Woods, watkins TDs

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And why then is the opposing teams #1 back assigned him or double teamed????  Because he's a scrub?

 

And who is worth the money?  I love how every receiver is not worth the money they're being paid.

 

The good news is Matthews value is tumbling, so that bodes well.....

 

No one said he’s a scrub...you’re just being dramatic.  Saying someone isn’t elite doesn’t mean they are saying he’s a scrub.

 

DeAndre Hopkins caught 111 balls with Hoyer and Mallett throwing to him 2 years ago.

78 with Brock Osweiler and Tom Savage last year.

 

Thats being elite.

 

 

 

[teef]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No one said he’s a scrub...you’re just being dramatic.  Saying someone isn’t elite doesn’t mean they are saying he’s a scrub.

 

DeAndre Hopkins caught 111 balls with Hoyer and Mallett throwing to him 2 years ago.

78 with Brock Osweiler and Tom Savage last year.

 

Thats being elite.

 

 

 

and i wouldn't be surprised if the 1 cb was on him, or even if he was double teamed on occasion.    it's shocking that someone is using that as an argument.

[dave mcbride]

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

But his comments are directly about his targets.  I posted his targets per game.

 

You called it a lie.  So if it’s a lie, then his specific comments about wanting more targets were wrong?

 

Was he targeted enough or not in Buffalo?So which is it Dave?  

You're asking me to make a value judgment, which I'm not going to to do. I'm merely responding to posted stats that don't factor in game contexts that skew the numbers. If you're going to post numbers like that, add context. 

[Boatdrinks]

Watkins is a quality WR with talent. If one watches the Rams games, they will see he gets open and Goff rarely looks his way. He could be used more, but the Rams have lots of weapons. Sammy was never going to be worth two first rounders unless he was Jerry Rice. The only reason it is still a topic is that the Bills have yet to establish a consistent and effective passing attack. If that was happening, no one including myself ( as a Watkins fan) would be thinking about it any more. It's the NFL and players come and go. The Bills don't have an offensive lineup similar to the Rams, so it's impossible to look at whatever is happening in LA as what would happen if SW was in Buffalo. We will see what happens with the addition of Benjamin  and the return of Clay. 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You're asking me to make a value judgment, which I'm not going to to do. I'm merely responding to posted stats that don't factor in game contexts that skew the numbers. If you're going to post numbers like that, add context. 

 

So we add in the few games he didn't finish and it raises his targets per game average.  It won't raise it that much but lets go with it.

There is no other reason to point out that context other than to let me know those numbers are skewed on the low side.  Right?

 

So even with that said, Watkins knows he was hurt.  It's not news to him...he was the injured player.  He still complained about targets.  So obviously he felt he wasn't targeted enough even with all this context added it.  This is a discussion board where you do discuss opinions.....was Watkins complaints about lack of targets warranted in your opinion?

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Watkins is a quality WR with talent. If one watches the Rams games, they will see he gets open and Goff rarely looks his way. He could be used more, but the Rams have lots of weapons. Sammy was never going to be worth two first rounders unless he was Jerry Rice. The only reason it is still a topic is that the Bills have yet to establish a consistent and effective passing attack. If that was happening, no one including myself ( as a Watkins fan) would be thinking about it any more. It's the NFL and players come and go. The Bills don't have an offensive lineup similar to the Rams, so it's impossible to look at whatever is happening in LA as what would happen if SW was in Buffalo. We will see what happens with the addition of Benjamin  and the return of Clay. 

Exactly and so exasperating.  The Bills had a very good offense that they didn't know what to do with it (and still don't).

 

Brady, Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Deshawn Watson...... would be handing the ball off in Buffalo, OBJ would get 6 targets a game, Antonio Brown would walk away like Boldin and be called a prima donna. 

[SaviorPeterman]

It's time to move on from Woods and Watkins, they aren't coming back to this team and even if they were still here would make little difference the way the oline has struggled this year.

 

 

[Sweats]

Who needs them anyways..........don't you know that Zay had his break-out game last week and he will save this WR corps.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Exactly and so exasperating.  The Bills had a very good offense that they didn't know what to do with it (and still don't).

 

Brady, Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Deshawn Watson...... would be handing the ball off in Buffalo, OBJ would get 6 targets a game, Antonio Brown would walk away like Boldin and be called a prima donna. 

 

You literally just said on the last page that with TT, Watkins would be elite.  

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Exactly and so exasperating.  The Bills had a very good offense that they didn't know what to do with it (and still don't).

 

Brady, Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Deshawn Watson...... would be handing the ball off in Buffalo, OBJ would get 6 targets a game, Antonio Brown would walk away like Boldin and be called a prima donna. 

 

 I can't agree with this as it's not what I was saying at all. The Bills offense would be ENTIRELY different with one of those QBs you mentioned. The Bills offense is what it currently is because McCoy is their best player, period. If their best player was a QB ( and it would be with any of those QBs) they would be relying much more on throwing the football because that would be their most likely way to WIN. That's what you do as a coach, give yourself the best chance you can. With Taylor, the best the Bills offense can be is complimentary to McCoy and the ground game. It's not there yet, and the running game is less consistent than it was last season. I'm not sure this OL can get it figured out in time or that the current starters are good enough. 

[Cynical]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Actually Goff is worse then TT but playing in an offense that it dynamic and inventive.  Goff is actually pretty bad wrt accuracy and reading defenses and the fact he checks down worse then TT.  Watkins is behind Cooper Kupp as an option says it all.

 

 

The irony when the evidence is staring at you right in the face and you still cannot see it.

Those damn trees ...

 

Quote

The fact the FO tried to undermine TT & the offense and tank the season says all you need about the Bills.

 

Just stop.

 

[Bill_with_it]

55 minutes ago, teef said:

so what if he's double teamed?  you think he's so elite...should't he still be showing some numbers?  i don't think i've once seen anyone call him a scrub on here.  his problem is he was a me first player, (as he even admitted) and even then his value wasn't there.  you know who's worth the money?  productive players.  sammy hasn't shown himself to be one.  

 

what's it going to take for people to realize that letting sammy go was likely a wise decision?  will have have to be non-productive on his  third team for people to actually clue in?

Its gonna take him his entire career fir people to realize that. Sammy is all about Sammy. I reqd people coaring him to Julio. You know who is covered by number one cbs, bracketed, and still performs? Julio. Yup Sammy is nowhere near Julio Jones. Sammy isnt even worth mentioning in the same sentence as the tip ten wrs this year even based on potential. Its ludicrous, imaginative, and sensational in its entirety.

[P51]

52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No one said he’s a scrub...you’re just being dramatic.  Saying someone isn’t elite doesn’t mean they are saying he’s a scrub.

 

DeAndre Hopkins caught 111 balls with Hoyer and Mallett throwing to him 2 years ago.

78 with Brock Osweiler and Tom Savage last year.

 

Thats being elite.

 

 

 

No names just context, who is more elite;

 

Player A with a 63% reception per target rate, 11 yards per target, 17.5 yards per reception, 9% TD per target rate, 15% TD per reception rate, 68% 1st down per reception rate, 465 team passing attempts (-154 passing attempts vs. team B).

or

Player B with a 58% reception per target rate, 8 yards per target, 13.7 yards per reception, 6% TD per target rate, 10% TD per reception rate, 75% 1st down per reception rate, 619 team passing attempts (+154 passing attempts vs. team A).

[Kelly the Dog]

If you don't watch the Rams games you don't know what you're talking about. And it has nothing to do with whether you like Sammy or not. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Sean McVay should be Coach of the Year. And he's only 31 years old! Nice life he's got going.

 

[Billsfan1972]

42 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

 

 I can't agree with this as it's not what I was saying at all. The Bills offense would be ENTIRELY different with one of those QBs you mentioned. The Bills offense is what it currently is because McCoy is their best player, period. If their best player was a QB ( and it would be with any of those QBs) they would be relying much more on throwing the football because that would be their most likely way to WIN. That's what you do as a coach, give yourself the best chance you can. With Taylor, the best the Bills offense can be is complimentary to McCoy and the ground game. It's not there yet, and the running game is less consistent than it was last season. I'm not sure this OL can get it figured out in time or that the current starters are good enough. 

I am being sarcastic with tongue firmly panted in cheek.  I consider TT a good QB, who could be much better with more innovative coaching and weapons at WR.  I think they tried to sabotage him this year by offering him no help at WR.....

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

Sean McVay should be Coach of the Year. And he's only 31 years old! Nice life he's got going.

 

Wow. He's a player coach. 

[P51]

 

1 hour ago, teef said:

so what if he's double teamed?  you think he's so elite...should't he still be showing some numbers?  i don't think i've once seen anyone call him a scrub on here.  his problem is he was a me first player, (as he even admitted) and even then his value wasn't there.  you know who's worth the money?  productive players.  sammy hasn't shown himself to be one.  

 

what's it going to take for people to realize that letting sammy go was likely a wise decision?  will have have to be non-productive on his  third team for people to actually clue in?

 

Serious question: Does the inequality of opportunity play a role in producing stats?

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

If you don't watch the Rams games you don't know what you're talking about. And it has nothing to do with whether you like Sammy or not. 

Goff is a young qb who at this point isn't adept at going through his progressions. One of the reasons why Goff made a quantum leap as a qb is that their smart, young HC simplified the passing game so that Goff could complete passes and gain confidence. It's working and the team is succeeding. Unquestionably, Goff is more comfortable throwing to Kupp and Woods than Watkins. The result is that the passing game is clicking even with Watkins consistently getting open because other receivers are also getting open. 

 

It's not too difficult to understand why Watkins who is playing for a contract is frustrated. Tough! The team is winning despite the fact that he is not getting what he believes to be his fair share of touches. There is no doubt that Watkins is a superlative talent. What he is not is a superlative teammate. 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So we add in the few games he didn't finish and it raises his targets per game average.  It won't raise it that much but lets go with it.

There is no other reason to point out that context other than to let me know those numbers are skewed on the low side.  Right?

 

So even with that said, Watkins knows he was hurt.  It's not news to him...he was the injured player.  He still complained about targets.  So obviously he felt he wasn't targeted enough even with all this context added it.  This is a discussion board where you do discuss opinions.....was Watkins complaints about lack of targets warranted in your opinion?

I don't know if it was merited; lots of elite talents complain about lack of touches, and he wasn't that bad about it. Frankly, I don't care that much either. I think it's a manufactured controversy, truth be told. That stuff doesn't matter to me much.