Tiberius Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 The myth is believing that we still live in a functioning republic and democracy when every bit of reality shows us that we do not. We live in an oligarchy. And low information voters who are more swayed by partisan rhetoric and who care more about "their team winning" than they care about restoring the republic are the key to its continuation. Well, can't it be both? Oligarchs have been manipulating politics for thousands of years. Democracy functions at many levels of government, but ya the oligarchs--global oligarchs--sure pull a lot of strings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 getting sickened unto death about this, but.... this should have been done back in December with a truly neutral Special Prosecutor. and if the Prosecutor comes back with nothing, can we end this please? Actually, I would like to see Mueller do with Trump what Comey did with Hillary. Mueller could explain that there is clear evidence Trump violated a number of statutes, and in fact acted with extreme carelessness, and further explain how it's very likely that there was collusion with Russia. But, y'know, we really can't say he did it intentionally, so we're going to drop the whole thing. I'd actually pay to watch the left digest that press conference. They'd be schitting purple Twinkies from San Francisco to Macungie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Actually, I would like to see Mueller do with Trump what Comey did with Hillary. Mueller could explain that there is clear evidence Trump violated a number of statutes, and in fact acted with extreme carelessness, and further explain how it's very likely that there was collusion with Russia. But, y'know, we really can't say he did it intentionally, so we're going to drop the whole thing. I'd actually pay to watch the left digest that press conference. They'd be schitting purple Twinkies from San Francisco to Macungie. I don't know, if I were the Trump people I'd be screaming bloody murder that Mueller is too close to Comey to be fair. And I'm sure he will at some point. Mueller is a serious threat to Trump, it's like Rod Rosenstein is fu king Trump over for using hm as an excuse to fire Comey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Well, can't it be both? Oligarchs have been manipulating politics for thousands of years. Democracy functions at many levels of government, but ya the oligarchs--global oligarchs--sure pull a lot of strings No, it cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 No, it cannot. Manipulating voters? They still vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Manipulating voters? They still vote You're suggesting that the actual form of government is irrelevant so long as it appears to be democratic. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 You're suggesting that the actual form of government is irrelevant so long as it appears to be democratic. Sigh. No, that you can have a democracy where voters get manipulated some of the time but when it comes down to it they can still vote and change things. Worst system aside from all others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 No, that you can have a democracy where voters get manipulated some of the time but when it comes down to it they can still vote and change things. Worst system aside from all others That is no longer what we have. Which is my point. That suggests we still live in a democratic republic. We do not. We've codified bribery into our legislative and executive branches, made corporations people and speech money. The only people who can affect change within the system as it currently operates are those with enormous resources. That's not a republic. That's certainly not democratic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 That is no longer what we have. Which is my point. That suggests we still live in a democratic republic. We do not. We've codified bribery into our legislative and executive branches, made corporations people and speech money. The only people who can affect change within the system as it currently operates are those with enormous resources. That's not a republic. That's certainly not democratic. Why are you arguing with him? Just point out that he just admitted that Russian hacking of the election doesn't matter, then let him flop around screaming "obfuscation!" or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Makes you wonder how things might have been had little Adolph got the attention he so obviously needed. Adolf got TOO MUCH attention as a child, that was his problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Which is my point. That suggests we still live in a democratic republic. We do not. We've codified bribery into our legislative and executive branches, made corporations people and speech money. The only people who can affect change within the system as it currently operates are those with enormous resources. All democracies have suffered from oligarchical influence, be it in the form of people with money or common interest groups banding together. The Romans and Greeks made your complaint, and in 5000 years, democracies will still be making it. Chief Grog once said to Medicine Man Ug that he couldn't believe the neadrethals wanted more mammoth meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 After Mueller, Trump Critics Worry: Maybe There’s No Scandal by Jason Willick Original Article Eli Lake is right: The DOJ’s appointment of widely-respected former prosecutor Robert Mueller to lead the special inquiry into the Trump campaign’s potential collusion with Russia is a reprieve for a Trump Administration in crisis—a reprieve that it will almost certainly squander, but a reprieve nonetheless. How do we know? Because the responses from Trump’s most dogged critics on the Russia question betray a kind of anxiety about the Mueller appointment—an anxiety that the no-nonsense law enforcement wise man will lower the temperature in Washington without actually uncovering enough damaging material to bring down the President. All dressed up (see pink hats) and nowhere to shout obscenities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 After Mueller, Trump Critics Worry: Maybe There’s No Scandal by Jason Willick Original Article Eli Lake is right: The DOJ’s appointment of widely-respected former prosecutor Robert Mueller to lead the special inquiry into the Trump campaign’s potential collusion with Russia is a reprieve for a Trump Administration in crisis—a reprieve that it will almost certainly squander, but a reprieve nonetheless. How do we know? Because the responses from Trump’s most dogged critics on the Russia question betray a kind of anxiety about the Mueller appointment—an anxiety that the no-nonsense law enforcement wise man will lower the temperature in Washington without actually uncovering enough damaging material to bring down the President. All dressed up (see pink hats) and nowhere to shout obscenities. Vegas should have an over/under for those chances! This story has more drips everyday than a wet towel Why are you arguing with him? Just point out that he just admitted that Russian hacking of the election doesn't matter, then let him flop around screaming "obfuscation!" or something. You are so butt hurt I exposed your pointless obfuscating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) Actually, I would like to see Mueller do with Trump what Comey did with Hillary. Mueller could explain that there is clear evidence Trump violated a number of statutes, and in fact acted with extreme carelessness, and further explain how it's very likely that there was collusion with Russia. But, y'know, we really can't say he did it intentionally, so we're going to drop the whole thing. I'd actually pay to watch the left digest that press conference. They'd be schitting purple Twinkies from San Francisco to Macungie. I'm hoping they name Trump an unindicted co conspirator. That is no longer what we have. Which is my point. That suggests we still live in a democratic republic. We do not. We've codified bribery into our legislative and executive branches, made corporations people and speech money. The only people who can affect change within the system as it currently operates are those with enormous resources. That's not a republic. That's certainly not democratic. One dollar. One vote. Edited May 19, 2017 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 One dollar. One vote. A radio add is protected speech, a newspaper article is protected speech, a pamphlet passed out on the street is protected speech, a speaking engagement is protected speech. The simple truth is that these mediums all have different costs associated with them, and that some individuals may not be able to afford to speak in all mediums, but that does not invalidate their protected nature. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 A radio add is protected speech, a newspaper article is protected speech, a pamphlet passed out on the street is protected speech, a speaking engagement is protected speech. The simple truth is that these mediums all have different costs associated with them, and that some individuals may n:ot be able to afford to speak in all mediums, but that does not invalidate their protected nature. End of story. what about radio subtraction or radio division? Is that protected like radio add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 All democracies have suffered from oligarchical influence, be it in the form of people with money or common interest groups banding together. The Romans and Greeks made your complaint, and in 5000 years, democracies will still be making it. Chief Grog once said to Medicine Man Ug that he couldn't believe the neadrethals wanted more mammoth meat. Not shocking you've completely missed the point. The point isn't that money corrupts and always has. It's that our system of government has changed without our consent. That's not the same thing as "influence". We no longer live in the democratic republic outlined by the Constitution. This is not even up for debate as it's a fact. We've codified bribery into the legislative and executive branches, increased the authoritarian scope of the presidency, made corporations people, made money equal to speech, created the world's most advanced surveillance state to keep the plebs in line (and more importantly, to blackmail the elected officials who might dare to march out of step), and completely disenfranchised the majority of American citizens... all within the last 16 years. All without a vote, a constitutional amendment, or even a national discussion on the topic. Your defense is, "that's how it's always been in history and how it always will be" -- which is not only missing the point, it's dangerously naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Good to see Joe Biden come forward this week for 2020. If he had run in 2016 he probably would have won, would be a good President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Good to see Joe Biden come forward this week for 2020. If he had run in 2016 he probably would have won, would be a good President. What an alternate universe this country is in. Crazy Uncle Joe, "neighborhood guy" Joe, returns us to normal. How effed up is that! This is one messed up scandal ridden e-ride ticket we are on and just at 100 days in. As the Trumpster fireS rage! Just think... He could have bought the Bills and moved them out of the country to Toronto... We as Bills fans could have been the sacrificial anode (not like we aren't already) for the whole damn country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Good to see Joe Biden come forward this week for 2020. If he had run in 2016 he probably would have won, would be a good President. He's a moron. Just like his candidate predecessor, he voted for a war that has caused the death of over a million brown people and thousands of Americans. He got snookered by George Bush and Dick Cheney. What does that say about his judgement? You make a mistake this bad on the job, you get no do overs. Go away Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts