/dev/null Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, westerndecline said: Your argument is about lifestyle Not whats practical or impossible The bottom line is u can buy a tiny house or rv for way cheaper and with enough common sense and networking avoid lot fees and rent Solar Wood Propane Make your utilties virtually zero The solar can power lights, a laptop, phone and few other things. If you are talking about massive energy consumption of a house Then yes of course its more difficult. But when managed The rent The utilities are virtually non existent. This is why van life is taking off... Wages are going down with inflation Rent and utilities are skyrocketed Nobody is going to pay it Im not paying it. Im buying an rv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 22 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: That's what's great about this country. You can live the RV lifestyle and I can choose a bigger house with lights on all over the place and a big garage full of fossil fuel burning toys. That is until the leftists regain power and change the rules. I have no problem with tht. I agree with u. But dont tell me its impossible to eliminate these crazy rent and utility costs. U just have to be a minimalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, westerndecline said: I have no problem with tht. I agree with u. But dont tell me its impossible to eliminate these crazy rent and utility costs. U just have to be a minimalist I find utilities to be quite a bargain compared to the continual increases in taxes (other than federal taxes), health insurance and all other types of insurance for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: I find utilities to be quite a bargain compared to the continual increases in taxes (other than federal taxes), health insurance and all other types of insurance for that matter. The mandate is eliminated as of tomorrow... U dont have to be forced to buy health ins Research van life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 10:23 PM, Paulus said: If it can be taxed, California will find a way. We'll see. The new Federal Tax Reform is going to kill wealthy blue state people, who have been deducting state taxes, from Federal, thus voting for Ds, without personal consequence, and expecting the rest of the country to pick up their state tax tab, for decades. Democrats know that this is a HUGE political defeat for them. People might piss and moan about Congress/Trump...for a while. But, soon, they will start demanding tax cuts from the notoriously idiotic tax and spend states. Chris Christie got elected on one main promise: capping property tax in NJ, and he did it. Thus, Democrats fear, correctly, that they will ultimately have to spend more resources on keeping what they have in CA, NY, NJ. They will try, and fail, Mondale-style, to convince them that taxes are too low, and should be raised. No, this throws every Blue state into making hard choices. Which is operating as designed: despite their "enlightenment" liberals can't solve this problem, but, they will claim they can: leaving many doors open to Rs. NE already has 6-8 R governors. Ponder that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 8:29 PM, westerndecline said: You dont have to push green energy The market will force it because its so cheap My friend installed a solar panel on his roof and created a rain water system for water use. He has no utilties and basically pays for internet and netflix Minimalist lifestyle is going to take over and transform the economy Green energy is a huge part of this along with changing the consumer culture There are large areas of this country where you can't do that. The Solar Panel will be in play their, but a rain water systems isn't possible for a good 25% of this country at least. 2 hours ago, westerndecline said: The mandate is eliminated as of tomorrow... U dont have to be forced to buy health ins Research van life So when does "van life" disrupt your internet connection, or do you just go from walmart to walmart for free wifi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) If you are telling the truth about buying an RV and becoming a full timer, I cannot more strongly advise you to spend a lot of time reading what others have posted on at least these two forums: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php http://www.irv2.com/forums/ Based on what you have posted here, you don't stand a chance of making informed decisions without a lot of additional education, and I don't say that in a mean spirited way. Based on what you have posted here, I could sell you a cheap skylight and tell you it was a "solar system." Just learning what suits you and is a good value is way beyond what you seem to understand here, and frankly, for a guy who claims to have just wrapped 20 years of active duty but seems to have not thought about life afterwards, I'm not hopeful. Anyway, if you read those forums, you will find out a great deal about the efficacy and expense of solar. Simple things- like they have to be portable because permanent mounted ones will last about 20 miles bolted to a roof that isn't built for that weight going 60 mph with stuff hitting them and being constantly rattled. Portable ones are much less efficient, and ever speaking in terms of one is preposterous. Additionally, most sane people park in shaded areas for obvious reasons. You will also find that most people don't burn wood in an RV. That is a really, really bad idea. If you have 20 amp service, you can use a relatively small space heater that costs about $80. That's what I use, and it works great. And you know what else you don't seem to understand? Wood is not cheap at all, and really stupid to haul it around. That's why nobody does it. RV parks won't let you bring in your own for bug purposes and buying it there is quite expensive. There's always a small amount for camp fires etc. If you stay outside an RV park I doubt you are going to be able to cut it, and burning wet wood is silly. I don't use the thermostatically controlled propane heating system because propane is expensive. The only thing I use my propane system for is heating water or cooking when I need it, but the microwave is usually a better idea. My RV is quite small, and I use it maybe four times a year for three day trips, but I spent a lot of time reading those forums before I did anything, and it is mandatory to do so. You can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble very quickly unless you know what you're doing, and you are grossly uninformed about this issue. You know literally nothing about energy value. If its all about saving money, you couldn't be more off course. Truth be told, based on what you have posted in this thread, if you bought some rig now and marched off into the wild, I would pay big money for the movie rights to that adventure, and pay the burial expenses. If you did something in a permanent location, that would be different, but understand those are usually very undesirable locations and there is zero resale value. Edited December 20, 2017 by sherpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: There are large areas of this country where you can't do that. The Solar Panel will be in play their, but a rain water systems isn't possible for a good 25% of this country at least. So when does "van life" disrupt your internet connection, or do you just go from walmart to walmart for free wifi? Your phone has wifi genius... But if your phone didnt work Library McDonald's Gym Walmart A local bar Any general public area 2 hours ago, sherpa said: If you are telling the truth about buying an RV and becoming a full timer, I cannot more strongly advise you to spend a lot of time reading what others have posted on at least these two forums: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php http://www.irv2.com/forums/ Based on what you have posted here, you don't stand a chance of making informed decisions without a lot of additional education, and I don't say that in a mean spirited way. Based on what you have posted here, I could sell you a cheap skylight and tell you it was a "solar system." Just learning what suits you and is a good value is way beyond what you seem to understand here, and frankly, for a guy who claims to have just wrapped 20 years of active duty but seems to have not thought about life afterwards, I'm not hopeful. Anyway, if you read those forums, you will find out a great deal about the efficacy and expense of solar. Simple things- like they have to be portable because permanent mounted ones will last about 20 miles bolted to a roof that isn't built for that weight going 60 mph with stuff hitting them and being constantly rattled. Portable ones are much less efficient, and ever speaking in terms of one is preposterous. Additionally, most sane people park in shaded areas for obvious reasons. You will also find that most people don't burn wood in an RV. That is a really, really bad idea. If you have 20 amp service, you can use a relatively small space heater that costs about $80. That's what I use, and it works great. And you know what else you don't seem to understand? Wood is not cheap at all, and really stupid to haul it around. That's why nobody does it. RV parks won't let you bring in your own for bug purposes and buying it there is quite expensive. There's always a small amount for camp fires etc. If you stay outside an RV park I doubt you are going to be able to cut it, and burning wet wood is silly. I don't use the thermostatically controlled propane heating system because propane is expensive. The only thing I use my propane system for is heating water or cooking when I need it, but the microwave is usually a better idea. My RV is quite small, and I use it maybe four times a year for three day trips, but I spent a lot of time reading those forums before I did anything, and it is mandatory to do so. You can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble very quickly unless you know what you're doing, and you are grossly uninformed about this issue. You know literally nothing about energy value. If its all about saving money, you couldn't be more off course. Truth be told, based on what you have posted in this thread, if you bought some rig now and marched off into the wild, I would pay big money for the movie rights to that adventure, and pay the burial expenses. If you did something in a permanent location, that would be different, but understand those are usually very undesirable locations and there is zero resale value. Would a suburban or van be better than the rv? I can do all my hygiene at planet fitness For travel and bug out purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 hours ago, sherpa said: If you are telling the truth about buying an RV and becoming a full timer, I cannot more strongly advise you to spend a lot of time reading what others have posted on at least these two forums: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php http://www.irv2.com/forums/ Based on what you have posted here, you don't stand a chance of making informed decisions without a lot of additional education, and I don't say that in a mean spirited way. Based on what you have posted here, I could sell you a cheap skylight and tell you it was a "solar system." Just learning what suits you and is a good value is way beyond what you seem to understand here, and frankly, for a guy who claims to have just wrapped 20 years of active duty but seems to have not thought about life afterwards, I'm not hopeful. Anyway, if you read those forums, you will find out a great deal about the efficacy and expense of solar. Simple things- like they have to be portable because permanent mounted ones will last about 20 miles bolted to a roof that isn't built for that weight going 60 mph with stuff hitting them and being constantly rattled. Portable ones are much less efficient, and ever speaking in terms of one is preposterous. Additionally, most sane people park in shaded areas for obvious reasons. You will also find that most people don't burn wood in an RV. That is a really, really bad idea. If you have 20 amp service, you can use a relatively small space heater that costs about $80. That's what I use, and it works great. And you know what else you don't seem to understand? Wood is not cheap at all, and really stupid to haul it around. That's why nobody does it. RV parks won't let you bring in your own for bug purposes and buying it there is quite expensive. There's always a small amount for camp fires etc. If you stay outside an RV park I doubt you are going to be able to cut it, and burning wet wood is silly. I don't use the thermostatically controlled propane heating system because propane is expensive. The only thing I use my propane system for is heating water or cooking when I need it, but the microwave is usually a better idea. My RV is quite small, and I use it maybe four times a year for three day trips, but I spent a lot of time reading those forums before I did anything, and it is mandatory to do so. You can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble very quickly unless you know what you're doing, and you are grossly uninformed about this issue. You know literally nothing about energy value. If its all about saving money, you couldn't be more off course. Truth be told, based on what you have posted in this thread, if you bought some rig now and marched off into the wild, I would pay big money for the movie rights to that adventure, and pay the burial expenses. If you did something in a permanent location, that would be different, but understand those are usually very undesirable locations and there is zero resale value. So basically this is settled the debate right now what is more cheaper a conventional two or three bedroom house or an RV with a solar panel attached to it that's paid off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 9 hours ago, meazza said: So he doesn’t pay taxes on the land he bought? Please stop You obviously know what i mean.... Property taxes in many areas are extremely low 21 hours ago, /dev/null said: section 8 is subsidized housing Section 8 means ur a nutjob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Listen everyone: the debate is settled. We're moving towards a society in which we'll eschew our hunter/gather roots and stop accumulating things, and will move back towards a nomadic lifestyle where everyone desires to live in their car, essentially homeless. It's settle science, people. Move on! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 9 hours ago, OCinBuffalo said: We'll see. The new Federal Tax Reform is going to kill wealthy blue state people, who have been deducting state taxes, from Federal, thus voting for Ds, without personal consequence, and expecting the rest of the country to pick up their state tax tab, for decades. Democrats know that this is a HUGE political defeat for them. People might piss and moan about Congress/Trump...for a while. But, soon, they will start demanding tax cuts from the notoriously idiotic tax and spend states. Chris Christie got elected on one main promise: capping property tax in NJ, and he did it. Thus, Democrats fear, correctly, that they will ultimately have to spend more resources on keeping what they have in CA, NY, NJ. They will try, and fail, Mondale-style, to convince them that taxes are too low, and should be raised. No, this throws every Blue state into making hard choices. Which is operating as designed: despite their "enlightenment" liberals can't solve this problem, but, they will claim they can: leaving many doors open to Rs. NE already has 6-8 R governors. Ponder that. That's definitely one possibility. Another possibility is a be careful what you wish for for the R's as more of these rich D's flee their own high tax utopias for lower taxed states & end up using their money to help turn those low tax states purple or blue & help turn them into utopias like the ones they just fled. Hoping it's the 1st, but expecting the 2nd is just as likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, /dev/null said: That's where the Government's Green subsidies come into play. It's free because somebody else is paying for it gotta think like a Progressive Reminds me of a meme from the 2016 campaign Put that baby under a window and you've got a "solar system." 3 hours ago, westerndecline said: So basically this is settled the debate right now what is more cheaper a conventional two or three bedroom house or an RV with a solar panel attached to it that's paid off? It would help your cause if you wrote sentences like an educated human. But.... The question about what is "cheaper" was never the issue. The issue is your ridiculous claims, and total ignorance of anything related to this. If you want cheap, just go the full homeless route. By the way. There is another "settled" item in this thread. You may not be able to figure that out, but everyone else has. Edited December 20, 2017 by sherpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Listen everyone: the debate is settled. We're moving towards a society in which we'll eschew our hunter/gather roots and stop accumulating things, and will move back towards a nomadic lifestyle where everyone desires to live in their car, essentially homeless. It's settle science, people. Move on! Its not a debate Limited fossil fuels , exponential growth, and china/india/africa demand will force u to adapt 1 hour ago, sherpa said: Put that baby under a window and you've got a "solar system." It would help your cause if you wrote sentences like an educated human. But.... The question about what is "cheaper" was never the issue. The issue is your ridiculous claims, and total ignorance of anything related to this. If you want cheap, just go the full homeless route. By the way. There is another "settled" item in this thread. You may not be able to figure that out, but everyone else has. So the rv is cheaper? Edited December 20, 2017 by westerndecline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 hours ago, sherpa said: It would help your cause if you wrote sentences like an educated human. No, it wouldn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, westerndecline said: Its not a debate Limited fossil fuels , exponential growth, and china/india/africa demand will force u to adapt So the rv is cheaper? Its all free. Solar.....Free. Wood....Free. Propane....Free. Putting some piece of junk on land you don't own.....Free. I am amazed that someone didn't think about this already. Maybe they wanted to have a life that included others. Fools. 1 hour ago, westerndecline said: Its not a debate Limited fossil fuels , exponential growth, and china/india/africa demand will force u to adapt So the rv is cheaper? In your case, the RV would be fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Imagine the freedom we'll all have when we're completely alone, and without offspring, unencumbered by any possessions we can't fit into a bandana bundle tied to the end of a stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 7 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Listen everyone: the debate is settled. We're moving towards a society in which we'll eschew our hunter/gather roots and stop accumulating things, and will move back towards a nomadic lifestyle where everyone desires to live in their car, essentially homeless. It's settle science, people. Move on! Well, it might be settled for you. While all the brainwashed eco drones are living in tents and eating bugs I would like to be moving towards this. The only issue with the place is that I feel that I deserve more than a two-acre lot. I should have a bigger footprint. https://www.redfin.com/CA/Danville/8-Margaret-Ln-94526/home/17166869 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 39 minutes ago, Dante said: Well, it might be settled for you. While all the brainwashed eco drones are living in tents and eating bugs I would like to be moving towards this. The only issue with the place is that I feel that I deserve more than a two-acre lot. I should have a bigger footprint. https://www.redfin.com/CA/Danville/8-Margaret-Ln-94526/home/17166869 I think we have a failure to see sarcasm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 hours ago, sherpa said: Its all free. Solar.....Free. Wood....Free. Propane....Free. Putting some piece of junk on land you don't own.....Free. I am amazed that someone didn't think about this already. Maybe they wanted to have a life that included others. Fools. In your case, the RV would be fatal. Strawman Never said its free Im suprised u r this dense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, westerndecline said: Strawman Never said its free Im suprised u r this dense I suspect everything surprises you. When you get out of high school, things will clear up. Or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, sherpa said: I suspect everything surprises you. When you get out of high school, things will clear up. Or maybe not. So which is cheaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) On 12/20/2017 at 2:13 PM, sherpa said: I think we have a failure to see sarcasm. I know it was. I was just taking it a step beyond that's all Edited December 24, 2017 by Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, westerndecline said: Strawman Never said its free Im suprised u r this dense You specifically said solar energy was free energy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 37 minutes ago, DC Tom said: You specifically said solar energy was free energy. My house is free because I paid off the mortgage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 54 minutes ago, DC Tom said: You specifically said solar energy was free energy. I said once the infrastructure is set up its free. Most solar panels have a 20 yr lifespan.... Its not only free but will last forever. Its the sun. Well in 5 billion yrs it will blow up but u get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 43 minutes ago, westerndecline said: I said once the infrastructure is set up its free. Most solar panels have a 20 yr lifespan.... Its not only free but will last forever. Its the sun. Well in 5 billion yrs it will blow up but u get the point. You do realize that your previous posts still exist, and I can go back and see that you explicitly said "solar energy is free" twice? And in a display of phenomenal stupidity, said you get more free energy from solar the more batteries and converters you purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 46 minutes ago, DC Tom said: You do realize that your previous posts still exist, and I can go back and see that you explicitly said "solar energy is free" twice? And in a display of phenomenal stupidity, said you get more free energy from solar the more batteries and converters you purchase? Can you quote it Sometimes i feel youre just trolling for entertainment Because the things u say dont make sense or are the direct opposite of what ppl mean But yes the suns energy is free And yes combining batteries increases voltage This is why nobody takes u srsly in real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 12 hours ago, westerndecline said: Can you quote it Of course I can. But I shouldn't have to. 12 hours ago, westerndecline said: But yes the suns energy is free Yes, you can lay in it, and warm up. But you specifically said "solar is free." Not "the sun's energy." It's no more free than oil is. 12 hours ago, westerndecline said: And yes combining batteries increases voltage But not for free. And if you're "combining" batteries to increase voltage, you are seriously doing it wrong. 12 hours ago, westerndecline said: This is why nobody takes u srsly in real life You don't know anything about me. And even less about real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Tom solar energy is free once its infrastructure is set up. Thts what i said Yes i do know something about u in real life. U troll ppl on here because ur a sad lonely old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, westerndecline said: Tom solar energy is free once its infrastructure is set up. Thts what i said That would be the definition of "not free." By your definition of "free," a sailboat is free. 5 minutes ago, westerndecline said: Yes i do know something about u in real life. U troll ppl on here because ur a sad lonely old man Please...tell me more about myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 No tom Labor isnt free Finite things are not free Do i need to explain to you what the definition of renewable or abundant is too By your logic i need to tell u that oil is a non renewable resource....wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, westerndecline said: No tom Labor isnt free Finite things are not free Do i need to explain to you what the definition of renewable or abundant is too By your logic i need to tell u that oil is a non renewable resource....wtf Oil's also free. If you ignore capital outlay, like you're doing for solar power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Isn't this about the time he starts talking about hammers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Meanwhile, as we talk about hipster trailer trash the Devil went down to Georgia https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-nuclearpower-vogtle/update-2-georgia-gives-southern-co-go-ahead-to-finish-nuclear-power-project-idUSL1N1OL19I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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