Is Shaq a bust?

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

If he fails to develop, then yes he was over drafted. He is very stout against the run and a solid contributor on DL. I wouldn't blame him for the lack of a pass rush overall.  Our DTs get zero push and Hughes disappears for large chunks of the game. LBs, when they blitz, are worthless. Safeties are too far off the ball to really contribute. More stunts/twists may help the front four generate better pressure.

[MarlinTheMagician]

No, he's not.

[BarleyNY]

Many here’s assumed he was to replace and be in the mold of Mario, with whom the team had just cut ties.  As others have already posted, he is more of a complimentary DE.  Run defense, setting the edge and getting the occasional sack due to working through blocks or scheme.

[BuffaloBill]

Probably went higher in the draft than what he should have but by no means a bust.  Not to mention he is still learning.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

?

 

Where did the narrative appear that Shaq wasn't drafted as a pass rusher? 

 

Because he sucks at it he wasn't drafted for that? Who drafts a DE in the first round who can't rush the passer?

As a draft prospect he wasn't considered an elite pass rusher. If he were he would have been a top ten selection. He was a good pass rusher who had a well rounded game that included playing the run. He is a responsible contain DE who puts consistent pressure on the qb but rarely gets the sack. He's a good player who will never be special. What's wrong with that? The notion that he is a bust is simply foolish. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by JohnC

[HappyDays]

Whaley’s contributions to the team set us back years. It will take a couple drafts at least to make up for what he did.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Whaley’s contributions to the team set us back years. It will take a couple drafts at least to make up for what he did.

I have a different take. It was Rex and his philosophical change that set this franchise back. In reality it was the unschooled new owner who set this franchise back by weirdly hiring the known huckster.  My harshest criticism for Whaley is that he didn't adequately address the qb situation. 

[The Now Moment]

How long are we giving our young players to develop and get acclimated to the league?  Zay Jones seems to have been written off by many people after half a season even though he has showed progress in the last few games not dropping any passes.  Give Shaq some time, did Mario Williams get 10 sacks his first season...no but he developed into a great pick.  Clowney didn't have great sack numbers his first few years but is now developing into a very solid player.  We expect immediate production when we really need to give these players some time.  Shaq has been with us two years and had two coaches and two different schemes.  He could use some time to learn and develop his skill set.  In the meantime, he has and will continue to set the edge against the run.  Let the young man develop before writing him off 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Buffalo30
clarify

[Happy]

55 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Whaley’s contributions to the team set us back years. It will take a couple drafts at least to make up for what he did.

 

Whaley drafted for Wreck's defensive philosophy.  That said, I don't think Shaq is a bust, but a situational DE.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And that was always what I thought he was drafted as, but through 8 games this year (he has played in 7) he has 2 sacks.  Now i know the whole D-Line is not getting that much pressure the past 3 or 4 weeks... but that is a little disappointing and I was the biggest Shaq fan going, I had a top 10 grade on him coming out.  

 

He isn't a bust.... but on this pace he IS a disappointing 1st round pick.  

Exactly, he’s NOT a bust, but I  was hoping for more.

 

My son, on the other hand, thinks he’s grade A garbage. 

[simool]

Shaq reminds me a lot of Phil Hansen and that is not a bad thing.

[John from Riverside]

Not a bust

 

BUT

 

We have to find a way to generate more qb pressure

[dave mcbride]

He was drafted for Ryan's 3-4 scheme in which DEs set the edge. He was essentially the anti-Mario - a player whose game was run D and setting the edge; his stoutness would also allow the pass rushers behind him to get to the QB. He is miscast in this new scheme and is basically a black hole on pass rushing plays. He's not horrible, but he plays like a mid-third rounder. I strongly suspect that Ryan was the force behind this pick given the Clemson connection.

If there is one comparison, I'd say it's Robert Ayers. Ayers was drafted 18th overall and people raved about his ability to play the run coming out of Tennessee. They also projected that he'd evolve into a good pass rusher, which never really happened. He's decent, but not great. I suspect that Lawson's career will end up like his. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AyerRo99.htm

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by dave mcbride

[SaviorPeterman]

While it's still early, I would say yes he's a bust because he's not delivering on his perceived strength coming out of college as a premier pass rusher.

 

He's had moments and decent against the run, but you don't spend 1st round picks on players like that.

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

While it's still early, I would say yes he's a bust because he's not delivering on his perceived strength coming out of college as a premier pass rusher.

 

He's had moments and decent against the run, but you don't spend 1st round picks on players like that.

That wasn't his perceived strength. Virtually every scouting report highlights his run d and says he might struggle as a pass rusher. 

 

EDIT: Start here -- http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by dave mcbride

[CommonCents]

If you consider a guy who doesn't get his fifth year option picked up a bust, then he is a bust.

[SaviorPeterman]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

That wasn't his perceived strength. Virtually every scouting report highlights his run d and says he might struggle as a pass rusher. 

 

EDIT: Start here -- http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

 

 

I understand that but he was a better pass rusher in college and that's why most scouts were high on him.

 

He's not terrible by any means but certainly not living up to a top 20 draft pick and you can find many similar players in the mid to late rounds.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, SaviorPeterman said:

 

I understand that but he was a better pass rusher in college and that's why most scouts were high on him.

 

He's not terrible by any means but certainly not living up to a top 20 draft pick and you can find many similar players in the mid to late rounds.

I don't disagree with your assessment of his play, but it's not true that scouts were high on him because of his pass rushing ability. They liked him for other reasons, but I think those reasons amounted to "second-third round reasons." The Bills overdrafted him, just like Denver overdrafted Ayers. If you're going to draft a DE in round one, they should be have the physical talent to present a real pass rushing threat.

[John from Riverside]

I still say that sacks are going to come in bunches for the kid and by the end of the year he will have a decent number

[SaviorPeterman]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I don't disagree with your assessment of his play, but it's not true that scouts were high on him because of his pass rushing ability. They liked him for other reasons, but I think those reasons amounted to "second-third round reasons." The Bills overdrafted him, just like Denver overdrafted Ayers. If you're going to draft a DE in round one, they should be have the physical talent to present a real pass rushing threat.

 

I think he could still develop as a more complete player because like you mentioned a lot of scouting reports said he could struggle as a pass rusher, but some also said it might take him several years to develop in that area and just like with WR's, DE's are a position in which a lot of young players don't necessarily reach their potential right away.

 

Either way I'm happy with the pick and in many ways this is still a 'rookie' season for Lawson playing in an entirely new defense and considering the circumstances last year as a true rookie not playing a whole season.