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26CornerBlitz

Andy Benoit: Eagles and Rams Developed Wentz and Goff the Right Way

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The Rams did NOT develop Goff properly.  His rookie season was a disaster and he looked like a complete bust.  The coaching and personnel changes they made this off season benefited him tremendously.  Had they stuck with Fisher, he'd be well on his way to Ryan Leaf status.

 

 

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If we're to be successful we'll have to spend the picks and get the guy your scouts are nuts for. Then once you have your guy, surround him with a much better line than we have now. And pray we can get 1-2 more quality years from Shady. I would have no problem if the Bills have their pick develop and watch for at least 8 games or more.

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3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

sounds like an endorsement for drafting O Line men this spring

LA traded up to get Goff. The next year in free agency they got two starters in Whitworth and Sullivan. My position is consistent with no equivocation: Get your qb first. That is the priority. Then build up the roster by anyway you can i.e. the draft, free agency and trades. It's not easy but it is not complicated.  

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4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

It is FAR EASIER to "develop a QB the right way" when you have competent and wise management who chooses the right coach on top of it.

 

Could you imagine the large amount of talent that has suffered under incompetent organizations? It is a very long list.

 

Goff or Wentz would probably suffer the same fate as Andrew Luck in Indy at best and Alex Smith in San Fran at worst.

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12 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

Getting a QB is THE priority this Off-season, but the Bills will have plenty of FA money to do much, much more....from getting a couple new WRs, Offensive line, new TE, and probably a new RB (not that Shady hasn't been great), while also getting key defensive players to help with field position and getting the Offense back on the field.

 

Let's also keep in mind this is the SECOND season for both of them.....meaning, you can't bail on your young, developing QB after one season. You have to stick him out there, let him learn by throwing INTs, getting hit and getting back up, learning the Offense and for God's sake, keep the same OC. So, Bills - if you're going to change OCs, for the love of God, do it BEFORE you draft your QB of the future and then let him grow and develop. 

Why wasn't it a priority last season? Deshaun Watson was available and they didn't have to trade up and use extra picks

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13 hours ago, klos63 said:

Obviously both QB's are progressing very well and look to have great futures, but these are the #1 and #2 picks, no surprise that they are doing well. I think a big reason is that both players are surrounded by great talent. Strong lines, great running games and excellent receivers makes it much easier for QB's to have early success. I'm not so sure the 'development strategy' is the key or just having a lineup a excellent players at all positions.

This, you surround a young QB with talent and they’ll develop. But place those guys onto Browns and watch them struggle. They also have good coaches. Hopefully we can build around a new QB next year. 

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15 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Look at the offensive systems as well as the supporting casts with good OLs, strong running games, and a nice complement of weapons for each. 

 

 

Look at what both QBs are doing with their excellent play to make the players around them look really good.

 

Last year both guys looked like they might not be franchise guys. Wentz had a terrific start but tailed off and looked like he might've been figured out. Goff looked like he just might not be good enough. 

 

The Eagles had the same OL both years. Agholor, Celek and Ertz both years. Yup, they brought in some new guys, and that surely helped. But most of the people around Wentz were there last year. 

 

Of course, the article is right that they brought him along correctly and brought in good people to support him. But an awful lot of the reason he's playing better and the people around him are too is simply that Wentz got an awful lot better.

 

The Rams brought in two new guys on the line with Whitworth and Sullivan. One guy who'd been a Ram last year took over as starter at RG, Jamon Brown. Gurley looks a ton better this year as the passing offense has improved a ton to take the pressure off him. They brought in Watkins and Woods. Woods looks a lot better with Goff throwing to him than he did previously.  Watkins hasn't. I'd thought if he stayed healthy he was going to be terrific. He hasn't looked better than decent. The new system probably helped a lot, but I'd argue that though the team again did a good job of bringing in guys around him, that as big a difference as that is simply that Goff got a lot better in his second year.

 

I agree that the teams have done a good job supporting them. But a lot of the reason both guys are doing well is that they both improved a great deal. Particularly Wentz. Wentz was in much the same system last year.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Look I've liked Wentz from day 1 and I think he's going to be great eventually, but you can't put him in the same class as Brady and Rodgers...he's not even in the same school district. 

 

 

IMHO he meant he's playing in that same class right now. Which I agree with. Wasn't saying he'd proven he'll have a similar career as those guys.

Edited by Thurman#1

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2 hours ago, nucci said:

Why wasn't it a priority last season? Deshaun Watson was available and they didn't have to trade up and use extra picks

 

But to be fair, Beane and his staff weren't here....and given how quickly Doug et. al. were fired, and I don't think anybody with a brain will disagree, it was mostly McD's draft with Whaley's staff scouting information. So, it's a guess, but I'm guessing the whole idea of trading down and gathering more picks was so the in-coming GM and staff could hand pick their QB of the future, along with McD's input about what he wants as well. 

 

We may disagree, but in my mind it was strategic. And again, we may disagree, but IMHO this has all been strategic....every move, every draft pick acquisition has been leading up to this 2018 Off-season with the intent to finish the dismantling that started last year. Also, it's only 2/3 of a year, but so far there have been some really good signs of life and potential from this Draft class. People will pick on Zay, but for a Rookie WR, it's about as expected - what's truly important is his progress. 

 

At one point in another thread that I'm too lazy to find, I posted some all-time top 10 WR numbers in their Rookie years....it wasn't pretty for the most part. And yes, different era of football, but they're all time greats for a reason. 

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20 hours ago, JohnC said:

Getting the qb is obviously important. But putting your expensive investment in the best possible situation is critical to the success of your  qb and team. Let's look at the Goff situation to illustrate that point. The organization in one offseasond surrounded the qb with added talent and dramatically better coaching compared to his rookie year. Those upgrades certainly contributed to his leap forward in this second year. The Rams added two starting offensive linemen and they significantly added talent to the receiving corps with the addition of Kupp, Woods and Watkins. With the improvement in the OL their running game with Gurley as their prime back took a lot of pressure off of the young qb.  When the tally is added up in what the Rams did in one offseason it was really smart and impressive.

Yep, great offseason for the Rams. I'd argue they threw him out to drown the season before with Jeff Fisher. The GM really had no plan for Goff, didn't set him up for success until he had a chance to rebuild the next offense. If we see our guy in the draft, just go for him, offensive components be darned.

 

Then try to build around him with whatever you have left.

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4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

IMHO he meant he's playing in that same class right now. Which I agree with. Wasn't saying he'd proven he'll have a similar career as those guys.

He's not, is my point. His stats are right there but he doesn't have the same feel for the game those top guys do. He's not as consistently mechanical in his delivery, and his decision making isn't always as sharp. That's not to say he isn't a second-year guy and a tremendous player, and maybe MVP candidate, it's just that he's not at that level yet.

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6 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

David Carr (who I still think can turn it around) was at this point in his career last year to.

 

Derek is who you mean of course.  

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26 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

David [Derek] Carr (who I still think can turn it around) was at this point in his career last year to.

 

 

He's been improving since his rookie season up to his back injury.  Progress all 3 seasons.   

 

Wish that was like that here :unsure:

 

I mixed them up the opposite the other day.  

Edited by ShadyBillsFan

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On 12/7/2017 at 12:39 PM, ShadyBillsFan said:

Kudo's to both.   

 

Unfortunately we won't know who they really are for another few seasons.  

 

Amen.  You gotta give them three or four years of quality play to say they are good or not.

 

Just a few years ago these same experts told us Robert Griffin and Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson will revolutionize the QB position in the NFL due to their success.  Only 1 of the the 3 is still in the NFL.  QB position has not been revolutionized.

On 12/7/2017 at 12:58 PM, ShadyBillsFan said:

I was going to mention RG III but chose not to along with Jay Cutler,  Kyle Orton, Jake Plummer, Tim Tebow all over hyped JAG quarter backs 

 

hmmm all but RGIII played in Denver 

 

 

And they all made the playoffs (AFC Championship for Plummer).  Maybe we just need get a JAG QB and surround him with better OLIne, WRs, run game, and D?

On 12/7/2017 at 1:00 PM, ShadyBillsFan said:

you are talking to a man who has anointed Nate a failure before he took the first snap in LA.   

 

So what's changed?  5 Ints and 1 TD  in 39 passes with 48.7 comp %?

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Behind Goff and McVay, the Rams are this season's comeback story

Quote

In the offseason, Rams general manager Les Snead reupholstered the NFL's 32nd-ranked offense by hiring McVay, landing receivers Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods, drafting the NFL's most productive rookie receiver in Cooper Kupp and strengthening the offensive line by signing Sullivan and tackle Andrew Whitworth. Surrounded by more talent and more assured in his role, Goff has become the first Rams 3,000-yard passer since Sam Bradford while leading the team to a 9-3 record and a one-game lead over Seattle in the NFC West heading into Week 14.

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The more football I watch the more I'm convinced coaches make the players.  Brady at his level it probably wouldn't matter which coordinator came in because he can basically call his own plays, but for most coaches make the player.  Look at Ryan this year compared to last.  Look at Denver's offense with Gase and then Dennison.  Look at ours with Lynn/Roman now Dennison.  There are a handful of coaches that make players better and we need one of those coaches.  Draft a QB early in the draft, develop Peterman, keep Taylor, whatever they decide if they keep Dennison I am going to have low expectations.

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11 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

The more football I watch the more I'm convinced coaches make the players.  Brady at his level it probably wouldn't matter which coordinator came in because he can basically call his own plays, but for most coaches make the player.  Look at Ryan this year compared to last.  Look at Denver's offense with Gase and then Dennison.  Look at ours with Lynn/Roman now Dennison.  There are a handful of coaches that make players better and we need one of those coaches.  Draft a QB early in the draft, develop Peterman, keep Taylor, whatever they decide if they keep Dennison I am going to have low expectations.

It's all about the QB.

 

Good QB play makes everyone else look better.

 

Bad QB play makes everyone else look incompetent. 

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