Lurker Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 It's been interesting seeing so many people not just define patriotism but really trying to own it and enforce their standards on others. Especially when those same people (on both sides) often fall short of their own standards that they are pressing. Agree totally. It's human nature to reflexively think "I'm right, you're wrong." It take's a lot more effort to put yourself in someone else's shoes and say maybe both points of view are valid--and not be offended by "differing" beliefs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Or, perhaps you could just ignore them? Just a thought. What is worse, another thread on a topic that makes you uncomfortable? Or another thread tainted by you babbling your un-informed opinions and general ignorance? Or how many girls he has bagged over the years. I am kind of getting tired of hearing about that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 His protest isn't about his personal plight and never has been. what is it about?.. seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 what is it about?.. seriously Look it up for yourself. It's well documented from the time he began this well over a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 There is a guy in N. Korea---he's insane. And has nukes. That's a big problem. There are a couple of US territories (Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands) that have been utterly flattened and destroyed by hurricaines, plus the Florida Keys and serious damage to Northwest (wildfires) Houston and Florida. Those are problems too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 had it so bad his real parents did not want him he was adopted by a white family who gave him the world yeah and he's oppressed give me a break I wish I was that oppressed Man, I had to take you off ignore to respond to this...but that's just about the worst thing I've ever read on TSW (and that's saying a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 this is not a topic one can ignore. The rest of what you said is opinion. There is no empirical evidence to your opinion, nor is there reason to respond other than simply saying I just don't want to hear about this. Never have. I just don't care about what someone else thinks or feels. Erm, if sincere, wouldn't that make you a psychopath? ("The aspects of core personality often held to be distinctively psychopathic generally show little or no predictive link to crime by themselves", not intended to imply criminality) Though if specific to Shady and Kelly, I rather don't care myself. Both are intensely privileged people who, while they grew up working-class, are by this time many years separated from most people's reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Look it up for yourself. It's well documented from the time he began this well over a year ago. nah.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Did I say something that wasn't true Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 POTUS comments since Friday 16 on pro sports 0 on Puerto Rico and American territory currently devastated. What's Jim Kelly's opinion on that? ( like he is even the least bit relevant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Anyone miss the old days when sports was an escape from the real world? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Very true, but I'm sure the players also expected much of this military backlash. I think much of the backlash is based on jealousy. Von Miller was the highest paid player who kneeled yesterday. He makes more money per game than many families will make in 15 years. Many Americans feel that voicing their opinion on political topics, especially in a controversial way, at their business/employer would have severe repercussions. It's very possible that doing this "on the clock" would result in penalties for Joe Citizen with many replacements available. For Von Miller? There is literally no replacement for him out there on the streets. There are maybe 2 other people in the world that could do what he does as a pass rushing LB. Von will never go hungry or be out of work as long as he wants to play this game. It speaks alot to the state of political conversation in this country when people feel they can't have reasonable discussion about matters that are important to them. Anyway, I do support the message, but I think there are better ways for top tier athletes to unite and create the change they want to see in the world then "stirring the pot" by protesting during the anthem. It's a massive catch-22. You get paid millions and have a platform because of your job to make change. Yet if you actually do something like Kapernick did to bring attention to the injustice that exists with inequality etc.. people will destroy you for using that platform because you have money so apparently your not a loud to say a thing. I have zero issues with what has occurred. I would never kneel myself I have two grandfathers that fought in WWII and a boat load of friends/family that serve in military. So I stand for them in respect, but I believe they fought for the right to protest and have this discourse not a nation that limits it. I do agree with you on the fact if your going to protest with this then do more off the field also (which a lot do but many don't). After the many police shooting both on people and killings of cops in 2016 Snoop Dawg & Ice Cube went and met with the LAPD to create conversation and understanding in response. This is just one example of something players could do as representatives off the field to help be agents of change IMO. It shows a level of respect to the cops but allows for the issues to be discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 POTUS comments since Friday 16 on pro sports 0 on Puerto Rico and American territory currently devastated. What's Jim Kelly's opinion on that? ( like he is even the least bit relevant) This. POTUS needs to be Presidential. Northwest being burnt to a crisp, two American territories devastated, Florida Keys flattened, Florida and Houston still struggling. Let's hear about something that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) I've never understood this concept. How do you verbally "push" your beliefs and views on another person? If we are having a discussion (in person or on a message board), aren't you "pushing" your views and beliefs by simply telling me what you think? That is the nature of a disagreement. One person states their views, hoping to change the other person's mind. And vice-versa. If Jim Kelly or Donald Trump are "pushing" their beliefs on what patriotism is acceptable, then it can be said the players are "pushing" their beliefs on what form of protest is acceptable. I don't entirely disagree and know there's some hypocrisy there on my part. Though I don't stand at a bully pulpit trying to silence opinion, I simply come to a discussion to talk to people I've "known" for years about anger, patience, and tolerance- keep your opinions, and share them... just try not to let this ruin your day or let yourself ruin someone else's because they disagree with you. Edited September 25, 2017 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Erm, if sincere, wouldn't that make you a psychopath? ("The aspects of core personality often held to be distinctively psychopathic generally show little or no predictive link to crime by themselves", not intended to imply criminality) Though if specific to Shady and Kelly, I rather don't care myself. Both are intensely privileged people who, while they grew up working-class, are by this time many years separated from most people's reality. sociopathic, actually. And I've been told i am. They just mistake me for being an arrogant self righteous !@#$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Did I say something that wasn't true Yep. Kap's not saying he's oppressed--far from it. He's trying to call attention to the issue of unequal treatment of people who are citizens of a nation that says "All men are created equal." I hope that's what you were serving in the military for...not for protecting a symbol like the flag, that's simply the 'wrapper on the box', but for the ideals laid out by the Constitution and Bill of Rights--the contents of the box, if you will, and what makes America so special. And thank you for your service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Forgive me if I'm wrong didn't this whole thread start because Jim Kelly thought it was improper for McCoy to stretch during the national anthem so stretching my friend is not the same as sitting there respectfully doing nothing Fair enough. Stretching is a little crass. Shady could have come up with a better solution to his dilemma. But let me add this. During Desert Storm, I had an Arab-Muslim NCO working with me. He felt doubly honored to fight in the First Gulf War because he was serving his country (the USA) while saving his parents' country (Kuwait). And he fought well. After we came back to the States, he ran into some civilian yokels who told him to "go back home." He related to me that he merely told them, "You mean New Jersey?" and carried on with his business, avoiding a confrontation. Many of my friends and family are either vets or still serving now. So I'm sensitive to respecting those in uniform. Many of the people suffering racism in the United States are minority servicemen/woman and veterans like my Jersey NCO. That pisses me off far more than Shady stretching. Despite our progress since the civil rights movement, racism remains a blight on America. I don't think kneeling - or stretching - is the answer but I give the players some credit for trying to start a meaningful dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) It's a massive catch-22. You get paid millions and have a platform because of your job to make change. Yet if you actually do something like Kapernick did to bring attention to the injustice that exists with inequality etc.. people will destroy you for using that platform because you have money so apparently your not a loud to say a thing. I have zero issues with what has occurred. I would never kneel myself I have two grandfathers that fought in WWII and a boat load of friends/family that serve in military. So I stand for them in respect, but I believe they fought for the right to protest and have this discourse not a nation that limits it. I do agree with you on the fact if your going to protest with this then do more off the field also (which a lot do but many don't). After the many police shooting both on people and killings of cops in 2016 Snoop Dawg & Ice Cube went and met with the LAPD to create conversation and understanding in response. This is just one example of something players could do as representatives off the field to help be agents of change IMO. It shows a level of respect to the cops but allows for the issues to be discussed. Kaepernick just isn't worth it for the teams, that much is clear. If he was a better QB, no question, he would be employed. The NFL is not exactly a church group. Talent trumps all. I think many of the players are getting involved and creating change, Brandon Marshall met with the Denver PD Chief last year and there was review of their use of force policy from that conversation. Edited September 25, 2017 by TheElectricCompany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Actually, he is the skin color more likely to be shot by police in the same circumstances. Incorrect. Numerically larger number not.equal.to probability (likelihood). Although to stir the pot before we blast off to PPP, here's a study by a prize-winning Black economist that says in Houston, at least, you may be correct. sociopathic, actually. And I've been told i am. They just mistake me for being an arrogant self righteous !@#$. Wait, can't you be both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) This. POTUS needs to be Presidential. Northwest being burnt to a crisp, two American territories devastated, Florida Keys flattened, Florida and Houston still struggling. Let's hear about something that matters. IMHO, I think the administration has handled the texas and FLA situation very well... because he isnt getting crucified about them in the MM Edited September 25, 2017 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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