bdutton Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 56 minutes ago, Tiberius said: "You betrayed that flag" Except that, you know, he didn't actually. So, there's that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, bdutton said: Except that, you know, he didn't actually. So, there's that. The judge said that, not Tibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, peace out said: The judge said that, not Tibs. Everyone is aware that the judge said it also that he apologized for it. Not Tibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, peace out said: The judge said that, not Tibs. Then he came back with a mia culpa and apologized, admitting he had the facts wrong. Feel free though to make the initial false accusation the headline and bury the correct story on page 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdutton Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 23 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: And of course I have a meeting in ten minutes.... (Now that the MSM got their "Treason!" talking points and ran with them... the judge walks them back. Which story will get more ink? The first, erroneous one? Or the accurate one?) 3 minutes ago, peace out said: The judge said that, not Tibs. You need to be a lot more honest about the context and further backtracking the judge made before quoting me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, B-Man said: Everyone is aware that the judge said it also that he apologized for it. Not Tibs The judge apologized for the treason remark, which came after and in a different context than his claim that Flynn betrayed the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, peace out said: The judge apologized for the treason remark, which came after and in a different context than his claim that Flynn betrayed the flag. Go watch the Will Chamberlain scope posted above. It'll clear it up. He wasn't saying Flynn betrayed the flag, he said you could make the argument he betrayed the flag. This wasn't an admonishment of Flynn, but a clarification of the charges and the implications as he was trying to get Flynn to withdraw his plea. ****************************** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: he said you could make the argument he betrayed the flag. This wasn't an admonishment of Flynn, but a clarification of the charges and the implications as he was trying to get Flynn to withdraw his plea. Your right - that's exactly what was said. The bolded is your opinion and not a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, peace out said: Your right - that's exactly what was said. The bolded is your opinion and not a fact. No, it's a fact. He asked for him to do so several times. He then proceeded to lay out the scenarios Flynn was facing if he did so, including "arguably" (his word/qualifier) "betraying the flag". That's said to a man who's served his country for 33 years as a wake up call. This was proven later when he got the SCO to admit Logan Act was the most they could hang on Flynn: "that's what I wanted to hear"... Sullivan knows how little the Logan Act has been prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, peace out said: The judge apologized for the treason remark, which came after and in a different context than his claim that Flynn betrayed the flag. This is false................................again . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: No, it's a fact. He asked for him to do so several times. He then proceeded to lay out the scenarios Flynn was facing if he did so, including "arguably" (his word/qualifier) "betraying the flag". That's said to a man who's served his country for 33 years as a wake up call. This was proven later when he got the SCO to admit Logan Act was the most they could hang on Flynn: "that's what I wanted to hear"... Sullivan knows how little the Logan Act has been prosecuted. It's not a fact - just like the liberal talking point on the other side is not a fact Get back to me after sentencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, peace out said: It's not a fact - just like the liberal talking point on the other side is not a fact Get back to me after sentencing. How is it not a fact that the judge was trying to get Flynn to withdraw his plea when he asked him precisely that - not once or twice or three times, but several times? He even ordered a recess so Flynn could consult with his attorneys about that very question. Sullivan said he was uncomfortable sentencing someone for a crime they are not guilty of - that's how he began the hearing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, peace out said: The judge apologized for the treason remark, which came after and in a different context than his claim that Flynn betrayed the flag. You are so blind to the truth. So dishonest, how do you expect anything you say to be believed by anyone other than your leftwing nutjobs? Stop the damn lieing! For God's sake you're an adult!!! Act like one for a change!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 "Arguably, that undermines everything this flag over here stands for. Arguably, you sold your country out.” Now, what lie came out from the White House over this? He was entrapped by FBI? You clowns will try--and fail--to call out me, a humble, honest poster, yet let the WH say anything. Clowns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 @Turbosrrgoodhere ya go *****. Bring your Trump butthurt feelings here. I'll engage you after my workout and climbing lster. @Gugnytoo ***** to ever try his ***** here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: "Arguably, that undermines everything this flag over here stands for. Arguably, you sold your country out.” "Arguably" does not mean it happened, nor does it mean the judge is saying that's what happened. Words matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: How is it not a fact that the judge was trying to get Flynn to withdraw his plea when he asked him precisely that - not once or twice or three times, but several times? He even ordered a recess so Flynn could consult with his attorneys about that very question. Sullivan said he was uncomfortable sentencing someone for a crime they are not guilty of - that's how he began the hearing... The judge began the hearing like that because Flynn's lawyers submitted a pre-trial memo claiming there was FBI misconduct in the interview and that Flynn was entrapped. The judge gave Flynn the option to withdraw his plea because of what that pre-trial memo said. Flynn and his lawyers then said under oath, multiple times, the FBI did not entrap Flynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, peace out said: The judge began the hearing like that because Flynn's lawyers submitted a pre-trial memo claiming there was FBI misconduct in the interview and that Flynn was entrapped. The judge gave Flynn the option to withdraw his plea because of what that pre-trial memo said. Flynn and his lawyers then said under oath, multiple times, the FBI did not entrap Flynn. He began the hearing like that, yes. And had he left it there after Flynn initially refused you'd be 100% correct in the belief I was reading into the judge's words and actions too much. Unquestionably that's true. But he didn't leave it there. He kept returning to it, clarifying that he was not comfortable sentencing someone for a crime they did not commit (not that they said they didn't commit, that they did not commit). The judge asked several times for a recess, for a second opinion from outside counsel. It was more than just due diligence after the sentencing memo. That's what happened. That's not a comment on what the judge's intention was beyond that, but that much is clear. He was pushing Flynn to withdraw his plea and pushing the SCO to admit the charges they were dangling over his head re Turkey had no real teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, peace out said: The judge began the hearing like that because Flynn's lawyers submitted a pre-trial memo claiming there was FBI misconduct in the interview and that Flynn was entrapped. The judge gave Flynn the option to withdraw his plea because of what that pre-trial memo said. Flynn and his lawyers then said under oath, multiple times, the FBI did not entrap Flynn. I just want to put on the record that I agree with this, because in about an hour you and the rest of the band of idiots are going to insist I think it's false. You're still going to insist that, of course, because you're all ***** stupid, but at least now I won't feel compelled to argue with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, DC Tom said: I just want to put on the record that I agree with this, because in about an hour you and the rest of the band of idiots are going to insist I think it's false. You're still going to insist that, of course, because you're all ***** stupid, but at least now I won't feel compelled to argue with you. I know you agree with this as you said as much yesterday. It won't be me insisting it's false. 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He kept returning to it, clarifying that he was not comfortable sentencing someone for a crime they did not commit (not that they said they didn't commit, that they did not commit). He was pushing Flynn to withdraw his plea and pushing the SCO to admit the charges they were dangling over his head re Turkey had no real teeth. If the judge thought (any of!) the charges has no real teeth he would have rescinded the charges like you and Trump Nation predicted prior to the trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, peace out said: I know you agree with this as you said as much yesterday. It won't be me insisting it's false. Never stopped you and the rest of the Band of Idiots before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, peace out said: If the judge thought (any of!) the charges has no real teeth he would have rescinded the charges like you and Trump Nation predicted prior to the trial. It's not over yet. But the charges don't have teeth. Logan Act violations have only been successfully prosecuted twice (I think, commuting so I don't have easy access at the moment). Logan Act does not equal treason. By getting the SCO to admit the most they could hang on him is a Logan Act charge, it puts all the "treason" talk to rest. Remember there is a classified DIA memo about FIG which Grassley requested and still has not been delivered - here's a hint as to what will be revealed in that document: FIG was bait. Flynn was working with the FBI in 2016 (and being paid for it) to run FIG as an op. Edited December 19, 2018 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: It's not over yet. This is a key point. Whatever motives you want to ascribe to Sullivan, two incontrovertible facts are: 1) Sullivan did not void the guilty plea, as he could do if he believed it appropriate, and 2) Sullivan did not sentence Flynn, which he also could have done, given it was a sentencing hearing. All these arguments about "what it all means" miss the bigger picture: it means it's not resolved yet. It's still open and ongoing. That in itself speaks volumes...though what it speaks to, I again won't speculate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: "Arguably" does not mean it happened, nor does it mean the judge is saying that's what happened. Words matter. LOL, ya, sure. It's not seriously arguable the FBI set him up. Flynn said so himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I think there's more than the Logan act he might be facing. I think he's protecting his son and perhaps others. The agreement with Mueller is contingent on his accepting the "guilty" plea and sticking with that. He won't have any jail time if he does. If he crosses Mueller, he and his son (and perhaps others) will be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then some. He doesn't have the $ to fight it any further. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Never stopped you and the rest of the Band of Idiots before. A Trumptard calling someone else an idiot. Interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: It's not over yet. No *****! That's my point. There are not facts in the situation yet because it's not over - only speculation. Save this discussion for the actual sentencing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, peace out said: No *****! That's my point. There are not facts in the situation yet because it's not over - only speculation. Save this discussion for the actual sentencing. But speculating is 90% of the meat of this conversation in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 It took 376 pages for us to almost agree on something Progress 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: But speculating is 90% of the meat of this conversation in this thread. Indeed - probably even closer to 95% - literally all I was saying is don't call something a fact when it's speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Also, re FIG and the FBI connection: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, DC Tom said: This is a key point. Whatever motives you want to ascribe to Sullivan, two incontrovertible facts are: 1) Sullivan did not void the guilty plea, as he could do if he believed it appropriate, and 2) Sullivan did not sentence Flynn, which he also could have done, given it was a sentencing hearing. All these arguments about "what it all means" miss the bigger picture: it means it's not resolved yet. It's still open and ongoing. That in itself speaks volumes...though what it speaks to, I again won't speculate. This is why all the press reports and comments on this thread are a waste of time. It is extremely difficult to ascribe motive to a Judge's line of questioning. It is extremely difficult to predict what a Judge will do. There's absolutely no one here -- or in that Courtroom yesterday --who will accurately predict the outcome. I don't think the Judge could at this point. I'm sure he's on to other things and will take it up again in his mind at some future date. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: He said some of it might be wrong, but the main point is totally right. And all those contacts, the letter of intent Trump signed, the lies, etc., prove the main points of the dossier. Isikoff doubts the Prague meeting, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: He said some of it might be wrong, but the main point is totally right. And all those contacts, the letter of intent Trump signed, the lies, etc., prove the main points of the dossier. Isikoff doubts the Prague meeting, though That's an inaccurate summary... none of the dossier's most salacious or upsetting claims have been verified. Most of its most ardent supporters have moved away from the dossier saying it no longer matters. It absolutely matters as it's the basis of several illegal FISA warrants on American citizens, not to mention it was the talking point for the information campaign waged by the MSM and USIC on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: That's an inaccurate summary... none of the dossier's most salacious or upsetting claims have been verified. Most of its most ardent supporters have moved away from the dossier saying it no longer matters. It absolutely matters as it's the basis of several illegal FISA warrants on American citizens, not to mention it was the talking point for the information campaign waged by the MSM and USIC on this subject. It was 100% correct that there was a connection between Trump and Russia. His attempt to get his hotel built there is proof of that. And that's just one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: It was 100% correct that there was a connection between Trump and Russia. His attempt to get his hotel built there is proof of that. And that's just one example. That was public knowledge before the dossier, and is not illegal or a sign of any collusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: That was public knowledge before the dossier, and is not illegal or a sign of any collusion. Please. Next you'll be telling us that Trump selling condos to Russians back in the 1980's and 1990's isn't clear and conclusive proof of Russian collusion. Do you really think that businessmen are in the business of making money or something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 4 hours ago, peace out said: Indeed - probably even closer to 95% - literally all I was saying is don't call something a fact when it's speculation. Lol, you and the rest of your hypocrites aught to take your own advice. You have no problem calling collusion without any evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: He said some of it might be wrong, but the main point is totally right. And all those contacts, the letter of intent Trump signed, the lies, etc., prove the main points of the dossier. Isikoff doubts the Prague meeting, though You don't have a ***** clue what a Letter of Intent consists of. Tell me what the address of the property was, the price and the other contingencies were or else stfu about something you know nothing about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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