 

Theres a massive movement of off grid ppl tht contradict everything you say. If it wasnt way cheaper ppl wouldn't do it....

[sherpa]

My ideology?

Please. Stop.

When I built this house with a garage that faces true south,  I had the garage roof framed in a manner that would support a solar system. It requires additional load capacity. I also had a chase built in to accommodate the wiring and battery system and inverter.

I am extremely aware of how much it costs. To date, it is not competitive.

The average American household consumes about 12 kwh/year.

In my case, the best current estimate I have to be off the grid, which I have no intent of doing-but for arguments sake, is 40 panels and about $38k.

The guy who lives near my church just put a 24 panel array on his roof. It doesn't come close to providing his total electrical need, but does a good bit of it.

I am certain you don't know what is involved, or what it costs.

In absolutely no way is it cost effective-yet.

[Kevbeau]

9 minutes ago, sherpa said:

My ideology?

Please. Stop.

When I built this house with a garage that faces true south,  I had the garage roof framed in a manner that would support a solar system. It requires additional load capacity. I also had a chase built in to accommodate the wiring and battery system and inverter.

I am extremely aware of how much it costs. To date, it is not competitive.

The average American household consumes about 12 kwh/year.

In my case, the best current estimate I have to be off the grid, which I have no intent of doing-but for arguments sake, is 40 panels and about $38k.

The guy who lives near my church just put a 24 panel array on his roof. It doesn't come close to providing his total electrical need, but does a good bit of it.

I am certain you don't know what is involved, or what it costs.

In absolutely no way is it cost effective-yet.

We found the same thing after looking into it. Without going into the details, we would need subsidies to justify the cost. Also it seems utility companies are trying hard to back off their per kw rate that they would credit the homeowner if you're not completely off the grid.

[westerndecline]

56 minutes ago, sherpa said:

My ideology?

Please. Stop.

When I built this house with a garage that faces true south,  I had the garage roof framed in a manner that would support a solar system. It requires additional load capacity. I also had a chase built in to accommodate the wiring and battery system and inverter.

I am extremely aware of how much it costs. To date, it is not competitive.

The average American household consumes about 12 kwh/year.

In my case, the best current estimate I have to be off the grid, which I have no intent of doing-but for arguments sake, is 40 panels and about $38k.

The guy who lives near my church just put a 24 panel array on his roof. It doesn't come close to providing his total electrical need, but does a good bit of it.

I am certain you don't know what is involved, or what it costs.

In absolutely no way is it cost effective-yet.

Either youre going nuts with energy use or completely ignorant or dogmatic

 

I am well aware of the cost...

 

Cant wait until you oil corporations are out of business

[3rdnlng]

14 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

Either youre going nuts with energy use or completely ignorant or dogmatic

 

I am well aware of the cost...

 

Cant wait until you oil corporations are out of business

I have to admire your Libertarian bent. (-

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

My ideology?

Please. Stop.

When I built this house with a garage that faces true south,  I had the garage roof framed in a manner that would support a solar system. It requires additional load capacity. I also had a chase built in to accommodate the wiring and battery system and inverter.

I am extremely aware of how much it costs. To date, it is not competitive.

The average American household consumes about 12 kwh/year.

In my case, the best current estimate I have to be off the grid, which I have no intent of doing-but for arguments sake, is 40 panels and about $38k.

The guy who lives near my church just put a 24 panel array on his roof. It doesn't come close to providing his total electrical need, but does a good bit of it.

I am certain you don't know what is involved, or what it costs.

In absolutely no way is it cost effective-yet.

Yeah, them things ain't cheap. That said, when you get a 10k rebate on some of the setups then they get reasonable. But, most people don't have the money, regardless. I mean, I wish I had a Tesla. 

[keepthefaith]

10 hours ago, westerndecline said:

He still has his utilities. His bill is virtually zero

 

 

The initial infrastructure is expensive

 

Solar panels can last for 20 yrs... Need little to no basic maintenance

 

Same with wind

 

 

Once a international green grid is established

 

 

Well bye bye energy companies

 

You obviously haven't looked at forecasted demand for electricity.  It's a pipe dream that we'd go even majority green in most of our lifetimes.  I'm all for more renewable and clean sources of energy, but it ain't there yet cost or supply-wise.  Nothing wrong in my book in building more nuke plants and continuing R&D for better disposal methods of waste from  energy generated from fossil fuels. 

 

As for California, the state needs money to fund its gigantic social costs and to keep Dems in power.  Expect more taxes.

[sherpa]

39 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

Either youre going nuts with energy use or completely ignorant or dogmatic

 

I am well aware of the cost...

 

Cant wait until you oil corporations are out of business

 

I am not "going nuts with energy use." 

I've installed a hot water solar in the house I lived in in California, and have followed the solar voltaic industry for years.

 

I also run the HVAC energy use at our church, remotely, from my house.

I pay attention to this stuff.

I don't think you have any idea about this issue.

It started with your friend installing a solar panel, and has gone down hill from there. 

You are in over your head.



 

 

[westerndecline]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

I am not "going nuts with energy use." 

I've installed a hot water solar in the house I lived in in California, and have followed the solar voltaic industry for years.

 

I also run the HVAC energy use at our church, remotely, from my house.

I pay attention to this stuff.

I don't think you have any idea about this issue.

It started with your friend installing a solar panel, and has gone down hill from there. 

You are in over your head.



 

 

Elaborate on the kwh u use at your home

 

Calculate for one person

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

I am not "going nuts with energy use." 

I've installed a hot water solar in the house I lived in in California, and have followed the solar voltaic industry for years.

 

I also run the HVAC energy use at our church, remotely, from my house.

I pay attention to this stuff.

I don't think you have any idea about this issue.

It started with your friend installing a solar panel, and has gone down hill from there. 

You are in over your head.



 

 

 

So far, the list of things he has any idea about is precisely nothing.

[westerndecline]

49 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

So far, the list of things he has any idea about is precisely nothing.

Ad hominem

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, westerndecline said:

Elaborate on the kwh u use at your home

 

Calculate for one person

 

Its gets more efficient the more people you have, so calculating it for one would make it all the more senseless.

You may not have figured that out, and I'm not going to responsible for your education.

Edited December 14, 2017 by sherpa

[DC Tom]

58 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

Ad hominem

 

Yes, THAT was ad hominem.

 

Use a phrase randomly enough times, and eventually you accudentally use it correctly.

[Greybeard]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:34 PM, DC Tom said:

 

A per-spark tax on spark plugs...because electricity generation contributes to global warming!

 

Maryland already taxes rain, so I think they've got CA beat in the absurdity department.

     How do they manage to tax rain?

[TakeYouToTasker]

24 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

     How do they manage to tax rain?

They tax the square footage of all non-impervious property which causes runoff.  IE pavement, rooftops, etc.

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

They tax the square footage of all non-impervious property which causes runoff.  IE pavement, rooftops, etc.

 

If it's over a certain amount - i.e. if your driveway is 25% of your lot.

 

Theoretically, it funds Chesapeake Bay conservation efforts (because, runoff).  In actuality...yeah, right.

[TakeYouToTasker]

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

If it's over a certain amount - i.e. if your driveway is 25% of your lot.

 

Theoretically, it funds Chesapeake Bay conservation efforts (because, runoff).  In actuality...yeah, right.

Of course it doesn't.  Legislatures never tie their own hands like that.  Everything gets cycled into the general fund, with additional spending mandates added, this way pet projects can be funded, and revenue shortfalls met with additional taxes. 

[3rdnlng]

12 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

If it's over a certain amount - i.e. if your driveway is 25% of your lot.

 

Theoretically, it funds Chesapeake Bay conservation efforts (because, runoff).  In actuality...yeah, right.

Do they not require detention ponds on commercial sites in Maryland?

[DC Tom]

13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Do they not require detention ponds on commercial sites in Maryland?

 

No idea.

It's a residential tax.  

[3rdnlng]

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

No idea.

It's a residential tax.  

I assume that the residents are taxed for storm sewers and the infrastructure to hold or dispense of the water. The commercial sites would have either an above ground detention pond or a below ground tank or series of large pipes to hold water until it can be dispensed. They are being taxed twice.

[DC Tom]

I'm actually taxed for the storm water system, AND for the specific storm drain that runs through my property because the easement for it is paved, which increases my lot's impermeable surface to greater than the threshold, so I have to pay the rain tax.  AND I have to pay to maintain the damn storm drain.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

I'm actually taxed for the storm water system, AND for the specific storm drain that runs through my property because the easement for it is paved, which increases my lot's impermeable surface to greater than the threshold, so I have to pay the rain tax.  AND I have to pay to maintain the damn storm drain.

 

 

that's ****ty

 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, DC Tom said:

I'm actually taxed for the storm water system, AND for the specific storm drain that runs through my property because the easement for it is paved, which increases my lot's impermeable surface to greater than the threshold, so I have to pay the rain tax.  AND I have to pay to maintain the damn storm drain.

 

Thought your wife worked w/ realtors.  How'd you go from a place that was overlooking the Pentagon crash to one where you get to pay extra for  (lack of) drainage?

[DC Tom]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Thought your wife worked w/ realtors.  How'd you go from a place that was overlooking the Pentagon crash to one where you get to pay extra for  (lack of) drainage?

 

We bought before they passed that law.