Not sure Darby actually fits this system?

[#34fan]

Roasted? -You mean like Tre White by Brandin Cooks?

[Doc]

Roasted? -You mean like Tre White by Brandin Cooks?

 

When was that?

[#34fan]

 

When was that?

 

Soon!

[Doc]

Soon!

 

Oh. OK.

[#34fan]

 

Oh. OK.

 

C'mon, It was a JOKE for cripes sakes! -Until it happens, that is..

[3rdand12]

Darby is a professional football player and the onus is on him to be able to change at anytime. He has a great burst on the ball usually so I do think he can still cut it.

he does, his play recognition has been suspect. His natural ability once running is not bad. has good hands.

His make up speed is stupid good. we saw that both years.

its between the ears he need to tighten up.

 

i seriously and sincerely blame Rex

[BillsFan17]

I'm worried about the secondary in general...

 

Darby seemed to regress his sophomore year.

 

Seymour didn't look like a starter when he got to play last season.

 

Poyer was the 69th ranked safety last year (PFF).

 

White's a rookie.

 

Maybe McD will work miracles with these guys but I think there's cause for concern here.

Seymour was fantastic in his playing time. The kid seldom gave up a reception against.

[Bill_with_it]

Good topic IMO.

 

Darby does lack some of the measurables that McDermott seems to like--he's not tall and he doesn't have the apparent requisite length that he likes.

WHAT!!??

However, Darby does have some of the play characteristics that make him a good fit. He's physical, collapses and breaks down well in run support, and he protects the sideline well; all of those traits are staples of Cover-3 packages.

 

I also like that McDermott's scheme seems to be built to protect corners from having deep responsibilities while playing in man, which really exposed Darby last year.

 

What I'd absolutely love to see is for a 3rd corner like Seymour, Wright, or even someone yet to be signed like Alterraun Verner to play well enough to earn the boundary job and allow Darby to kick into the slot. I think Darby is an ideal slot corner in this league, and I don't mean this as a knock on him. I think slot corner is the toughest position to play on defense, and he's got the speed, fluidity, and run support ability to be one of the best slot corners in the league.

 

 

Just FYI, Lawson is a very close comparable to Charles Johnson, who has had a lot of success in McDermott's scheme.

 

Charles Johnson at the 2007 combine: 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84s 40-yard dash, 1.63s 10-yard split, 33 bench reps, 34" vertical, 118" broad, 7.50s 3-cone

Shaq Lawson at the 2016 combine: 6'3", 269 lbs, 4.70s 40-yard dash, 1.64s 10-yard split, did not bench, 33" vertical, 120" broad, 7.16s 3-cone

 

As for Ragland, he's a bit behind Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly in terms of COD skills, but I'm hopeful that he can make that up by dropping some mass and getting down to the 235-240-lb range.

T. White was just drafted by Mcdermott:

5'11 192

Darby

5'11 193

 

Can you stop this jibberish?

 

Darby will find a home on this defense. If thats the number 1,2, or slot he will find a home.

 

Lets not make believe Darby as some midget without arms that has an inability to learn a scheme or coverage basics of a zone defense.

He played pretty darn well his rookie year, had nonproblems picking up concepts of what many call a very tough defense to grasp.

He has very fast soeed at 4.3ish and that cant be taught.

He played for charles kelly in a multiple scheme there.

[thebandit27]

T. White was just drafted by Mcdermott:

5'11 192

Darby

5'11 193

 

Can you stop this jibberish?

 

Darby will find a home on this defense. If thats the number 1,2, or slot he will find a home.

 

Lets not make believe Darby as some midget without arms that has an inability to learn a scheme or coverage basics of a zone defense.

He played pretty darn well his rookie year, had nonproblems picking up concepts of what many call a very tough defense to grasp.

He has very fast soeed at 4.3ish and that cant be taught.

He played for charles kelly in a multiple scheme there.

I'm glad to see that you still don't actually address the point of discussion; it would truly throw me off kilter.

 

Nothing I said was incorrect. What sets Tre White apart from other corners his height/weight is that he's got great length--32-1/8" arms.

 

If you can honestly read my post and think that what I said makes Darby out to be a midget that can't learn a scheme, then you've now set a new record of requiring only one post to reach your standard threshold of total inability to have a discussion.

[Bill_with_it]

I'm glad to see that you still don't actually address the point of discussion; it would truly throw me off kilter.

 

Nothing I said was incorrect. What sets Tre White apart from other corners his height/weight is that he's got great length--32-1/8" arms.

 

If you can honestly read my post and think that what I said makes Darby out to be a midget that can't learn a scheme, then you've now set a new record of requiring only one post to reach your standard threshold of total inability to have a discussion.

You have set a new low for saying wrong "bandit scouted" theories and then back tracking out of it. Everybit of what you stated about Darby was wrong except the mentioning Darby would be a good slot corner.

 

Darby isnt great at run support.

Darby is fast and rarely gets beat deep.

Darby is just as tall as the only corner mcdermott has drafted in his life aka the one he likes.

He has 3/4 inch in arm length wich is exactly a thumbnail.

Darby has 9.5 inches of vertical jump on him.

Darby is a great fit at boundry or slot and he has the intelligence to pick it up.

You have a very difficilt tome when you are caught in a tremendously wrong statement...

[SoFFacet]

Ok, I know I will get roasted here, but Darby really was drafted as a man cover corner. Not really sure he fits the cover 3 zone prototype at all.

 

With Seymour and White seemingly better fits, is there any possibility in your opinion that Darby, if not fitting through camp, could get traded, be a backup, or move inside?

 

White is almost certainly the first string slot guy, so I highly doubt that Darby sees much time there.

[KellyToughII]

Ok, I know I will get roasted here, but Darby really was drafted as a man cover corner. Not really sure he fits the cover 3 zone prototype at all.

 

With Seymour and White seemingly better fits, is there any possibility in your opinion that Darby, if not fitting through camp, could get traded, be a backup, or move inside?

Wow, this already?

[thebandit27]

You have set a new low for saying wrong "bandit scouted" theories and then back tracking out of it. Everybit of what you stated about Darby was wrong except the mentioning Darby would be a good slot corner.

 

Darby isnt great at run support.

Darby is fast and rarely gets beat deep.

Darby is just as tall as the only corner mcdermott has drafted in his life aka the one he likes.

He has 3/4 inch in arm length wich is exactly a thumbnail.

Darby has 9.5 inches of vertical jump on him.

Darby is a great fit at boundry or slot and he has the intelligence to pick it up.

You have a very difficilt tome when you are caught in a tremendously wrong statement...

 

You cannot possibly believe the things that you write. There's just no way.

 

- Only 6 CBs in the entire NFL had more tackles than Darby last year

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_BACK&season=2016&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

 

- Darby was wrecked by the deep ball last year. He got burned by Marshall and Decker in the first Jets game, was responsible for Torrey Smith's deep TD against SF, got burned by Martellus Bennett for 58 yards in NE, lost his awareness and collided with the safety on the Kenny Stills bomb TD against Miami, gave up a 50-yarder to Doug Baldwin in Seattle, got scorched for a 40-yarder by Antonio Brown against Pittsburgh (and those are just the ones off of the top of my head)...any of this ringing a bell?

 

- You need to pay more attention to detail. I realize that Tre White is the same height and weight; what I spoke to specifically was Darby's relative lack of length (you could also call attention to his lack of hand size, but hey, some folks' analysis simply isn't that nuanced). You could also harken back to the top two corners that Carolina drafted to fit McDermott's scheme last year: Daryl Worley (6'1", 33-3/8" arms) and James Bradberry (6'1", 33-3/8" arms) if you want more context.

 

- Darby is not considered to have prototype arm length, which was my point to begin with. I'll quote Dan Quinn: Length: “You want him to have 32- or 33-inch arms,” Quinn says. “He doesn’t have to be 6-3 or 6-4 to have length.”

 

- I never said anything about vertical jump, nor has McDermott ever seemingly placed a premium on it. Furthermore, Darby's hops certainly haven't helped him in contested catch situations in the NFL, have they?

 

- If you go back and actually read my post (which you didn't, or you wouldn't be saying such ridiculous things), you'd know that I never said that Darby wasn't a fit. Observe:

 

 

Good topic IMO.

 

Darby does lack some of the measurables that McDermott seems to like--he's not tall and he doesn't have the apparent requisite length that he likes.

 

However, Darby does have some of the play characteristics that make him a good fit. He's physical, collapses and breaks down well in run support, and he protects the sideline well; all of those traits are staples of Cover-3 packages.

 

I also like that McDermott's scheme seems to be built to protect corners from having deep responsibilities while playing in man, which really exposed Darby last year.

 

What I'd absolutely love to see is for a 3rd corner like Seymour, Wright, or even someone yet to be signed like Alterraun Verner to play well enough to earn the boundary job and allow Darby to kick into the slot. I think Darby is an ideal slot corner in this league, and I don't mean this as a knock on him. I think slot corner is the toughest position to play on defense, and he's got the speed, fluidity, and run support ability to be one of the best slot corners in the league.

 

Just FYI, Lawson is a very close comparable to Charles Johnson, who has had a lot of success in McDermott's scheme.

 

Charles Johnson at the 2007 combine: 6'2", 270 lbs, 4.84s 40-yard dash, 1.63s 10-yard split, 33 bench reps, 34" vertical, 118" broad, 7.50s 3-cone

Shaq Lawson at the 2016 combine: 6'3", 269 lbs, 4.70s 40-yard dash, 1.64s 10-yard split, did not bench, 33" vertical, 120" broad, 7.16s 3-cone

 

As for Ragland, he's a bit behind Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly in terms of COD skills, but I'm hopeful that he can make that up by dropping some mass and getting down to the 235-240-lb range.

- If you're going to come after me for making "tremendously wrong" statements, it'd be best if you didn't continuously prove yourself to know absolutely nothing about any topic whatsoever.

You're dismissed now.

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by thebandit27

[Bill_with_it]

 

 

You cannot possibly believe the things that you write. There's just no way.

 

- Only 6 CBs in the entire NFL had more tackles than Darby last year

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_BACK&season=2016&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

 

- Darby was wrecked by the deep ball last year. He got burned by Marshall and Decker in the first Jets game, was responsible for Torrey Smith's deep TD against SF, got burned by Martellus Bennett for 58 yards in NE, lost his awareness and collided with the safety on the Kenny Stills bomb TD against Miami, gave up a 50-yarder to Doug Baldwin in Seattle, got scorched for a 40-yarder by Antonio Brown against Pittsburgh (and those are just the ones off of the top of my head)...any of this ringing a bell?

Ill have to break it up for you in pieces so you can read it and try and back track.

-First do tackles equate to run support? The answer is no. There are a variety of ways to get tackles but to distinguish him as a great run support based solely on tackles is lazy at best.

 

-Second, whats the purpose of a safety in a man coverage scheme. Are they on the field for looks or are they supposed to assist the cbs in stopping plays from getting out of control. Darby was beat on some plays just as literally every cornerback in the league has, will continue to, and almost always will be if you trot out poor safeties.

 

- You need to pay more attention to detail. I realize that Tre White is the same height and weight; what I spoke to specifically was Darby's relative lack of length (you could also call attention to his lack of hand size, but hey, some folks' analysis simply isn't that nuanced). You could also harken back to the top two corners that Carolina drafted to fit McDermott's scheme last year: Daryl Worley (6'1", 33-3/8" arms) and James Bradberry (6'1", 33-3/8" arms) if you want more context.

 

Who drafted those cbs? Was it mcdermott? If so whats be doing the gms job for?

Mcdermotts only cb that he drafted was White. Almost exactly the same physical size. With darby having 9 inches of vertical on him making his armlength and hand length nothing. Again NUANCES

 

- Darby is not considered to have prototype arm length, which was my point to begin with. I'll quote Dan Quinn: Length: You want him to have 32- or 33-inch arms, Quinn says. He doesnt have to be 6-3 or 6-4 to have length.

When did Dan Quinn become Mcdermott? Because that what this is all about. You stated that he isnt a Mcdermott cb. That completely wrong and will be proven wrong come this season.

- I never said anything about vertical jump, nor has McDermott ever seemingly placed a premium on it. Furthermore, Darby's hops certainly haven't helped him in contested catch situations in the NFL, have they?

I would hope that dishonesty would take a backseat in a discussion with a supposed scout. If you dont realize the high inportance of a cb's vertical ability as it compares to ones overall ability to defend a pass much like ones length does then YIKES

- If you go back and actually read my post (which you didn't, or you wouldn't be saying such ridiculous things), you'd know that I never said that Darby wasn't a fit. Observe:

 

 

 

- If you're going to come after me for making "tremendously wrong" statements, it'd be best if you didn't continuously prove yourself to know absolutely nothing about any topic whatsoever.

 

You're dismissed now.

You dont know as much as you think you do relative to football and are completely wrong on Darby. Go back to saying Darby isnt a Mcdermott type cb, referencing a gms pick, and Quinns statement and a thumbnail length, while simultaneously dismissing 9 inches in vertical ability. Oh yeah and lets count total tackles as ones ability to support in the run game.

 

You are dismissed.

[John from Riverside]

Roasted? -You mean like Tre White by Brandin Cooks?

Talking about things before they actually happen?

 

Are you sure your even a fan of this team?

[thebandit27]

Ill have to break it up for you in pieces so you can read it and try and back track.

-First do tackles equate to run support? The answer is no. There are a variety of ways to get tackles but to distinguish him as a great run support based solely on tackles is lazy at best.

 

 

Dude, just stop...

 

Pro Football Focus‏Verified account @PFF

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Best run defense grades among CBs Xavier Rhodes, MIN, 86.4 Ronald Darby, BUF, 86.3 Brent Grimes, TB, 83.5 Aqib Talib, DEN, 83.2

He's very good in run support.

 

-Second, whats the purpose of a safety in a man coverage scheme. Are they on the field for looks or are they supposed to assist the cbs in stopping plays from getting out of control. Darby was beat on some plays just as literally every cornerback in the league has, will continue to, and almost always will be if you trot out poor safeties.

 

 

 

First off, you need to understand that about 50% of Rex Ryan's playbook involved Cover-2, Cover-4, and Cover-6, so stop categorizing everything as though it's man coverage. Here, study up:

 

http://www.footballxos.com/wpfb-file/2010-ny-jets-defense-rex-ryan-pdf/

 

Secondly, if you're in a true man scheme, then the safety is going to have man responsibilities as well, so the purpose of the safety would be to cover whoever his man responsibility is on that play. If you can't even get this simple concept down, then I suggest studying the game a bit before you partake in such discussions.

 

And no, Darby wasn't beaten "like every other corner". He was giving up long completions on a weekly basis. Find me another corner that did so this year and we can have the discussion.

 

Who drafted those cbs? Was it mcdermott? If so whats be doing the gms job for?

Mcdermotts only cb that he drafted was White. Almost exactly the same physical size. With darby having 9 inches of vertical on him making his armlength and hand length nothing. Again NUANCES

 

 

If you understand how teams get built, GMs don't simply pick players that they like and tell the staff to make it work. You talk about backtracking, my entire point to begin with was that Darby lacked length. You still haven't disputed that. In fact, you've shifted the discussion about half-a-dozen times with absolutely zero recognition of what I said in the first post. Indulge me just for a second: what, exactly, are you arguing with from my post?

 

 

When did Dan Quinn become Mcdermott? Because that what this is all about. You stated that he isnt a Mcdermott cb. That completely wrong and will be proven wrong come this season.

I would hope that dishonesty would take a backseat in a discussion with a supposed scout. If you dont realize the high inportance of a cb's vertical ability as it compares to ones overall ability to defend a pass much like ones length does then YIKES

 

 

No, that's not what I stated, and it's further evidence that you have no ability to follow a discussion. I said that he did lack the length that McDermott typically likes in his corners, but that he had other attributes that make him a great fit. Someone with a modicum of reading comprehension would've realized that and moved on by now, but you get way too deeply invested in arguing points that haven't been made.

 

As to length versus vertical, that's a point that I never made (shockingly, you're arguing it anyway). To my recollection, McDermott has never placed a premium on vertical, nor is there any apparent correlation between vertical jump and cornerback quality. The top corners in the NFL have varying degrees of vertical ability. Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson can vert 38", but Josh Norman's a 33" leaper. In general, however, the zone corners tend to be guys with longer arms that can tackle. And again, you let me know when Darby's vertical helps him win a single 50/50 ball in the NFL.

 

 

You dont know as much as you think you do relative to football and are completely wrong on Darby. Go back to saying Darby isnt a Mcdermott type cb, referencing a gms pick, and Quinns statement and a thumbnail length, while simultaneously dismissing 9 inches in vertical ability. Oh yeah and lets count total tackles as ones ability to support in the run game.

 

You are dismissed.

 

What did I say about Darby that's wrong? Go ahead and identify one thing using a quote. Don't paraphrase, don't give me your interpretation. Use a quote from me in this very thread that says something that's not true about Darby.

 

You will not receive another response from me on any topic until you prove yourself worthy of my time, because up until this point all you've done is show that you can't follow a discussion for anything.

Edited May 17, 2017 by thebandit27

[Bill_with_it]

 

Dude, just stop...

 

 

45]

Pro Football Focus‏Verified account @PFF

 

Follow

 

 

More

Best run defense grades among CBs Xavier Rhodes, MIN, 86.4 Ronald Darby, BUF, 86.3 Brent Grimes, TB, 83.5 Aqib Talib, DEN, 83.2

He's very good in run support.

 

 

First off, you need to understand that about 50% of Rex Ryan's playbook involved Cover-2, Cover-4, and Cover-6, so stop categorizing everything as though it's man coverage. Here, study up:

 

http://www.footballxos.com/wpfb-file/2010-ny-jets-defense-rex-ryan-pdf/

 

Secondly, if you're in a true man scheme, then the safety is going to have man responsibilities as well, so the purpose of the safety would be to cover whoever his man responsibility is on that play. If you can't even get this simple concept down, then I suggest studying the game a bit before you partake in such discussions.

 

And no, Darby wasn't beaten "like every other corner". He was giving up long completions on a weekly basis. Find me another corner that did so this year and we can have the discussion.

 

 

If you understand how teams get built, GMs don't simply pick players that they like and tell the staff to make it work. You talk about backtracking, my entire point to begin with was that Darby lacked length. You still haven't disputed that. In fact, you've shifted the discussion about half-a-dozen times with absolutely zero recognition of what I said in the first post. Indulge me just for a second: what, exactly, are you arguing with from my post?

 

 

 

No, that's not what I stated, and it's further evidence that you have no ability to follow a discussion. I said that he did lack the length that McDermott typically likes in his corners, but that he had other attributes that make him a great fit. Someone with a modicum of reading comprehension would've realized that and moved on by now, but you get way too deeply invested in arguing points that haven't been made.

 

As to length versus vertical, that's a point that I never made (shockingly, you're arguing it anyway). To my recollection, McDermott has never placed a premium on vertical, nor is there any apparent correlation between vertical jump and cornerback quality. The top corners in the NFL have varying degrees of vertical ability. Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson can vert 38", but Josh Norman's a 33" leaper. In general, however, the zone corners tend to be guys with longer arms that can tackle. And again, you let me know when Darby's vertical helps him win a single 50/50 ball in the NFL.

 

 

 

What did I say about Darby that's wrong? Go ahead and identify one thing using a quote. Don't paraphrase, don't give me your interpretation. Use a quote from me in this very thread that says something that's not true about Darby.

 

You will not receive another response from me on any topic until you prove yourself worthy of my time, because up until this point all you've done is show that you can't follow a discussion for anything.

Pff graded him as one of the best run defending cbs this year that is the first point you have made that is true so far.

 

 

Rex Ryan is a huge on an island cb scheme guy. I never said he strictly played man.

 

In a true man scheme Rex defense, 3/4 thats oh lets see here at least 2 lbrs, 2 safeties, and 3 cbs depending on the call against what 5 skill positions. Lets not act like the safeties had man assignments every play because thats not the case at all.

 

Darby doesnt lack length unless you are considering 3/4 inch arms and 1/2 inch hand length thats easily remedied by his 9 inch vertical over White.

 

 

Defensive coordinators dont draft cbs. I dont know why thats hard for you. Mcdermott didnt dictate to the gm who to draft. The only cb that we can say with certainty that is the "type" that Mcdermott likes is White. Because he had the ability to draft anyone prior to White and he chose the mirror image of size as Darby with the excpetion of 1/2 inch hands (measured outside thumbs to outside pinky finger that doesnt represent the difference in length as the difference between darby and white) and 3/4 longer arms.

 

You are reaching for straws.

 

I dont want your time, when I see complete bs that is unsubstantiated as in Hes not a mcdermott type cb, well Im going to destroy it just as I did your post.

 

Heres your flawed post:

 

Darby does lack some of the measurables that McDermott seems to like--he's not tall and he doesn't have the apparent requisite length that he likes.

 

The only cb Mcdermott has drafted is white exactly the same height as Darby. So mcdermott must not like White either. Edited May 17, 2017 by Bill_with_it

[BmarvB]

I think the system will actually help him

[thebandit27]

Pff graded him as one of the best run defending cbs this year that is the first point you have made that is true so far.

 

 

Rex Ryan is a huge on an island cb scheme guy. I never said he strictly played man.

 

In a true man scheme Rex defense, 3/4 thats oh lets see here at least 2 lbrs, 2 safeties, and 3 cbs depending on the call against what 5 skill positions. Lets not act like the safeties had man assignments every play because thats not the case at all.

 

Darby doesnt lack length unless you are considering 3/4 inch arms and 1/2 inch hand length thats easily remedied by his 9 inch vertical over White.

 

 

Defensive coordinators dont draft cbs. I dont know why thats hard for you. Mcdermott didnt dictate to the gm who to draft. The only cb that we can say with certainty that is the "type" that Mcdermott likes is White. Because he had the ability to draft anyone prior to White and he chose the mirror image of size as Darby with the excpetion of 1/2 inch hands (measured outside thumbs to outside pinky finger that doesnt represent the difference in length as the difference between darby and white) and 3/4 longer arms.

 

You are reaching for straws.

 

I dont want your time, when I see complete bs that is unsubstantiated as in Hes not a mcdermott type cb, well Im going to destroy it just as I did your post.

 

Heres your flawed post:

The only cb Mcdermott has drafted is white exactly the same height as Darby. So mcdermott must not like White either.

What did the VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH say?

[#34fan]

Talking about things before they actually happen?

 

Are you sure your even a fan of this team?

 

I am the most devoted, synical, fan there is.... GO BILLS! -But.... you still should've drafted Howard...