Bill_with_it Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Discerning the difference between must/shall and should is hard man. No its not. Little ridiculous to have a rule if no one is going to follow it. Or one could have a bit of common sense and realize the rule was written that way to allow players and staff on crutches that are on the sidelines not fine able. But you now rules and intent are hard to understand man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 No its not. Little ridiculous to have a rule if no one is going to follow it. Or one could have a bit of common sense and realize the rule was written that way to allow players and staff on crutches that are on the sidelines not fine able. But you now rules and intent are hard to understand man. It's not a rule. Rules must be followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I protest against every single moron that kneels during our national Anthem 🇺🇸 Is that ok ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) It's not a rule. Rules must be followed. It is a rule its in the game operations manual. It was talkes about yesterday.A league apokesman said they werent going to fine anyone for violating it as of yesterday. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/09/24/were-not-going-to-play-politics-steelers-mike-tomlin-says-team-wont-take-the-field-for-anthem/?utm_term=.1e60a3cbad61 Edited September 26, 2017 by Bill_with_it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I hear you, I was a Marine and get that part. But one has nothing to do with the other. My problem is the selective outrage. Telling people not to "disrespect the flag" ends up being just another vehicle to shout people of color down. They have a legitimate grip, one I support fully. They are treated differently than those of us that are white. I say selective because in order to shut down decent "we" say it's disrespectful to the country and our troops. Welp, I can go to Wal Mart and buy a pair of star spangled boxers and a 30 pack of flag covered Budweiser. I mean I know nothing says I love my country more than sweat stains all over the stars and stripes from peoples nether regions. Or the drunk dude pissing in the sink in the bathroom during the anthem. I fully support what they are doing because the cause in my opinion is just. That's why I chose to serve. To defend those that need it. That is not why everyone does. Just like white people or brown people Veterans are not a monolithic group. My point is simply that we should remove the hyperbole Simply have the the discussion at hand. I think it takes a lot of guts to do what Kapernick did. He had a lot to loose and he lost it. He can be wrong and everyone has a right to agree or not. But this issue is not going to go away. I was of opinion that Kaepernick was wrong - not about protesting but by making a distraction when he was at work. I did not believe it added to what he was being paid for. The pigs on his socks were another example of this so it was not just the flag. But as the quoted states commercial interests use the flag in sales promotions (that bothers me more than protesters), as part of design of packages (saw a package of "All American" beer with package made to look like a flag), etc. I believe however what most teams this weekend were about the teams - there was a distraction being pushed by the Twitter King and they reacted as team and that was better than cowboy protests or massive attacks because teams have no interest in signing Kaepernick. They united against an external source and that is a good thing. Kaepernick. after his weakening of his game including his diet changes which have measurably changed his physique and performance, needs to prove the negatives he brings to team is worth the positives he can bring. Likewise with Jim Kelly I think right now the owners should ask him to stay away from sideline and if they are paying a consulting fee stop doing so. He is a distraction to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 If the President decided to talk about bringing back conscription, how many kneeling NFL players would suddenly become " Muslim" ? What the h*** does that have to do with conscription? I'm quite certain there are fine American service men and women who are Muslim. Stuff like this is everything that is wrong right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 It's not a rule. Rules must be followed. Haven't you ever read the Ten commandments? Thou should probably not kill? Thou might not want to covet thy neighbor's wife? It is suggested thou might not wish to steal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 It is a rule its in the game operations manual. It was talkes about yesterday. A league apokesman said they werent going to fine anyone for violating it as of yesterday. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/09/24/were-not-going-to-play-politics-steelers-mike-tomlin-says-team-wont-take-the-field-for-anthem/?utm_term=.1e60a3cbad61 Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses. The key word in this instance is may. Words matter. Haven't you ever read the Ten commandments? Thou should probably not kill? Thou might not want to covet thy neighbor's wife? It is suggested thou might not wish to steal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 We are seeing them due to the 24/7 media cycle , social media and politically driven news . It doesn't mean there are more of them occurring and the statistical eveidence doesn't support the narrative. That one to me is a stunner. I haven't watched it I'm taking your account as fact. I watched the dash cam video from the Castile shooting. I'm not sure if it has been made available to the public. Unfortunately the guy reached after being told not to. I felt the Officer and the way he handled it was clearly not cut out for Police work. He was fired. But his reaction was not criminal. There are certain protections in use of force that need to be there for obvious reasons. The Cops have to have an advantage. Not everyone is capable of being a cop, but it takes an unreasonable response by the letter of the law to be found criminal. Trials and juries. I'm not sure of a better way. That's why instructions are given , clearly. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback. But what you describe is baffling to me how an acquittal could result. Police shooting per annum have been fairly consistent . I think I know the Castile shooting - he announced that he had a concealed weapon and a permit to have one. He said he was reaching for his ID? If he wanted to shoot the cop over a broken brake light, why announce that he has a gun? And he obviously didn't pull out a gun before the cop unloaded into him. I'm sorry, but these incidents shouldn't be death sentences. And to make a black/white comparison = The Chad Kelly incident where he threatened to go to his car, get his gun and shoot the place up. I think he ended up going home that night, he certainly wasn't shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses. The key word in this instance is may. Words matter. Dude you keep saying that it doesnt chamge the fact that it is a rule that is clearly meant to be followed and it is in the game operations manual. Whether or not they get fined is up to the league. Its clearly a rule that is written with the intent of being followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Haven't you ever read the Ten commandments? Thou should probably not kill? Thou might not want to covet thy neighbor's wife? It is suggested thou might not wish to steal? depends on what your neighbors wife looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devldog131 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Surely arguing that Tamir !@#$ing Rice had somehow provoked his own shooting deserves some kind of ban, no?At no point did I argue that he provoked his own shooting. The poster I responded to emphasized the "toy gun." I just refuted that inaccuracy and explained how difficult it can be to differentiate between a pellet gun styled after a real gun and a real gun. At what point in my post did I even remotely indicate any belief that he provoked his own shooting? Nobody, even those who have seen the video, know all of the circumstances surrounding the events that took place. The officer was responding to multiple 911 reports of a person brandishing a gun and, upon arrival saw something that corroborated those reports. Was he supposed to wait until he had been shot or shot at to establish if it was a real gun? Clearly he felt his life was threatened. It's not my place to judge whether or not that feeling was justified. Not one of us, even the most highly trained and experienced, know how we would respond in that situation. I am not assigning blame to any party because neither I, nor anyone else on this board, was present that moment or have all of the requisite information necessary to do so. Edited September 26, 2017 by devldog131 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Dude you keep saying that it doesnt chamge the fact that it is a rule that is clearly meant to be followed and it is in the game operations manual. Whether or not they get fined is up to the league. Its clearly a rule that is written with the intent of being followed. Maybe the cops will start shooting the black players for not standing - That would be ironic, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 It is a rule its in the game operations manual. It was talkes about yesterday. A league apokesman said they werent going to fine anyone for violating it as of yesterday. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/09/24/were-not-going-to-play-politics-steelers-mike-tomlin-says-team-wont-take-the-field-for-anthem/?utm_term=.1e60a3cbad61 You realize your own link refutes your stance right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Kaepernick just isn't worth it for the teams, that much is clear. If he was a better QB, no question, he would be employed. The NFL is not exactly a church group. Talent trumps all. I think many of the players are getting involved and creating change, Brandon Marshall met with the Denver PD Chief last year and there was review of their use of force policy from that conversation. This action by Brandon Marshall is an action example of a positive action which I think the NFL players should participate in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Dude you keep saying that it doesnt chamge the fact that it is a rule that is clearly meant to be followed and it is in the game operations manual. Whether or not they get fined is up to the league. Its clearly a rule that is written with the intent of being followed. Sorry, you're simply incorrect. Rules don't state should and you may be fined if you don't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 At no point did I argue that he provoked his own shooting. The poster I responded to emphasized the "toy gun." I just refuted that inaccuracy and explained how difficult it can be to differentiate between a pellet gun styled after a real gun and a real gun. At what point in my post did I even remotely indicate any belief that he provoked his own shooting? Nobody, even those who have seen the video, know all of the circumstances surrounding the events that took place. The officer was responding to multiple 911 reports of a person brandishing a gun and, upon arrival saw something the corroborated tell reports. Was he supposed to wait until he had been shot or shot at to establish if it was a real gun? Clearly he felt his life was threatened. It's not my place to judge whether or not that feeling was justified. Not one of us, even the most highly trained and experienced, know how we would respond in that situation. I am not assigning blame to any party because neither I, nor anyone else on this board, was present that moment or have all of the requisite information necessary to do so. I think you are trying to be reasonable during this discussion, but your reasons for excusing the cops actions are total BS. Just because someone called 911 doesn't justify the shooting, the choice of waiting to be shot or shot at before reacting should not be the only choice. I am certain there are other procedures in place besides, shoot first ask questions later. If he felt his life was threatened he is in the wrong line of business. I remember the female cop that shot the black guy whose car stalled said she was never so scared in her life when she shot him. She was with 2 other armed cops about a hundred feet or so from an unarmed man. If this is her most frightened moment of her life, she shouldn't be a cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 More of a guideline than actual rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) I think I know the Castile shooting - he announced that he had a concealed weapon and a permit to have one. He said he was reaching for his ID? If he wanted to shoot the cop over a broken brake light, why announce that he has a gun? And he obviously didn't pull out a gun before the cop unloaded into him. I'm sorry, but these incidents shouldn't be death sentences. Did you see the ridiculous reasoning used by the cop in that case? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/killed-castile-pot-smell-made-fear-life-article-1.3265188 Former Officer Jeronimo Yanez told investigators a day after the fatal July 6 shooting that he was "hit with a odor of burning marijuana" after he pulled over Castile, his girlfriend and her then-four-year-old daughter - an alleged smell he used in justifying why hed put seven bullets in the St. Paul man. "I thought, I was gonna die and I thought if he's, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five-year-old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing then what, what care does he give about me," Yanez told the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. The officer, claiming Castiles wide set nose had seemed to match up with that of an armed robbery suspect, also speculated that Castiles firearm possession might be linked to the marijuana smell. "Being that ... the inside of the vehicle smelled like marijuana um I didnt know if he was keeping it on him for protection, for, from a, a drug dealer or anything like that," he said. Naturally the cop wasn't found guilty of manslaughter. Edited September 26, 2017 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 More of a guideline than actual rule the pirate code? Did you see the ridiculous reasoning used by the cop in that case? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/killed-castile-pot-smell-made-fear-life-article-1.3265188 Naturally the cop wasn't found guilty of manslaughter. yeah, it's really disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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