Magox Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Whaley's issue was never talent scouting - he's a good scout (except, arguably, at QB). His issue is that he couldn't rise above talent scouting to team-building. THIS IS NOT DISPUTABLE LET'S MOVE ON. Hey!! We agree on something. Yeah, I have to second this sentiment, he had a good eye for talent, but that does not make one GM material. He wanted to keep Schwartz and hire Hue Jackson who would have run the offense. Hard to say what would have happened.Part of being a good GM is being able to sell your vision to ownership. He was not able to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 So from Whaley's drafts (2014-2016 - 2013 is hard to know how much Whaley how much Buddy... it would actually help Whaley's count to include because Hopkins and Woods are starters elsewhere with EJ and Goodwin as depth and 2017 was McDermott's draft. Starters for the Bills: Preston Brown Shaq Lawson Depth on the Bills: Seantrel Henderson John Miller Nick O'Leary Adolphus Washington Starters elsewhere: Sammy Watkins Ronald Darby Nigel Bradham Zach Brown (FA) Stephone Gilmore (Injured) Depth elsewhere: Ross Cockrell Kevon Seymour Reggie Ragland Cardale Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Best post of the thread. He also couldn't overcome the Rex hiring. His biggest mistake was not choosing his head coach. He allowed Terry and Kim to be swept away by Rex. If he had made a stand against hiring Rex, he may have had a chance. Switching to the 3-4 ruined this team for 2 seasons If he had made a stand against hiring Rex, he would probably have been shown the door much earlier, an we would have had a Rex flunkie as GM. Who knows how bad this team could have become. Part of being a good GM is being able to sell your vision to ownership. He was not able to do that. His circumstances didn't do him any favors, either. Having Brandon running the team, Ralph kicking the bucket abd Pegs coming in and buying it, then a coach with a winning record simply walk away, all while he had no real power... that seems to be a miserable work environment. While he did some good and bad things here, some of the hyperbole in this thread is classic. SDS, we need a new emoji, or maybe you should autocorrect the word apologist to "posters who disagree with my hot take". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I'm one of the minority who think Whaley was a good GM. He got a lot of the right players. This was a team who, under Marrone, went (9-7) (and please spare me the bull **** of not counting the last win of the season) and was moving in the right direction. I don't fault him, necessarily, for "not finding a QB." People act like this is easy. It's a crap shoot. Even if you get the no-brainer pick, like Luck, it might not work out. However, the one major mistake for which I do fault him .... believing in EJ Manuel for too long. Although I don't fault him for not finding a QB, I do fault him for not looking/trying hard enough. To me, THAT was his fatal flaw. He built a solid team that was a QB away, in my opinion. He was the victim - and I chose that word carefully - of a new owner who had no respect for the GM position. He had an inept HC shoved down his throat who proceeded to VERY quickly undo everything he'd accomplished. I was behind Whaley being fired, but only because of his mishandling of the most important position in professional sports. No other reason. I am EXTREMELY optimistic about what Beane can/will do, here. And Beane is lucky that Terry (and Kim?) Pegula learned quickly (although the two Rex years did not go by quickly) that he needs to keep his mouth shut and his wallet open and let the GM run the team. Nah, his fatal flaw was being a wuss and not demanding to choose his head coach. That lack of confidence trickled into his leadership skills (or lack thereof) and horrible dealings with the media. You can't be a quality general manager in this league if you can't lead and you can't speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Nah, his fatal flaw was being a wuss and not demanding to choose his head coach. That lack of confidence trickled into his leadership skills (or lack thereof) and horrible dealings with the media. You can't be a quality general manager in this league if you can't lead and you can't speak. This is not real life in any profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Part of being a good GM is being able to sell your vision to ownership. He was not able to do that. Russ and Pegula's wanted big name Rex Ryan...doubt Whaley was able to stop this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 This is not real life in any profession. You act like the Pegulas are a couple of hard-ass "my-way-or-the-highway" people. They're not. Whaley should have recognized that Rex was not the right man for the job and pounded on the table for his guy. If he had done that, the Pegulas would have certainly listened. He didn't because that's not who he is. And therefore, he's not cut out to be an NFL GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 You act like the Pegulas are a couple of hard-ass "my-way-or-the-highway" people. They're not. Whaley should have recognized that Rex was not the right man for the job and pounded on the table for his guy. If he had done that, the Pegulas would have certainly listened. He didn't because that's not who he is. And therefore, he's not cut out to be an NFL GM. I'd be shocked to think that the Rex move was not forced on Whaley. I'd be even more shocked to think that Whaley didn't express concern. And neither you, nor I, can/will ever know if "the Pegulas would have certainly listened." The notion that "he didn't go up against the new owners (aka - his new bosses) after they hand-picked Rex Ryan as the head coach - therefore he's "not cut out" to be a GM," is ridiculous. One can say that his inability to find talent at QB is a reason he's not cut out for it. But not digging his feet in with the people who sign his paycheck? Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Whaleys legacy will be Rex Ryan and Sammy Watkins. Those were his two most significant moves and they both were failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) dont forget he also couldnt play nice with Marrone. Who knows what would have happened if Marrone didn't head for the hills and disrupt the defense. It looks like the Bills have granted McDermott what Marrone wanted. License to modernize all aspects of the football program and phase out some of the lifers from the kitchen. I don't know what side Whaley fell on, but I would assume it was not on Marrone's (the correct) side Edited October 25, 2017 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Oh dear. Here we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayjent Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Aside from finding a QB, putting together a coherent team-building strategy, his relationships with HC's, and handing out bad contracts, he was a fine GM. Unfortunately he got fired. That was succinct, true and a nice sarcastic touch at the end - love it. The only thing Whaley was good at was acquiring veteran defensive talent from other teams. His offensive moves were so/so with some questionable Free Agency pickups (Percy Harvin, overpaying for Clay) and questionable drafting on Offense. There isn't a starter he drafted currently on the Offense (not counting 2017) (Miller and O'Leary are the only players left on the Roster that he even drafted on Offense). He wasn't a great GM and I don't know what the roles were of others in the Bills FO were in limiting him, but in my opinion that is also a fault to let those limitations be put on you and work within them if that was actually the case as others have suggested who defend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Whaley's issue was never talent scouting - he's a good scout (except, arguably, at QB). His issue is that he couldn't rise above talent scouting to team-building. THIS IS NOT DISPUTABLE LET'S MOVE ON. Problem is team building is on the HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Russ and Pegula's wanted big name Rex Ryan...doubt Whaley was able to stop this Selling yourself to your employer begins day 1. If he had impressed enough from the onset this would have never have been an issue. That's how things work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Selling yourself to your employer begins day 1. If he had impressed enough from the onset this would have never have been an issue. That's how things work. Whaley's problem is/was he was never the main guy. He was always surrounded by those who hired him and he was always grateful to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 He deserves very significant credit - for McDermott and Beane being here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 He deserves very significant credit - for McDermott and Beane being here! And all of our playmakers this season. If it's TT or Shady or Clay or Hughes or whoever. It's still his roster. And if TT wins anything meaningful it's will partially be because Whaley signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I'm not a Whaley fan but he does deserve some credit because Beane was not here to make these picks and all the legwork was done by Whaley and his scouts. However I do believe McD had the final say on each pick regardless of the input given to him by Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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