Schopp: Taylor is better than you think.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

It was a great game, very entertaining, and one of them lost. Watson did have 402 passing, btw, you looked up net passing which subtracted his sack yards.

 

The nit I was picking with my post was that there have been several games won this year with QBs under 200 yards. Just like there have been several games with 300 yard QBs losing.

see Stats Lie

 

Either the NFL is going through a culture change methinks or QBing really sucks.

 

IMHO - 300 is a nice to see not a mandatory. just to be clear.

[Wayne Arnold]

Clearly you haven't been paying attention to the league this year.

 

Taylor is currently 29th in the league in passing yards per game.

 

Only five quarterbacks who have started a game this season averages less than 165 yards per game: Deshone Kizer (rookie), CJ Beathard (rookie), Joe Flacco, Kevin Hogan and Mitch Trubisky (rookie).

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Taylor is currently 29th in the league in passing yards per game.

 

Only five quarterbacks who have started a game this season averages less than 165 yards per game: Deshone Kizer (rookie), CJ Beathard (rookie), Joe Flacco, Kevin Hogan and Mitch Trubisky (rookie).

 

Oh but that bet you made!

[grb]

 

"Talent starved offense"

• His running back is a future Hall of Famer who feels as good/healthy as ever.
• His OLine is the same one that was considered a Top 5 unit in 2015 and 2016.
• His #1 wide receiver led the Eagles receivers in receptions the last two years.

It's far from great but "talent starved offense" is hyperbole.

 

Taylor's ability to "keep plays alive" is exciting but I'd rather have a QB who finds the open man and gets the ball out before he's forced to work his scrambling magic.

 

"The entire country appreciates the job he's doing" because no one thought anything of him going into this season and to the winning quarterback go the spoils. I remember when the Bills started the 2008 season 4-0 and Trent Edwards was getting national praise as an MVP candidate.

 

• As good as McCoy is, prior to yesterday the running game ranged from erratic to nonexistent. Remember at Carolina, when the running backs accounted for 14yds total? Signs are looking good with Glenn healing and the OC relaxing on his imposed blocking scheme changes, but in the first part of the season, the running game was a shell of it's 2016 self . Also : If you want to blame McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency facing 8-or-more.
• The O-line's virtues never extended to pass protection. Yes, Taylor sometimes takes too long to pass, but quarterbacks slightly better or worse at Time to Throw still get sacked at a much lower rate. Why would you guess that is?
• Really? The Bills have one of the bottom-five groups of receivers in the league - perhaps the worst - and you give us Matthew's record on a team that didn't even plan to start him. The Bill's have no legitimate number-one receiver, no true wide-out (in a collection of number-two slot receivers), no real deep threat, and a rookie just coming out of a prolonged funk. Most of the Bills receivers are either punt returners or cast-offs rejects from other teams.

 

Right now Taylor is eleventh by the NFL's passer rating. Who above him has done more with less? No one.

Edited October 30, 2017 by grb

[Wayne Arnold]

 

Oh but that bet you made!

 

We all hope the defense keeps forcing turnovers and giving the offense the ball in opposing territory but it's not likely.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

• As good as McCoy is, prior to yesterday the running game ranged from erratic to nonexistent. Remember the Carolina game when the running backs accounted for 14yds total? Signs are looking good with Glenn healing and the OC relaxing on his imposed blocking scheme changes, but in the first part of the season, the running game was a shell of it's 2016 self . Also : If you want to lay some of McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency of facing 8-or-more.
• The O-line's virtues never extended to pass protection. Yes, Taylor sometimes takes too long to pass but quarterbacks slightly better or worse at Time to Throw still got sacked at much lower rates.
• Really? The Bills have one of the bottom-five groups of receivers in the league - perhaps the worst - and you give us Matthew's record on a team that didn't even plan to start him. The Bill's have no legitimate number-one receiver, no true wide-out (in a collection of number-two slot receivers), and a rookie who is just coming out of a prolonged funk. Most of the Bills receivers are either punt returners or cast-offs rejects from other teams.

 

Right now Taylor is eleventh by the NFL's passer rating. Who above him has done more with less? No one.

Someone said yesterday that when they were growing up they wanted to emulate Barry Sanders...

 

Wasn't Barry the king of negative yard rushes?

[HappyDays]

 

That's one statistic.

 

And I could be wrong but I don't see anyone saying he sucks. There's a lot of space between "sucks" and "has yet to show that he can carry a championship franchise."

I dont see anyone saying Tyrod can carry a championship franchise. What do you mean by that anyways? No QB can carry an entire team of practice squad members to a Super Bowl, so when you say carry what standard are you thinking of?

[Scott7975]

 

I think you left out / glossed over / failed to mention --- 165 yds passing...

 

The odds are highly against winning too many more games with that kind of performance...

 

 

The truth is that this team is winning games it would normally lose because the defense is playing out of their minds great football and the injuries that are seemingly inevitable at some point haven't hit yet...

 

And I am as happy as anybody for what some have called winning boring football games - for a change!

 

Right now Micah Hyde is having a Pro Bowl - Defensive MVP - All Pro(?) season and the rest of the secondary have jelled unusually quickly. More quickly than most would have banked on, before the season began.

 

I always liked Leslie Frazier as a Defensive Coordinator and kudos to Gil Byrd the Defensive Secondary Coach...

I didn't leave it out. I simply don't care about it. The offensive design is not throwing 300 yards every game. He also had some good throws taken away from him for holding and for offensive pass interference.

 

Carr did throw for over 300 yards. He also helped his team lose a football game. He also picked up a chunk of those on a garbage time drive. They were also 1 of 8 on third down after the first drive of the game. Yards don't mean anything. Effective passing is what matters and Taylor was effective.

[Wayne Arnold]

• As good as McCoy is, prior to yesterday the running game ranged from erratic to nonexistent. Remember the Carolina game when the running backs accounted for 14yds total? Signs are looking good with Glenn healing and the OC relaxing on his imposed blocking scheme changes, but in the first part of the season, the running game was a shell of it's 2016 self . Also : If you want to blame McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency facing 8-or-more.
• The O-line's virtues never extended to pass protection. Yes, Taylor sometimes takes too long to pass, but quarterbacks slightly better or worse at Time to Throw still get sacked at a much lower rate. Why would you guess that is?
• Really? The Bills have one of the bottom-five groups of receivers in the league - perhaps the worst - and you give us Matthew's record on a team that didn't even plan to start him. The Bill's have no legitimate number-one receiver, no true wide-out (in a collection of number-two slot receivers), and a rookie just coming out of a prolonged funk. Most of the Bills receivers are either punt returners or cast-offs rejects from other teams.

Right now Taylor is eleventh by the NFL's passer rating. Who above him has done more with less? No one.

 

Also : If you want to blame McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency facing 8-or-more.

 

​Please provide a link to this information because I don't believe it for a second.

 

The O-line's virtues never extended to pass protection. Yes, Taylor sometimes takes too long to pass, but quarterbacks slightly better or worse at Time to Throw still get sacked at a much lower rate. Why would you guess that is?

 

Taylor holds the ball longer than any quarterback in the league year after year. The OLine gets no credit for giving Taylor all that time to find receivers and finally pull the trigger that he so desperately needs?

 

Right now Taylor is eleventh by the NFL's passer rating. Who above him has done more with less? No one.

 

Thursday night's opposing quarterback, for one.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

We all hope the defense keeps forcing turnovers and giving the offense the ball in opposing territory but it's not likely.

 

 

they'll still score points and win games. that outlook looks much better than finding a reason why they wont. but I know it's real tough for some after, I know, 17 years. this is a different team that frankly gives me hope both offensively, defensively as well as special teams.

 

 

but that's just me.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

Taylor is currently 29th in the league in passing yards per game.

 

Only five quarterbacks who have started a game this season averages less than 165 yards per game: Deshone Kizer (rookie), CJ Beathard (rookie), Joe Flacco, Kevin Hogan and Mitch Trubisky (rookie).

I don't care about season averages. Teams are winning games with sub 200 yard passing days this year. Passing yards have very little, if any, correlation with wins.

[Wayne Arnold]

I dont see anyone saying Tyrod can carry a championship franchise. What do you mean by that anyways? No QB can carry an entire team of practice squad members to a Super Bowl, so when you say carry what standard are you thinking of?

 

Standard: Making progressions at an average NFL starter level speed, little-to-no hesitancy in delivering a consistently accurate ball to receivers that are not necessarily wide open, and the ability to consistently win games when asked to throw for the average number of pass attempts per game (36 pass attempts in 2016).

[Scott7975]

 

Also : If you want to blame McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency facing 8-or-more.

 

​Please provide a link to this information because I don't believe it for a second.

 

The O-line's virtues never extended to pass protection. Yes, Taylor sometimes takes too long to pass, but quarterbacks slightly better or worse at Time to Throw still get sacked at a much lower rate. Why would you guess that is?

 

Taylor holds the ball longer than any quarterback in the league year after year. The OLine gets no credit for giving Taylor all that time to find receivers and finally pull the trigger that he so desperately needs?

 

Right now Taylor is eleventh by the NFL's passer rating. Who above him has done more with less? No one.

 

Thursday night's opposing quarterback, for one.

The 8+ in the box stat in McCoy is true. Nextgenstats.nfl.com. look it up.

 

It rose to 32.85% after yesterday. Going into yesterday it was around 29% or it may have been two weeks ago that I looked.

[grb]

 

Taylor is currently 29th in the league in passing yards per game.

 

Only five quarterbacks who have started a game this season averages less than 165 yards per game: Deshone Kizer (rookie), CJ Beathard (rookie), Joe Flacco, Kevin Hogan and Mitch Trubisky (rookie).

 

Did anyone else notice the trick Wayne plays here? He takes yesterday's passing number - 165yds - and tries to pass it off as Taylor's season average.

If he had a stronger case, I'd bet such tactics wouldn't be necessary......

[HappyDays]

 

Did anyone else notice the trick Wayne plays here? He takes yesterday's passing number - 165yds - and tries to pass it off as Taylor's season average.

If he had a stronger case, I'd bet such tactics wouldn't be necessary......

Wayne plays the devils advocate more often than not. Sometimes I think he just does it for fun.

[hondo in seattle]

 

• As good as McCoy is, prior to yesterday the running game ranged from erratic to nonexistent. Remember the Carolina game when the running backs accounted for 14yds total? Signs are looking good with Glenn healing and the OC relaxing on his imposed blocking scheme changes, but in the first part of the season, the running game was a shell of it's 2016 self . Also : If you want to blame McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency facing 8-or-more.
• The O-line's virtues never extended to pass protection. Yes, Taylor sometimes takes too long to pass, but quarterbacks slightly better or worse at Time to Throw still get sacked at a much lower rate. Why would you guess that is?
• Really? The Bills have one of the bottom-five groups of receivers in the league - perhaps the worst - and you give us Matthew's record on a team that didn't even plan to start him. The Bill's have no legitimate number-one receiver, no true wide-out (in a collection of number-two slot receivers), and a rookie just coming out of a prolonged funk. Most of the Bills receivers are either punt returners or cast-offs rejects from other teams.

 

Right now Taylor is eleventh by the NFL's passer rating. Who above him has done more with less? No one.

 

I get your more-with-less point.

 

But the problem with the NFL's passer rating is that it doesn't measure productivity. In most cases, a QB who finishes a game 10 of 15 for 120 yards with 1 TD and 1 pick isn't helping his team as much as a QB who finishes 20 of 30 for 240 yards with 2 TDs and 2 picks. According to the passer rating system, these two games are identical. But I'd chose the QB who got me 240 yards over the one who got me a mere 120 yards. Production matters.

 

Is Taylor a guy who can take a team down the field with his arm when that's required? That's the contentious question and he's clearly not in the same category as Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc.

 

But has TT played well in our run-first system? Yes, he has. He's made plays with both his legs and his arm. He's protected the ball. He's completed a good percentage of his passes. And he's accomplished all this with a line that sometimes struggles in passpro and a subpar WR group.

 

Like many Bills fans, I fantasize about finding the next Jim Kelly but Taylor is fun to watch and we can win with him under center.

[HappyDays]

 

Standard: Making progressions at an average NFL starter level speed, little-to-no hesitancy in delivering a consistently accurate ball to receivers that are not necessarily wide open, and the ability to consistently win games when asked to throw for the average number of pass attempts per game (36 pass attempts in 2016).

Sure, now which measurable standards would you prefer to use?

[papazoid]

TT is 5-2 and 11th in passer rating

 

all while not having a true #1 WR or his #1 TE

[grb]

 

Also : If you want to blame McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency facing 8-or-more.

 

​Please provide a link to this information because I don't believe it for a second.

 

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders

 

Though I do stand corrected - He's currently 15th by this week's numbers. Last week he was 20th or 21st. Gillislee is third.

[grb]

 

I get your more-with-less point.

 

But the problem with the NFL's passer rating is that it doesn't measure productivity. In most cases, a QB who finishes a game 10 of 15 for 120 yards with 1 TD and 1 pick isn't helping his team as much as a QB who finishes 20 of 30 for 240 yards with 2 TDs and 2 picks. According to the passer rating system, these two games are identical. But I'd chose the QB who got me 240 yards over the one who got me a mere 120 yards. Production matters.

 

Is Taylor a guy who can take a team down the field with his arm when that's required? That's the contentious question and he's clearly not in the same category as Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc.

 

But has TT played well in our run-first system? Yes, he has. He's made plays with both his legs and his arm. He's protected the ball. He's completed a good percentage of his passes. And he's accomplished all this with a line that sometimes struggles in passpro and a subpar WR group.

 

Like many Bills fans, I fantasize about finding the next Jim Kelly but Taylor is fun to watch and we can win with him under center.

 

Your point is legit. But Taylor isn't a Captain Checkdown type. Here's one way to gauge that : The NFL tallies +20yd pass plays. You can take the number of such plays by a quarterback and divide by their total attempts, to see how often they push the ball down the field. Right now Taylor is sixth in the NFL, behind Watson, Goff, Brees, Cousins, and Brady. Russell Wilson is seventh. And that is with a rag-tag collection of receivers and no real deep threat.