Not sure Darby actually fits this system?

[gr8billsfan]

Darby will not have ANY problem with Seans defensive schemes.

[ajmac]

I'm usually quick to point out the bad topics, but i think this is a legitimate question and falls under the football discussion. Compare this topic to other threads, which, rather than asking for input, simply posit an idea and then proceed to criticize everyone who disagrees.

 

Thank you! That is what I was going for here. Just a football discussion about what the rest of you out there think about this subject.

 

I think Darby is a great corner, but I am not sure he has the length, reactionary skills, run support, etc. to be a great zone coverage type corner. At least most people here can see the same issues. I am not even really worrying about it either, just starting a legitimate discussion.

Agree to a point. You can't teach speed but playing zone is about so much more than that.

 

Agreed. That was my point. The skills to play zone are much different than playing man and press. I do think Darby is up to it, just not sure how quickly and to what level...

[Rochesterfan]

Darby, Ragland, Shaq, Washington, ... pretty much everyone drafted while Rex was here is now a square peg in a round hole. Part of the fun of switching defenses every two years.

 

That being said, Darby is probably the least affected. If you can cover then you can cover.

I actually disagree - I thought both Shaq and Washington were poor fits for Rex and better fits for a 4-3.

 

I think Darby can cover - so I think he will be alright.

 

I do have very big concerns about Ragland, but I did not think he had enough athleticism as a LB no matter the system - he does have great instincts though - so we will see what they can get out of him.

[Just Joshin']

Do you have any facts or logic on why he will not fit?

 

Even if not a perfect fit he would still be a valuable corner on his rookie deal in a position of limited depth. Why trade?

[Royale with Cheese]

Ragland doesn't have the classic range required to play MLB or WLB in a 4-3 at the pro level. Lawson is a small 4-3 DE or a slow 4-3 SLB.

 

Not saying these guys can't make the transition. If they turn out to be elite players then they can play in any system. But they were drafted as "fits" for a completely different system than the one they are now being asked to play in.

6"3 and 270 lbs is not a small DE in a 4-3. That's ideal size.

[thebandit27]

Good topic IMO.

 

Darby does lack some of the measurables that McDermott seems to like--he's not tall and he doesn't have the apparent requisite length that he likes.

 

However, Darby does have some of the play characteristics that make him a good fit. He's physical, collapses and breaks down well in run support, and he protects the sideline well; all of those traits are staples of Cover-3 packages.

 

I also like that McDermott's scheme seems to be built to protect corners from having deep responsibilities while playing in man, which really exposed Darby last year.

 

What I'd absolutely love to see is for a 3rd corner like Seymour, Wright, or even someone yet to be signed like Alterraun Verner to play well enough to earn the boundary job and allow Darby to kick into the slot. I think Darby is an ideal slot corner in this league, and I don't mean this as a knock on him. I think slot corner is the toughest position to play on defense, and he's got the speed, fluidity, and run support ability to be one of the best slot corners in the league.

Ragland doesn't have the classic range required to play MLB or WLB in a 4-3 at the pro level. Lawson is a small 4-3 DE or a slow 4-3 SLB.

 

Not saying these guys can't make the transition. If they turn out to be elite players then they can play in any system. But they were drafted as "fits" for a completely different system than the one they are now being asked to play in.

 

Just FYI, Lawson is a very close comparable to Charles Johnson, who has had a lot of success in McDermott's scheme.

 

Charles Johnson at the 2007 combine: 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84s 40-yard dash, 1.63s 10-yard split, 33 bench reps, 34" vertical, 118" broad, 7.50s 3-cone

Shaq Lawson at the 2016 combine: 6'3", 269 lbs, 4.70s 40-yard dash, 1.64s 10-yard split, did not bench, 33" vertical, 120" broad, 7.16s 3-cone

 

As for Ragland, he's a bit behind Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly in terms of COD skills, but I'm hopeful that he can make that up by dropping some mass and getting down to the 235-240-lb range.

Edited May 16, 2017 by thebandit27

[machine gun kelly]

Darby will be fine.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Good topic IMO.

 

Darby does lack some of the measurables that McDermott seems to like--he's not tall and he doesn't have the apparent requisite length that he likes.

 

However, Darby does have some of the play characteristics that make him a good fit. He's physical, collapses and breaks down well in run support, and he protects the sideline well; all of those traits are staples of Cover-3 packages.

 

I also like that McDermott's scheme seems to be built to protect corners from having deep responsibilities while playing in man, which really exposed Darby last year.

 

What I'd absolutely love to see is for a 3rd corner like Seymour, Wright, or even someone yet to be signed like Alterraun Verner to play well enough to earn the boundary job and allow Darby to kick into the slot. I think Darby is an ideal slot corner in this league, and I don't mean this as a knock on him. I think slot corner is the toughest position to play on defense, and he's got the speed, fluidity, and run support ability to be one of the best slot corners in the league.

 

Just FYI, Lawson is a very close comparable to Charles Johnson, who has had a lot of success in McDermott's scheme.

 

Charles Johnson at the 2007 combine: 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84s 40-yard dash, 1.63s 10-yard split, 33 bench reps, 34" vertical, 118" broad, 7.50s 3-cone

Shaq Lawson at the 2016 combine: 6'3", 269 lbs, 4.70s 40-yard dash, 1.64s 10-yard split, did not bench, 33" vertical, 120" broad, 7.16s 3-cone

 

As for Ragland, he's a bit behind Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly in terms of COD skills, but I'm hopeful that he can make that up by dropping some mass and getting down to the 235-240-lb range.

Charles Johnson at the 2007 combine: 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84s 40-yard dash, 1.63s 10-yard split, 33 bench reps, 34" vertical, 118" broad, 7.50s 3-cone

A couple of things. First of all, the move of Darby inside and Seymour or someone on the boundary, is a terrific idea! Teams like the Patriots and Dolphins are tough because of Edelman and Landry, this needs to be done.

 

Second, Lawson actually could end up being a faster, quicker Charles Johnson and that is pretty darn good. Johnson was a 3rd rd. pick, and while not an All Pro he had multiple seasons of 11-12 sacks. Nice comp.

[YoloinOhio]

McD has talked a lot about moving guys around so I think all the corners will play inside and outside. Though Darby is on the smaller side he has good technique and when not hung out to dry constantly (Rex) he has been able to cover different types of WR and even had some success vs Gronk his rookie season. I think his fundamentals are very good ... should have a rebound season with proper coaching and scheme.

[hondo in seattle]

I'm worried about the secondary in general...

 

Darby seemed to regress his sophomore year.

 

Seymour didn't look like a starter when he got to play last season.

 

Poyer was the 69th ranked safety last year (PFF).

 

White's a rookie.

 

Maybe McD will work miracles with these guys but I think there's cause for concern here.

Edited May 16, 2017 by hondo in seattle

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I'm worried about the secondary in general...

 

Darby seemed to regress his sophomore year.

 

Seymour didn't look like a starter when he got to play last season.

 

Poyer was the 69th ranked safety last year (PFF).

 

White's a rookie.

 

Maybe McD will work miracles with these guys but I think there's cause for concern here.

I think the run defense must be fixed and that will help the secondary. The 135 yards and 4.5/ carry is obviously something that won't work even if it is pass first league.

[BringBackOrton]

..and the newest entry on inventing things to worry about is...

 

The team has enough actual issues to be concerned about.

Egg on your face here.

 

This is the best topic in a week, easy.

Edited May 16, 2017 by jmc12290

[thebandit27]

A couple of things. First of all, the move of Darby inside and Seymour or someone on the boundary, is a terrific idea! Teams like the Patriots and Dolphins are tough because of Edelman and Landry, this needs to be done.

 

Second, Lawson actually could end up being a faster, quicker Charles Johnson and that is pretty darn good. Johnson was a 3rd rd. pick, and while not an All Pro he had multiple seasons of 11-12 sacks. Nice comp.

 

Thanks...I'd even advocate for taking a flier on a corner like Tharold Simon--who fits the size/length mold that McDermott likes--if it means being able to put Darby in the best position to succeed.

[Sandy McFiddish]

Darby is a professional football player and the onus is on him to be able to change at anytime. He has a great burst on the ball usually so I do think he can still cut it.

[ajmac]

Good topic IMO.

 

Darby does lack some of the measurables that McDermott seems to like--he's not tall and he doesn't have the apparent requisite length that he likes.

 

However, Darby does have some of the play characteristics that make him a good fit. He's physical, collapses and breaks down well in run support, and he protects the sideline well; all of those traits are staples of Cover-3 packages.

 

I also like that McDermott's scheme seems to be built to protect corners from having deep responsibilities while playing in man, which really exposed Darby last year.

 

What I'd absolutely love to see is for a 3rd corner like Seymour, Wright, or even someone yet to be signed like Alterraun Verner to play well enough to earn the boundary job and allow Darby to kick into the slot. I think Darby is an ideal slot corner in this league, and I don't mean this as a knock on him. I think slot corner is the toughest position to play on defense, and he's got the speed, fluidity, and run support ability to be one of the best slot corners in the league.

 

 

Just FYI, Lawson is a very close comparable to Charles Johnson, who has had a lot of success in McDermott's scheme.

 

Charles Johnson at the 2007 combine: 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84s 40-yard dash, 1.63s 10-yard split, 33 bench reps, 34" vertical, 118" broad, 7.50s 3-cone

Shaq Lawson at the 2016 combine: 6'3", 269 lbs, 4.70s 40-yard dash, 1.64s 10-yard split, did not bench, 33" vertical, 120" broad, 7.16s 3-cone

 

As for Ragland, he's a bit behind Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly in terms of COD skills, but I'm hopeful that he can make that up by dropping some mass and getting down to the 235-240-lb range.

Yes! This is exactly my thinking and why I started the discussion. I do think he could be an excellent slot corner as well. Between his size, reactionary skills, and ability to breakdown in run support, I think he really fits into that role. Not saying he can't play outside at all.

 

My question to the group was just that, a question...what if? Is it possible we could see Seymour and White on he outside this season. I think it is definitely possible.

 

You made some valid points and at least this entire post seems to have brought the best out of what these boards are supposed to be about.thanks!

Egg on your face here.

This is the best topic in a week, easy.

Thank you. That is what I was going for. I nice healthy discussion about a scenario we might see. All of it is just opinion, and that is ok.

 

I think it is definitely something we should keep an eye on through camp.

[SoCal Deek]

I have an idea...why don't the Bills bring in a new Coach who change things back to a 4-3...or a 3-4...and then draft all new players....never mind, we just got finished doing that the last couple of years! UGH!

[BringBackOrton]

I have an idea...why don't the Bills bring in a new Coach who change things back to a 4-3...or a 3-4...and then draft all new players....never mind, we just got finished doing that the last couple of years! UGH!

It cost Whaley his job. Hopefully it won't happen again.

[Capco]

Actually, I'm very excited to see all 4 of these guys play next year (Darby, Shaq, Ragland, and Washington), as well as White and even Seymour. Mix in Kyle, Dareus, and Hughes, and things might look really good.

 

My biggest concern right now is with safety. It's a shame Meeks and Williams never turned into anything special.

[wilcoam]

I see all this in a different light

There are 11 starters on any typical defense

If HC Sean wants to find starting players that are a perfect fit for his D system he'll likely have to replace every one of em

Even then no guarantee, and we're not even talking about our depth

This off season he's already transitioned out 3 secondary and a linebacker

So he's got 4 replaced and 7 more to go

He should by finished by about this time 2019

Of which by the time he's finished he might be unemployed

For while he was replacing all the players to fit his system we were likely not winning many games

I made this exact argument about Rex Ryan, and guess what?

Just saying regarding any NFL HC who decided to swap out all or a majority of his players

How many are actually still NFL HC's, I bet its a really low %

 

jc

[atlbillsfan1975]

Good topic IMO.

 

Darby does lack some of the measurables that McDermott seems to like--he's not tall and he doesn't have the apparent requisite length that he likes.

 

However, Darby does have some of the play characteristics that make him a good fit. He's physical, collapses and breaks down well in run support, and he protects the sideline well; all of those traits are staples of Cover-3 packages.

 

I also like that McDermott's scheme seems to be built to protect corners from having deep responsibilities while playing in man, which really exposed Darby last year.

 

What I'd absolutely love to see is for a 3rd corner like Seymour, Wright, or even someone yet to be signed like Alterraun Verner to play well enough to earn the boundary job and allow Darby to kick into the slot. I think Darby is an ideal slot corner in this league, and I don't mean this as a knock on him. I think slot corner is the toughest position to play on defense, and he's got the speed, fluidity, and run support ability to be one of the best slot corners in the league.

 

Just FYI, Lawson is a very close comparable to Charles Johnson, who has had a lot of success in McDermott's scheme.

 

Charles Johnson at the 2007 combine: 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84s 40-yard dash, 1.63s 10-yard split, 33 bench reps, 34" vertical, 118" broad, 7.50s 3-cone

Shaq Lawson at the 2016 combine: 6'3", 269 lbs, 4.70s 40-yard dash, 1.64s 10-yard split, did not bench, 33" vertical, 120" broad, 7.16s 3-cone

 

As for Ragland, he's a bit behind Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly in terms of COD skills, but I'm hopeful that he can make that up by dropping some mass and getting down to the 235-240-lb range.

Just when i am ready to write off the board until late July, you post something like this, and pull me back in! I agree Shaq and Ragland could be good fits. I like your thoughts on Darby. He seemed to excel his rookie year in tight quarters. If Darby 'struggles' at all it is on deep routes where he seems to get lost. Darby likes to be tethered to his man.