Dennison and Taylor - Problems back in training camp

[BuffaloBill]

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/09/buffalo-bills-tyrod-taylor-no-excuses-not-use-middle-of-field/

 

Dennison about Tyrod back in August (Bold added for emphasis):

 

“He understands what we want done, it’s just keeping him on the same page, listening to his feet, getting the ball out on time. That’s the biggest thing for me and him working on. He’s bought into it, he knows what he needs to do, he knows that the ball will get out,” Dennison said. “He knows where everybody is, that’s the biggest thing for me, distribution and if you’re to tell him to move on, he has to move on, can’t wait for a route to open up. If it ain’t getting there, something is wrong so he’s got to move on.”

 

It’s no secret that I am not a TT fan.  Those who think this recent move is unfair to him consider that TT has had feedback from Dennison early on about the issues that have plagued him.  Dennison is looking for a timing and spot offense and TT wants to improvise and have people very open.  At the end of the day, TT is not a fit for Dennison’s offense. 

 

The signs for this QB change were written early.  I really think the move with NP is as much about figuring out the path in draft as anything.  Stating the obvious, TT is done in Buffalo.  He is not a fit for the scheme.

[YoloinOhio]

Yep I posted about this as well. Reading the thread from back then is insightful

 

[Buffalo716]

TT has a lot of natural talent. More than a lot of players in the NFL

 

and he has usually seemed like a true professional 

 

but his problem has been the same for years and it's been glaringly obvious to me

 

He doesn't trust his arm/eyes in the pocket and holds on to the ball too long. This leads to unnecessary pressure or him ad libbing and trying to create a play unconventionally.

 

He also would rather take a sack or run out of bounds rather than take a play downfield 

 

This just leads to a whole lot of stangnant offense and a whole bunch of check downs 

 

It's not all on TT but he signed up to be the General and he's going down first

[Wayne Cubed]

I’ve said this in other threads but the Bills had moved on from TT at the end of last season, he was going to be a FA. They only took him back because he took a pay cut but they certainly weren’t begging him to come back.

 

When TT had signed back with the Bills, Dennison had already been hired as OC. The Bills had committed to doing things offensively before TT signed. I think they are committed to the long term so they haven ideas of what they want to do offensively long term. They aren’t going to change them for TT but we’re going to give him every shot to succeed. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/09/buffalo-bills-tyrod-taylor-no-excuses-not-use-middle-of-field/

 

Dennison about Tyrod back in August (Bold added for emphasis):

 

“He understands what we want done, it’s just keeping him on the same page, listening to his feet, getting the ball out on time. That’s the biggest thing for me and him working on. He’s bought into it, he knows what he needs to do, he knows that the ball will get out,” Dennison said. “He knows where everybody is, that’s the biggest thing for me, distribution and if you’re to tell him to move on, he has to move on, can’t wait for a route to open up. If it ain’t getting there, something is wrong so he’s got to move on.”

 

It’s no secret that I am not a TT fan.  Those who think this recent move is unfair to him consider that TT has had feedback from Dennison early on about the issues that have plagued him.  Dennison is looking for a timing and spot offense and TT wants to improvise and have people very open.  At the end of the day, TT is not a fit for Dennison’s offense. 

 

The signs for this QB change were written early.  I really think the move with NP is as much about figuring out the path in draft as anything.  Stating the obvious, TT is done in Buffalo.  He is not a fit for the scheme.

I'm wondering if the Michael Vick comments to Tyrod about being himself might have hurt. It seemed to me that the next game after(Oakland I think). Tyrod was being himself scrambling around and holding the ball and making chunk plays with his arm and legs. He had not been playing that way. Clearly this can work against the right team in the right situation...but is it sustainable. I say no its not. We have seen this roller coaster with him for 40+ games now. When a team is able to crack down on this style and control the line of scrimmage his goose is cooked.

Edited November 17, 2017 by horned dogs

[HappyDays]

Good find, thanks for posting. I think Dennison asked McDermott to make the QB change after seeing that Peterman could do what he needs his QB to do in his system.

[26CornerBlitz]

McDermott had to settle for Dennison as at best his 3rd choice after losing out on Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave.  Not a great play caller or scheme designer from what he's demonstrated thus far.   Let's see if he's any better with a new trigger man behind center. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

TT has a lot of natural talent. More than a lot of players in the NFL

 

and he has usually seemed like a true professional 

 

but his problem has been the same for years and it's been glaringly obvious to me

 

He doesn't trust his arm/eyes in the pocket and holds on to the ball too long. This leads to unnecessary pressure or him ad libbing and trying to create a play unconventionally.

 

He also would rather take a sack or run out of bounds rather than take a play downfield 

 

This just leads to a whole lot of stangnant offense and a whole bunch of check downs 

 

It's not all on TT but he signed up to be the General and he's going down first

 

...certainly understand all of your points 716....BUT.....if his deficiencies are known, most of what you identified are the MENTAL aspects of the game, AND if he is on your roster for 2017, why force the "round peg into the square hole" versus "winning is the ONLY thing" while he's here?......I am highly doubtful of "re-training the brain" after 7 years at the level to overcome those deficiencies, yet Dennison is damn well set on his "vaunted (?) system" which negates TT's mobility quality.......he may have been OC to Kubiak, but Kubiak was the offensive mind...likewise, Marrone was the Saints' OC but Payton was the offensive mind......Dennison to Kubiak and Marrone to Payton were OC empty suits carrying the clipboards IMO....now that Dennison is on his own, he is woefully lacking as far as maximizing the  talent HE HAS TO WORK WITH versus his "system".....TT is here for 2017 and perhaps not in 2018.....but why the hell sacrifice "W's" in 2017 because of silly azz system rigidity?.....think I missed the memo......

[Big Gun]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

McDermott had to settle for Dennison as at best his 3rd choice after losing out on Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave.  Not a great play caller or scheme designer from what he's demonstrated thus far.   Let's see if he's any better with a new trigger man behind center. 

Or just a QB that was totally incapable. 

 

Maybe the OC was so totally handcuffed by the incapable QB that his play calls and designs suffered immensely. 

 

I'm betting things look 1000x different this week and for the better. 

 

It's going to very soon be realized just how bad a QB Tyrod was. 

 

[TigerJ]

Tyrod is possibly the most athletic QB in the NFL, close to what Michael Vick was.  But the shortcomings prevent him from functioning effectively at some of the things an NFL QB really needs to do.  That was the story of his tenure in a nutshell.  I hope Peterman can be a more complete QB.

[SaviorPeterman]

21 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Or just a QB that was totally incapable. 

 

Maybe the OC was so totally handcuffed by the incapable QB that his play calls and designs suffered immensely. 

 

I'm betting things look 1000x different this week and for the better. 

 

It's going to very soon be realized just how bad a QB Tyrod was. 

 

 

I'm certainly not a Dennison fan and wish we went a different direction, but I'm willing to bet we haven't even scratched the surface of his playbook for good reason.

 

If NP does as well as I suspect this week I get the feeling fans are going to wonder where on earth where all these 'new' formations in the passing game came from in the coming weeks and possibly look at Dennison a lot differently.

 

Remember he did win a SB in Denver with a washed up Manning and Brock Osweiler as his QB's. Trevor Simeon was also much better under Dennison's offense last year too. Certainly that has to be NP's floor at worse but I think the potential is there for much more.

[DisplacedBillsFan]

1 hour ago, TigerJ said:

Tyrod is possibly the most athletic QB in the NFL, close to what Michael Vick was.  But the shortcomings prevent him from functioning effectively at some of the things an NFL QB really needs to do.  That was the story of his tenure in a nutshell.  I hope Peterman can be a more complete QB.

This is interesting because if I were to ask who the better NFL QB is, Michael Vick or Tyrod Taylor, I am assuming people would unanimously say Vick. Well, if that is true...

 

Vick's best season was in 2004 when he was 24 years old with a  record of 11-4 where he passed for 2,313 yards, 14TDs and 12INT. He rushed for 902 yards and 3 TDs this season. The Falcons were middle of the road on defense this year, ranking 14th overall. Fun fact, Peerless Price was on this team.

 

You want yards instead? The most yards Vick every passed for was 3303 in 2011with the Philadelphia Eagles when he was 31 years old. He tossed 18 TDs to 14 INTs and had a 7-6 record as a starter that year. Fun fact, LeSean McCoy and Jason Peters were on that team...along with DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin and Brent Celek (more talent than we have).

 

Aside from that 11 win season the next best season Vick had in terms of wins is 8. He did this three times, twice with Atlanta and once with Philly.

 

So, if we all agree Vick is better than Tyrod, and I really do not know how you can argue otherwise, it should be apparent that he has had more than enough time to prove himself and what he can do. What do you want to do, wait around for 3000 yards and a couple 8 win seasons? Vick played 12 seasons (tossing out 2009 when he only started 1 game) and won more than 8 games once. ONCE! 1 for 12 on winning more than 8 games. And people are really waiting on a less talented player to lead this team to the playoffs?

 

Yea, this QB change was long overdue

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/09/buffalo-bills-tyrod-taylor-no-excuses-not-use-middle-of-field/

 

Dennison about Tyrod back in August (Bold added for emphasis):

 

“He understands what we want done, it’s just keeping him on the same page, listening to his feet, getting the ball out on time. That’s the biggest thing for me and him working on. He’s bought into it, he knows what he needs to do, he knows that the ball will get out,” Dennison said. “He knows where everybody is, that’s the biggest thing for me, distribution and if you’re to tell him to move on, he has to move on, can’t wait for a route to open up. If it ain’t getting there, something is wrong so he’s got to move on.”

 

It’s no secret that I am not a TT fan.  Those who think this recent move is unfair to him consider that TT has had feedback from Dennison early on about the issues that have plagued him.  Dennison is looking for a timing and spot offense and TT wants to improvise and have people very open.  At the end of the day, TT is not a fit for Dennison’s offense. 

 

The signs for this QB change were written early.  I really think the move with NP is as much about figuring out the path in draft as anything.  Stating the obvious, TT is done in Buffalo.  He is not a fit for the scheme.

 

 

I agree reed with this.  

 

Sal C. Also stated earlier this week on the Rochester radio scene that his understanding was that Dennison has worked with the team to incorporate several TT specific packages and plays, but that in doing that they needed TT to also work to meet the other requirements of the offense - most decidedly getting the ball out on time.  His take on this was that Dennison held up his end of the bargain, but TT was not holding up his side.

 

This went right down to the 4th quarter of the Saints game where they were asking him to open things up and he still couldn’t.  

[Foxx]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/09/buffalo-bills-tyrod-taylor-no-excuses-not-use-middle-of-field/

 

Dennison about Tyrod back in August (Bold added for emphasis):

 

“He understands what we want done, it’s just keeping him on the same page, listening to his feet, getting the ball out on time. That’s the biggest thing for me and him working on. He’s bought into it, he knows what he needs to do, he knows that the ball will get out,” Dennison said. “He knows where everybody is, that’s the biggest thing for me, distribution and if you’re to tell him to move on, he has to move on, can’t wait for a route to open up. If it ain’t getting there, something is wrong so he’s got to move on.”

 

It’s no secret that I am not a TT fan.  Those who think this recent move is unfair to him consider that TT has had feedback from Dennison early on about the issues that have plagued him.  Dennison is looking for a timing and spot offense and TT wants to improvise and have people very open.  At the end of the day, TT is not a fit for Dennison’s offense. 

 

The signs for this QB change were written early.  I really think the move with NP is as much about figuring out the path in draft as anything.  Stating the obvious, TT is done in Buffalo.  He is not a fit for the scheme.

does Tyrod have any college eligibility left? that is the only way he is going to find an offense in which would allow him the luxury to find receivers that are WIDE open.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Foxx

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...certainly understand all of your points 716....BUT.....if his deficiencies are known, most of what you identified are the MENTAL aspects of the game, AND if he is on your roster for 2017, why force the "round peg into the square hole" versus "winning is the ONLY thing" while he's here?......I am highly doubtful of "re-training the brain" after 7 years at the level to overcome those deficiencies, yet Dennison is damn well set on his "vaunted (?) system" which negates TT's mobility quality.......he may have been OC to Kubiak, but Kubiak was the offensive mind...likewise, Marrone was the Saints' OC but Payton was the offensive mind......Dennison to Kubiak and Marrone to Payton were OC empty suits carrying the clipboards IMO....now that Dennison is on his own, he is woefully lacking as far as maximizing the  talent HE HAS TO WORK WITH versus his "system".....TT is here for 2017 and perhaps not in 2018.....but why the hell sacrifice "W's" in 2017 because of silly azz system rigidity?.....think I missed the memo......

 

 

AFL - I believe the Bills are looking at long term planning and they are building an offense and although they incorporated some things TT does well - they were not going to sacrifice long term goals for short term wins. 

 

If they felt TT was a potential long term answer - an offense designed for him would require very different personnel from a WCO.  You need more speed and guys working the sidelines and less guys that work the middle parts of the field.  

 

I do not think they are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole - I think they are building the holes for next year and the square peg in TT was left over and they were going to see if it could work.  I do not think anyone on this coaching staff felt TT was going to be a long term answer - he was just the best of a bunch of poor options.  

 

Honestly - if they had been able to sign Hoyer like they tried - I am not sure TT would have started a game here this year - I think they would of looked to trade him also, but the only back-up was Peterman - so they waited.

[Maine-iac]

So if it's all on understanding, and Taylor couldn't handle it, why did Dennison suck in Denver with Peyton Manning?

[artmalibu]

To be a successful QB in the NFL one needs to be able to pass the ball when challenged to do so.  TT has shown that when kept in the pocket he wont beat the defense with his arm.  If the jets or the saints tried that defensive plan against the Pats Brady would throw 500 yards.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Dennison about Tyrod back in August (Bold added for emphasis):

 

“He understands what we want done, it’s just keeping him on the same page,

More and more inside info

Thanks. 

Maybe with these numerous stories people will start to accept this change under center.   

 

Earlier I brought up that TT was a bridge qb and now the bridge is closed.  

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

McDermott had to settle for Dennison as at best his 3rd choice after losing out on Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave.  Not a great play caller or scheme designer from what he's demonstrated thus far.   Let's see if he's any better with a new trigger man behind center. 

Thanks mr negative 

No link to post as backup?

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/09/buffalo-bills-tyrod-taylor-no-excuses-not-use-middle-of-field/

 

Dennison about Tyrod back in August (Bold added for emphasis):

 

“He understands what we want done, it’s just keeping him on the same page, listening to his feet, getting the ball out on time. That’s the biggest thing for me and him working on. He’s bought into it, he knows what he needs to do, he knows that the ball will get out,” Dennison said. “He knows where everybody is, that’s the biggest thing for me, distribution and if you’re to tell him to move on, he has to move on, can’t wait for a route to open up. If it ain’t getting there, something is wrong so he’s got to move on.”

 

It’s no secret that I am not a TT fan.  Those who think this recent move is unfair to him consider that TT has had feedback from Dennison early on about the issues that have plagued him.  Dennison is looking for a timing and spot offense and TT wants to improvise and have people very open.  At the end of the day, TT is not a fit for Dennison’s offense. 

 

The signs for this QB change were written early.  I really think the move with NP is as much about figuring out the path in draft as anything.  Stating the obvious, TT is done in Buffalo.  He is not a fit for the scheme.

This assessment of the matter is about as close to fact as can be.
Some of us hoped Dennison would come to Tyrods side of the game. As we felt TT would never become a pocket and or timing passer.
 Hope is what we do.

 Or B word

 Some B word alot

[26CornerBlitz]

While some head coaches retain playcalling responsibilities, others delegate them to their coordinators. Who's calling the shots for your team?

NFL Nation breaks down the playcallers for all 32 teams in order of offensive rankings, according to ESPN's Football Power Index (FPI).

22. Buffalo Bills

Offensive coordinator Rick Dennison

This is Dennison's first season with the Bills but his fourth stint as an offensive coordinator, having held that title for the Broncos (2006-08), Texans (2010-13) and Broncos (2015-16). This is the first time Dennison is primarily responsible for calling plays, having previously shared those duties with Jeremy Bates under Mike Shanahan during his first stint in Denver and then with Gary Kubiak with the Texans and again in Denver. Dennison has been the subject of some fans' ire this season for using a zone-based blocking scheme that has been seen as part of the problem behind the Bills' dropping from a league-leading 5.35 yards per carry last season to 3.79 this season, 24th in the NFL. Dennison and quarterback Tyrod Taylor also have yet to find much success in the passing game, where Buffalo ranks 30th in yards per game (180.4). In Dennison's defense, he has been tasked with integrating two receivers -- Jordan Matthewsand Kelvin Benjamin -- who were acquired via trades since August into the offense on the fly. -- Mike Rodak