Billsmovinup Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 When he's healthy he's elite. How about letting him play a few game this year before we cut him? I bet if you were the Falcons GM you would have sent Julio Jones packing. The excuse making never stops. While we are at it lets wait another 17 years before we critcize the team for continuosly missing the playoffs. Its not natural to do some of the things Sammy does, stopping on a dime,reversing directions, and his body/ feet pay the price IMO. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 The excuse making never stops. While we are at it lets wait another 17 years before we critcize the team for continuosly missing the playoffs. See above. I understand the skepticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I understand the skepticism. Its a fair cop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 The excuse making never stops. While we are at it lets wait another 17 years before we critcize the team for continuosly missing the playoffs. I can honestly say that I've been there, as a fan. I was there for many, many years. I gained infamy with the excuses I made for EJ. I did the same for Trent and Fitz and JP Losman. I blamed injuries. I blamed coaching. It wasn't until last year that I'd finally convinced myself that all of the excuses were crap. The Bills just suck. They've sucked for the last 17 years and it's a team effort to suck that long. It's not negativity, in my eyes. It's realism. I feel badly for those who call me names and say I'm not a fan, or tell me "go root for another team if you hate this one so much." I used to be one of them, so I know how it feels. The Bills will get better and I'll continue to support them for as long as they continue to suck. But making excuses for individuals ... no effing way. To stay on topic, Watkins ... he's shown flashes and he's proven that he has potential. The one thing he has NOT done is make an "okay" QB "good." He's had a couple of them. The truly elite WRs make their QBs better. He simply hasn't done that and it is my opinion that it's because he doesn't want to/doesn't feel as if he should have to. That, to me, is Sam Watkins' biggest problem: he's selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I can honestly say that I've been there, as a fan. I was there for many, many years. I gained infamy with the excuses I made for EJ. I did the same for Trent and Fitz and JP Losman. I blamed injuries. I blamed coaching. It wasn't until last year that I'd finally convinced myself that all of the excuses were crap. The Bills just suck. They've sucked for the last 17 years and it's a team effort to suck that long. It's not negativity, in my eyes. It's realism. I feel badly for those who call me names and say I'm not a fan, or tell me "go root for another team if you hate this one so much." I used to be one of them, so I know how it feels. The Bills will get better and I'll continue to support them for as long as they continue to suck. But making excuses for individuals ... no effing way. To stay on topic, Watkins ... he's shown flashes and he's proven that he has potential. The one thing he has NOT done is make an "okay" QB "good." He's had a couple of them. The truly elite WRs make their QBs better. He simply hasn't done that and it is my opinion that it's because he doesn't want to/doesn't feel as if he should have to. That, to me, is Sam Watkins' biggest problem: he's selfish. to stay on topic as best as i can. I have teetered with Watkins commitment honestly. He has seems aloof perhaps with TT. But i will not fall into that pit of suspicious thinking. I have resolved that with my thinking about what Rex did or did not do. Feeling he lost the team and set them back as individuals and as a whole allows me to wash away the pain and suffering from the last two seasons. And allow a fresh start and eyes wide open perspective for the up coming season. That being said, Watkins does have something to prove before he can garner respect from me. Like i said Gug, I hope Bills are forced to pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) ....NASCAR'S "turning left" for $15-$25 mil a year is THE best gig......sure 500 miles equates to one helluva level of body endurance, but that number ain't too bad.....back to Watkins....produce in 2017 and demonstrate that you are 100% healthy and the $$$ will be there either at OBD or elsewhere...... Edited July 4, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Exactly why the whole 'they pay more taxes' argument fails on several different levels. Of COURSE the top earners pay more; as of 2013 the average American worker had to put in an entire month to earn what an average CEO earns in one hour. The bottom 40% of earners (that's 40% of the entire country, 137 million US citizens) own less than 1% of the nation's overall wealth. The discrepancy in distribution is itself enough to justify a progressive tax on top earners, and that's without taking into account the simple fact that when you adjust for cost of living, a 20% tax on an income of $25,000 is far more restrictive than, say, a 45% tax on incomes exceeding $500,000. People have a way of looking at taxation in very broad terms. I think, much like physics, you need different methods for looking at the very small end of the scale (like quantum mechanics) of earners and the very large (where classical physics would suffice). Fails on several levels? I'm sorry but you've completely switched the argument. This was never about who should pay what in terms of taxes, I merely pointed to the fact that wealthy people do in fact contribute A LOT of money to what you enjoy on a daily basis via taxes. I have not only looked at "income tax" but at broader taxation. Income tax is just one part of total tax burden. Burdens of the state are increasingly being shifted to the middle class and the poor. The tax on consumption for instance - the sales taxes have only been going one way in the last 40-50 years, and that's up, along with "user fees". The vast majority of us have to consume our earnings. And when we consume, we pay tax, AGAIN. While the wealthy, consumption is but a tiny fraction of their earnings. Most of their earnings go into investments, which are not taxed until they "cash out" the earnings. Those are the shifting of burdens of the state from the rich to the poor. If you don't get that many are being screwed for the sake of a few, then this morass you and I live in (yes, what happens in US impacts Canada because we have to "follow" your policies so that we don't lose rich in our country to yours which you apparently accept with ease!) will continue to get worse. The worst economic crises in the world in the past century was brought about by the "excesses" of the rich living at the expense of the vast majority. You remember the "roaring twenties"? And everything was great and grand then right? Guess what followed that. Yes, the great depression, and WW2. We were at the cusp of a major global economic collapse in 2008. It took unimagined action by governments around the world to save the world economy. But the saving didn't fix the issues underlying it. The root of which lay in loose regulations and structural economic imbalances. The more wealth is concentrated, the less productive the economy becomes, which forces the Fed and central banks to keep interest rates uber low, the greater the risks super wealthy are allowed to take with the greater wealth they have. Which leads to one too many excesses in one aspect of the economy (housing was the last time) that led to its inevitable collapse. And the cycle repeats. While the wealthy will lose some of their wealth in those crashes along with bruising of their ego, they never lose their shirt. But the minions like you and me (if you are one), lose not just shirts but homes and our very way of life. It's inherently unfair and in a democracy, not a monarchy, why is this kind of "rigged system" tolerated? 2016 was a threshold year. Trump rode that resentment (very ironic, because he benefits from the root cause) in the US. Trudeau in Canada rode that resentment to a surprise win. But change has been slow in Canada. I do not see changes at all in the US. IF things don't change, change will come like breaking of a Dam. And we'll all be damned. Again, ignoring the point that was made. This isn't about what is far or unfair for the rich to be taxed. That's not the point I was making. This was all about contribution, which they do contribute.... A LOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigs Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 What they're paid has absolutely nothing to do with how dangerous the sport is; that's an asinine argument to make. Every league, hell every worker, should be entitled to 50% profit; no more, no less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) Ironic that you tell me I'm "sticking up for billionaires" while you defend a 24 year old multi millionaire who sounds ungrateful. I'll never forget Sammy posting his 9 K worth of chips at a North Carolina casino while he was injured. I wonder how much he lost before he won? If many of these pro athletes would learn better spending habits they wouldn't have to worry about going broke.Wow, you really hate the guy, don't you? For going to a casino? If he's serious about football you'd think he'd cloister himself in a monastery and self-flaggelate. I think his point is his injury. Players have short windows to cash in the value of their talents. Meanwhile he, along with his fellow players, make 32 billionaires even richer, and in your opinion they doesn't deserve to be compensated appropriately, because all they'll do is gamble? Edited July 5, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Watkins can talk when he does something for one whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Watkins can talk when he does something for one whole season. ...with the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 What they're paid has absolutely nothing to do with how dangerous the sport is; that's an asinine argument to make. Every league, hell every worker, should be entitled to 50% profit; no more, no less Not true. The players are able to demand - and receive what they do because of the relative scarcity of the labor. ( i.e. those with the ability to play the game at the highest level). The dangers of the sport may be part of it, but there are more dangerous jobs. Jobs with a greater possibility of injury- even fatal injury. Every worker does not possess that rare skill, therefore will not be " entitled" to receive that level of company revenues as a percentage. The owners know their business is run on a very specific and rare labor force , and would not be the same product without it. That's what's unique in the business world about a sports league. That said, it's incredible the amount of vitriolic commentary Watkins tweet to his fellow workers has generated. These guys just live in a different world than the vast majority of us. A lot of people need to get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Watkins can talk when he does something for one whole season. Last time I checked, this is America. Watkins can talk or tweet whenever he wants to. He wasn't tweeting to fans. Regardless, there was nothing earth shattering or offensive about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I think you gathered his self indulgent point concisely Have along time Bills fan Buddy at work that mentioned his footwork, and inferred he is talking about Sammy's ability to cut and burst. The kid has not been right. But that is not to discount the way he has been used. If I were to guess, his plays as a decoy have been based on his injury He sure looked right on this day back in 2015 in KC: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buffalo-bills-kansas-city-chiefs-sammy-watkins-touchdown-week-12-112915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KermitMcDermott Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Who doesn't want to get paid more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 @spotrac There are now 118 active NBA players with an average salary of at least $10M. 39 at $20M+, 21 at $25M+ http://bit.ly/1WmZJqk @DanGrazianoESPN Why Sammy Watkins could be right about the market-changing power of his 2014 NFL draft class: https://t.co/ljLuVvsGR0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 This may be the topic that I feel strongest about that we discuss and for the life of me can't understand the other side. The people generating the revue in every company are the highest paid. It is no different here it's just the numbers are so large we can't wrap our heads around them. Honest question though, do people really believe that the players should be paid less than 48.5% of the money that the NFL makes?!? If you removed all of the players how much money would the league make? Now we can all squabble about which players deserve which percentage but the argument that players make too much money is beyond asinine. It's totally uninformed. The league wouldn't make $12.5B (or whatever it is) a year without players!! I understand your side but the owners do take all the risk especially in the NBA plus it's not like their only overhead is the players. They have promotions, ticket sellers, parking lot attendants, maintenance and upkeep, janitors, security, etc. Also this is not the only source of income as some get endorsement deals. I am not fully against the players getting paid more though. If they pay more though they need to figure out how to adjust the salary cap. The Warriors are going to be slammed in a year and you look at a player like Otto Porter that if the Wizards want to keep him they have to 25 million a year with what a $125 million cap? All that for a 12 point a game player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) I understand your side but the owners do take all the risk especially in the NBA plus it's not like their only overhead is the players. They have promotions, ticket sellers, parking lot attendants, maintenance and upkeep, janitors, security, etc. Also this is not the only source of income as some get endorsement deals. I am not fully against the players getting paid more though. If they pay more though they need to figure out how to adjust the salary cap. The Warriors are going to be slammed in a year and you look at a player like Otto Porter that if the Wizards want to keep him they have to 25 million a year with what a $125 million cap? All that for a 12 point a game player. Owners are not the best athletes in the world and when a star athlete signs on to a team in many instances his future salary depends on how well a team is managed. Most players in any sport are drawn to winning organizations because they are goal oriented and want to win a championship. Players do take risks in my humble opinion. Edited July 5, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I understand your side but the owners do take all the risk especially in the NBA plus it's not like their only overhead is the players. They have promotions, ticket sellers, parking lot attendants, maintenance and upkeep, janitors, security, etc. Also this is not the only source of income as some get endorsement deals. I am not fully against the players getting paid more though. If they pay more though they need to figure out how to adjust the salary cap. The Warriors are going to be slammed in a year and you look at a player like Otto Porter that if the Wizards want to keep him they have to 25 million a year with what a $125 million cap? All that for a 12 point a game player. Those expenses are subsidized in many ways through league orchestrated deals. You can buy the Carolina Panthers tomorrow and be profitable without doing a single thing. The league covers your overhead and then some. There isn't a lot of risk (specifically in the NFL). I don't disagree that the system is a little flawed in the NBA. Otto Porter is making $25M a year with a $99M "salary cap." That's pretty crazy. The luxury tax obviously hasn't been as punitive as some small markets hoped. These teams are generating so much revenue that they can justify paying it. The repeater tax may start to inflict some pain on owners like Gilbert and Lacob over the next few years. We won't see change until that happens though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 How about they pay players less and lower ticket prices!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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