Schopp: Taylor is better than you think.

[John from Riverside]

I have been, and remain probably, on the more sceptical side when it comes to Tyrod Taylor's ability to be the long term answer for this team.

 

However, I think he has had 1 great game, 4 solid games and 2 poor games this season. He was solid yesterday. People criticising him for yesterday's yardage count need to remember that for a lot of yesterday he was getting the ball in good field position. Hard to put up 300 yards when a couple of your drives start 35 yards or less from their goalline and when from the 2nd quarter on you are playing infront and trying intentionally (and correctly) to run the ball, churn clock and keep a potentially explosive offense off the field.

 

He missed some plays yesterday, he has crept back to a habit if holding the ball a bit long in the pocket for my tastes (after marked improvement in the Denver & Atlanta games) but he played a solid game made some big conversions when needed (the 2nd and 20 to Tate and a 3rd down crosser to Matthews in the drive just after Oakland had scored their 2nd TD) and managed the game effectively.

 

Do I believe he has yet proven he could win a game that turns intona shoot out? No. But let's hope no game this season does and 25-35 points is consistently enough to win. I still think the Bills long term need an answer and the cultish annointing of him as "a Franchise QB, just an unorthodox one" that has taken place by some today is off the mark... but Tyrod can help us achieve our goals this year and that is all I care about while we are in the race.

I agree with all of this

 

I also think it is important to note that a big crit of TT is his short game.....and it was on display yesterday (with the exception of 2 passes....one of which was brought back on a BS push off call be fathead Ed)

 

Tyrod was dinking and dunking them to death.....with a lot of passes over the middle.

 

He continues to do things that people say he cannot do....its like a fricken bucket list or something

[SaviorPeterman]

I've been a very harsh critic of Bills QB's over the years, but I have not been of Taylor. I've just always thought that he has great skills, just needs time to learn and gain experience. I think he could be one of these QB's who plays a very long time and plays his best football in his mid to late 30's.

 

He's a hard worker who seems intelligent, he just may never be the elite wonderboy so many fans desire.

 

In a perfect scenario we have success with Taylor the next few years and then unleash Peterman after a few years of marinating on the bench so to speak.

[Scott7975]

Scott, it is actually almost a complete second longer. in NFL terms, that is an eternity. so yes, it is almost an eternity.

 

don't get me wrong, i think he is (apparently) improving. i was just looking to give some reasoning why the O-line is maligned.

You are right its 3/4 of a second longer. I was looking at Brady when I wrote that. From Brady its only .35 seconds longer. Less than a blink of an eye. And again, Carr is getting rid of it quick by design. Short quick passes/screen passes is their offense. Carr has third shortest air yards in the league and it was heavily discussed about their short passing game.

 

I just think the stat is overblown because there is a lot that changes tenths of seconds for every team.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Scott7975

[Wayne Arnold]

As long as he has time to throw , don't know why this is a negative. I always thought it was great for Aikman to be able to sit back and wait all day for his receivers to get open.

 

It's a negative because his high sack number is a result of his slow progression speed and indecisiveness..

[GunnerBill]

I agree that overall it did very well. Just the neutralizing of Mack was a huge factor in the game. The run blocking was mostly good and very good in the last third of the game. Tyrod had time to throw sometimes, sure. But numerous times they were on him immediately and he avoids it so easily that it seems like he has a lot of time to throw. The three reverse pivots he did (I think it was three times) and then went right back to the middle of the field I don think you can call great blocking because most QBs get sacked two or all three times. Several times he had to roll out to avoid the rush.

 

And again, on the plays he just stood in the pocket and delivered it was often (but not always) a quick pass for short yardage. They were better than usual but not very good. That's why I said pretty good. His quick easy elusiveness imo makes them look better than they were.

There was one play where he needed the pivots and another where he pivoted away from ghost pressure. The o-line was good both in pass and run protection yesterday.

[Scott7975]

 

It's a negative because his high sack number is a result of his slow progression speed and indecisiveness..

McCown, Stafford, Dalton, Newton, Palmer, Siemian, Wentz, Brady, Smith, Rodgers all have more sacks than Taylor

 

Watson is tied with Taylor.

 

Flacco, Manning, Cousins, Hoyer, Wilson are all within a few sacks of Tyrods number.

[Foxx]

You are right its 3/4 of a second longer. I was looking at Brady when I wrote that. From Brady its only .35 seconds longer. Less than a blink of an eye. And again, Carr is getting rid of it quick by design. Short quick passes/screen passes is their offense. Carr has third shortest air yards in the league and it was heavily discussed about their short passing game.

 

I just think the stat is overblown because there is a lot that changes tenths of seconds for every team.

you under stated it, i over stated it.

 

my point is that Carr is first and Tyrod is 35th (minimum 60 pass attempts, excluding sacks) one removed from last. i also think it is no coincedence that grouped with Taylor at the bottom of the time to throw is Wilson and Watson (also, Trubisky, Goff, Kizer, Brissett and Prescott). you say that Carr's game plans are designed to be short/screen passes. i think that was the design to begin with for Tyrod as well, being as they were supposed to run a version of the WCO. Tyrod's limitations changed that plan though.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Foxx

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

It's a negative because his high sack number is a result of his slow progression speed and indecisiveness..

He has the 8th highest sack % of current starters, and his sack % is lower than Rodgers and Bradford on the year. And despite that, he's 16th in sack yards lost per attempt and overall yards lost to sacks.

[JM2009]

Josh Reed‏Verified account @4JoshReed 43m43 minutes ago

More

Tyrod Taylor’s record as a starter with #Bills is now 20-16. anyone still want Peterman as the starter?

[Foxx]

 

Josh Reed‏Verified account @4JoshReed 43m43 minutes ago

More

Tyrod Taylor’s record as a starter with #Bills is now 20-16. anyone still want Peterman as the starter?

 

i'll bite.

 

i'll bet you don't.

[Wayne Arnold]

I just watched every play in the condensed version of the game on Game Pass. Tyrod did not have a lot of time at all. And more importantly, he had very little room. The pockets that Carr were throwing out of often had the same amount of time to throw (which wasn't a lot), but very wide. Even when TT had time, guys were often very close to him, like a yard away. He very rarely had a lot of time to throw that wasn't because he avoided immediate pressure and did it himself.

 

Carr leads the NFL in getting the ball out in the least amount of time. He takes the snap, finds his man and immediately makes a decisive throw.

 

Taylor, on the other hand, requires significantly more time to throw because of his limitations.

[paulbills]

There is definitely some trust issues and or reluctance to throw the ball, because it is just NOT normal for the teams leading receiver to be their running back, by FAR, we're talking McCoy has 38 receptions, clay has 20 and Matthews has 15, that's more than double!

 

You're telling me this is because of play calling? because of our run first sentiment? I think it has more to do with Tyrod's inability to read defenses and coverages so he goes to his checkdowns 75% of the time or tries to scramble to keep plays alive and then hit targets on routes that fall apart and have the receivers doubling back or running around trying to get open, our longest pass play is only 47 yards. it's frustrating for sure.

[JM2009]

i'll bite.

 

i'll bet you don't.

Not now. Why would anyone right now with the way it's working. Not turning the ball over with a defense getting turnovers is working.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Carr leads the NFL in getting the ball out in the least amount of time. He takes the snap, finds his man and immediately makes a decisive throw.

 

Taylor, on the other hand, requires significantly more time to throw because of his limitations.

Which also happens to be arguably his biggest strength. Tyrods improvisational skills are the main reason for the time to throw number (which is why its a stupid stat). It tells none of the story. Drew Bledsoe would have had a quicker release time too but went down when anyone got within 5 feet of him. Time to throw tells absolutely nothing.

[JM2009]

 

Carr leads the NFL in getting the ball out in the least amount of time. He takes the snap, finds his man and immediately makes a decisive throw.

 

Taylor, on the other hand, requires significantly more time to throw because of his limitations.

Which QB had the better game yesterday? It's all about what works in the right system.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Carr leads the NFL in getting the ball out in the least amount of time. He takes the snap, finds his man and immediately makes a decisive throw.

 

Taylor, on the other hand, requires significantly more time to throw because of his limitations.

I wasnt talking about those kinds of plays. There were a lot on both sides. I was talking about when they both wanted to look downfield and not quick throws. Although both qbs faced quick rushes a lot on quick throws, too.

[Foxx]

Which also happens to be arguably his biggest strength. Tyrods improvisational skills are the main reason for the time to throw number (which is why its a stupid stat). It tells none of the story. Drew Bledsoe would have had a quicker release time too but went down when anyone got within 5 feet of him. Time to throw tells absolutely nothing.

so, you think it no coincidence and that positions 29 through 36, at this link tells you absolutely nothing? i beg to differ. what is the common denominator with all but Taylor and Wilson in that grouping? i'll tell you, they are first or second year players. outside of Wilson, that tells me that those players are improvising because they are not yet adept at reading defenses and have other areas as well where they are deficient which causes them to hold the ball longer.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Foxx

[section122]

 

Aaron Rodgers

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger

Russ Wilson

Kirk Cousins

Matt Ryan

Andrew Luck

Carson Wentz

Deshaun Watson

Dak Prescott

Phillip Rivers

Alex Smith

 

Honorable mention (Flawed or jury still out)

 

Matt Stafford

Derek Carr

Cam Newton

Marcus Mariota

Tyrod Taylor

Eli Manning

Jameis Winston

Andy Dalton

 

 

Standard: Making progressions at an average NFL starter level speed, little-to-no hesitancy in delivering a consistently accurate ball to receivers that are not necessarily wide open, and the ability to consistently win games when asked to throw for the average number of pass attempts per game (36 pass attempts in 2016).

 

This was your standard and props for actually answering my question. Now to rebut:

 

Russel Wilson - in 2015 he threw for 36+ attempts twice and went 0-2. Since 2015 when TT was named starter Russ is 8-5-1. Those were his 4th, 5th, and 6th years in the league. In his first 3 years he went 2-0. That is correct, in 48 games he threw for 36+ attempts twice and one was an ot game. In his first 4 seasons combined he went 2-2. Again I will repeat, TT's first 3 years are looking a lot like Wilson's first 3 years.

 

Kirk Cousins - Since 2015 he has attempted 36+ passes 18 times. His record? 5-12-1. Might need to move him off of your list.

 

Philip Rivers - I don't even want to waste my time with him. Suffice it to say no. The Chargers haven't won more than 9 games since 2009. Never mind I'll do the stats... 3-11 since the start of 2016.

 

Deshaun Watson - promising start but your going to anoint a guy 6 starts in?

 

Alex Smith? It took 6 years for the light to come on and even after it did TT has played as well as him. This is the one year Alex Smith has been ahead of TT. He's 5-4 over the last 2 seasons.

 

Dak Prescott - 4-5 in games throwing more than 36 times including 1-3 this year. Might need to move him down.

 

 

So now your list has 4 guys left. Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. I haven't looked at the numbers but I won't argue that they aren't the elite tier of qbs. Big Ben has a 5 int game this year though and Brees has 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Both of those guys struggle on the road as well.

 

Your "standard" is unachievable save for the top 4 guys which is why I say people need to pay attention to the rest of the league. TT is playing very well. He outplayed Carr yesterday and I just realized even in your negativity and assuming you have TT at the bottom of your flawed list you still have him as your 21st best qb. I don't think anyone can put Eli, Mariota, or Andy Dalton above him and I would argue Cam and Jameis shouldn't be above him either.

[Wayne Arnold]

McCown, Stafford, Dalton, Newton, Palmer, Siemian, Wentz, Brady, Smith, Rodgers all have more sacks than Taylor

 

Watson is tied with Taylor.

 

Flacco, Manning, Cousins, Hoyer, Wilson are all within a few sacks of Tyrods number.

 

Rodgers is the only QB worth mentioning who has a worse sack percentage than Taylor after his no sack game yesterday. Which is really odd for Rodgers and an obvious anomaly. Maybe Rodgers was starting to show his age before his collar bone break.

you say that Carr's game plans are designed to be short/screen passes. i think that was the design to begin with for Tyrod as well, being as they were supposed to run a version of the WCO. Tyrod's limitations changed that plan though.

 

Exactly.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

I think you left out / glossed over / failed to mention --- 165 yds passing...

 

The odds are highly against winning too many more games with that kind of performance...

 

 

The truth is that this team is winning games it would normally lose because the defense is playing out of their minds great football and the injuries that are seemingly inevitable at some point haven't hit yet...

 

And I am as happy as anybody for what some have called winning boring football games - for a change!

 

Right now Micah Hyde is having a Pro Bowl - Defensive MVP - All Pro(?) season and the rest of the secondary have jelled unusually quickly. More quickly than most would have banked on, before the season began.

 

I always liked Leslie Frazier as a Defensive Coordinator and kudos to Gil Byrd the Defensive Secondary Coach...

 

Okay, I want to point something very simple out to you. These are Taylor's numbers when trailing in games this year:

 

96 ATT 66 COMP 68.8 % 679 Yards 7.1 AVG 44 Long 5 TD 1 INT 101.9 Rating

 

His 101.9 Passer Rating is the 6th best in the NFL. And before you accuse him of minimal attempts compared to the rest of NFL QBs, that might be true on the whole, but not so much when trailing. He has a dozen more attempts than Watson does when trailing, for example, even though Watson averages more attempts per game than Taylor.

 

Actually, I was curious so I went and checked through the play-by-plays to track and compare how many minutes we've been trailing as a team and what I found is I think an interesting display of both Taylor's value and our offensive approach.

 

Buffalo has only trailed about 35% of all the 400 minutes of football they've played.

 

In that 35% of those 400 minutes, Taylor has attempted 49% of all his attempts, completed 53% of all his completions for 51% of all his yards and 62.5% of all his TDs.

 

It's like McDermott wants Taylor to be like a burner on a gas stove, when you need to heat up adjust quickly to higher heat and once you get what you're cooking to the temperature you want turn it down and let it simmer, but watch it and be ready to turn it back up if you need to.

 

You can look at his total yardage if you want and see that he got significantly less than Carr did and call Carr a better QB because of that, but it's a ludicrous argument to make. Taylor's getting his yards when they're most needed right now. And it's working.

Edited October 30, 2017 by transplantbillsfan