Worried About the Scout Vacancies- Big Hole!

[Bill_with_it]

I don't think that Terry and Kim Pegula are more capable of evaluating a scout than the GM. They should have allowed the GM to keep or fire anyone that they wanted. I'm not advocating for anyone in particular. I do not believe that ALL 17 people that they fired are worse than the people on the street. That's not the point though. I'm not trying to use "the Patriots" do things this way but this is something that they never would have done. It is an incompetent decision. Again, IT MAY NOT MATTER but there was absolutely no benefit to the way that they did it. That is the exact point. It only could hurt them. They didn't gain one single advantage by firing those people before a GM was hired. All that happened is they allowed some people that they may have wanted to become free agents. That's not a good decision. The only possible benefit that I can see is that they can push the narrative on WGR and such as "we are cleaning house." That is NOT a valid reason for making a decision.

 

I'll ask it another way, what were the advantages of how they did it? What did they gain? I'm not asking if it is their decision or not; I'm asking what they gained?

That's probably true. I am not advocating for anyone. I'm just advocating that they do their due dilligence.

Advantages gained:

-The new folks with shared vision hire there own folks. If Mcdermott wanted any of thise guys they would be retained. Why make Mcdermott work with anyone that he clearly doesnt wish to do so. The whole staff was evaluated. You are advocating for the same stink scenario thats been plaguing the Bills for years.

-Sooner fired sooner hired.

-Allows the fired employees an opportunity to seek employment.

-Start checking off the boxes of your wish list. Look we just got an Asst GM that was a lateral move. To insinuate that we wont be able to hire any people because of lateral moves is ridiculous.

-Change the culture. Those fired scouts shared a vision much like Whaleys philosophy. The new scouts will share a vision of Beane and the ciaches philosophy.

-Unity self explanatory.

Om sure if I thought about it for 20-30 more minutes I could come up with 5-6 foundational reasons that are advantages.

[Kirby Jackson]

Advantages gained:

-The new folks with shared vision hire there own folks. If Mcdermott wanted any of thise guys they would be retained. Why make Mcdermott work with anyone that he clearly doesnt wish to do so. The whole staff was evaluated. You are advocating for the same stink scenario thats been plaguing the Bills for years.

-Sooner fired sooner hired.

-Allows the fired employees an opportunity to seek employment.

-Start checking off the boxes of your wish list. Look we just got an Asst GM that was a lateral move. To insinuate that we wont be able to hire any people because of lateral moves is ridiculous.

-Change the culture. Those fired scouts shared a vision much like Whaleys philosophy. The new scouts will share a vision of Beane and the ciaches philosophy.

-Unity self explanatory.

Om sure if I thought about it for 20-30 more minutes I could come up with 5-6 foundational reasons that are advantages.

Every single one of those things could have happened once the GM was in place. That's been my point the entire time. I guess that I'm not explaining it clearly. I'm not advocating for keeping or getting rid of anyone. I'm advocating due dilligence.

[blacklabel]

I don't see this situation as a big deal. Teams in the past have cleaned house and filled their vacancies. It's a business and there are professionals running the show. McDermott and Beane have most definitely already constructed a list of candidates they'd like to contact. They just hired their Assistant GM who has more contacts. Combine that with the fact that year after year there are always plenty of young, eager scouts trying to get their foot in the door or perhaps trying to move to a different team. With each front office hire they're going to get someone who also has contacts and people they know that could be potential fits.

 

It'll happen quickly and quietly and then within a week or so we'll get a news-bite saying that they've filled out their scouting/personnel department and are prepared to head off the National or BLESTO scouting meetings. (For those that aren't sure what either of those are, they are independent scouting organizations that affiliate with NFL teams to assist/provide them with preliminary info on draft-eligible NCAA players). The Bills have been affiliated with BLESTO for quite a while. No idea if they'll switch, stay with BLESTO or choose to go independent (only five NFL teams aren't affiliated with one of these organizations: the Ravens, the Colts, Washington, the Raiders, and surprise surprise, the Pats.

 

It'll be fine. I get a sense that this FO with BB & SM at the helm will be very streamlined and collaborative with everyone on the same page. That's not to say I expect them to hire nothing but "yes men" but they will want individuals who can fall in line with the overall team building vision they have and provide valuable feedback when asked.

 

I'd love to be a scout but the reality of the job is that it's a pretty intense grind that doesn't pay very well. You spend a ton of time on the road, half your job is acting like a private investigator when trying to find out what players are like when they're off the field. You could spend a month hammering out details and writing reports on a number of prospects that might not even wind up on the board. And teams typically shuffle things in their scouting departments every 2-3 years even if they're winning so you're kind of always on the hot seat in terms of job longevity. As our old buddy Chan would put it, "it's a tough game fer tough people!"

[Rico]

Advantages gained:

-The new folks with shared vision hire there own folks. If Mcdermott wanted any of thise guys they would be retained. Why make Mcdermott work with anyone that he clearly doesnt wish to do so. The whole staff was evaluated. You are advocating for the same stink scenario thats been plaguing the Bills for years.

-Sooner fired sooner hired.

-Allows the fired employees an opportunity to seek employment.

-Start checking off the boxes of your wish list. Look we just got an Asst GM that was a lateral move. To insinuate that we wont be able to hire any people because of lateral moves is ridiculous.

-Change the culture. Those fired scouts shared a vision much like Whaleys philosophy. The new scouts will share a vision of Beane and the ciaches philosophy.

-Unity self explanatory.

Om sure if I thought about it for 20-30 more minutes I could come up with 5-6 foundational reasons that are advantages.

Yep.

 

It's pretty clear they wanted to send the message to everyone in the fanbase, the media, and still (for now) in the organization that a New Era is here. I support this 100%.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Rico

[3rdand12]

Yep.

 

It's pretty clear they wanted to send the message to everyone in the fanbase, the media, and still (for now) in the organization that a New Era is here. I support this 100%.

Like i said.

Optics for the fan base. Hard played.

Kirby has a rather valid point though.

too soon for me to decide, of course.

No Saint had a fine point about using the right process to achieve the goal. perhaps this IS the right method at this time

[LabattBlue]

Every single one of those things could have happened once the GM was in place. That's been my point the entire time. I guess that I'm not explaining it clearly. I'm not advocating for keeping or getting rid of anyone. I'm advocating due dilligence.

You explanation was crystal clear. People just choose to believe otherwise.

[NoSaint]

Like i said.

Optics for the fan base. Hard played.

Kirby has a rather valid point though.

too soon for me to decide, of course.

No Saint had a fine point about using the right process to achieve the goal. perhaps this IS the right method at this time

Yea, I'm not going to lose sleep over it on this particular one, and I still think there's a chance that we had our guy "hired" at the time of the move (I doubt McD makes that call unless he knows his GM likes that call, but you never know)

 

But if taken at the surface level - no one has really said a single advantage to doing it a week ago instead of today. Maybe it keeps some blood off Beanes hands? The new guy doesn't come in with hardfeelings towards him from cleaning house?

[Bill_with_it]

I don't think that Terry and Kim Pegula are more capable of evaluating a scout than the GM. They should have allowed the GM to keep or fire anyone that they wanted. I'm not advocating for anyone in particular. I do not believe that ALL 17 people that they fired are worse than the people on the street. That's not the point though. I'm not trying to use "the Patriots" do things this way but this is something that they never would have done. It is an incompetent decision. Again, IT MAY NOT MATTER but there was absolutely no benefit to the way that they did it. That is the exact point. It only could hurt them. They didn't gain one single advantage by firing those people before a GM was hired. All that happened is they allowed some people that they may have wanted to become free agents. That's not a good decision. The only possible benefit that I can see is that they can push the narrative on WGR and such as "we are cleaning house." That is NOT a valid reason for making a decision.

 

I'll ask it another way, what were the advantages of how they did it? What did they gain? I'm not asking if it is their decision or not; I'm asking what they gained?

That's probably true. I am not advocating for anyone. I'm just advocating that they do their due dilligence.

Kirby of lease dont insinuate that wasnt what you were stating.

 

Every single one of those things could have happened once the GM was in place. That's been my point the entire time. I guess that I'm not explaining it clearly. I'm not advocating for keeping or getting rid of anyone. I'm advocating due dilligence.

I guess Im not explaining myself clearer.

There was a plan clearly in place prior to the Beane hiring.

Just because the whole Bills fan populace wasnt privy ti the full spectrum that went into the decision doesnt make it less beneficial.

The quicker the old guard was released the quicker the new crew could be gone after.

 

 

The Beane Mcdermott connection was noted well in advance by one if the reporters.

 

Everyone claimed bs.

 

If you dont think Mcdermott and Beane had a plan prior to Beane being officially hired well, I think thats a tad bit naive.

[Kirby Jackson]

Kirby of lease dont insinuate that wasnt what you were stating.

 

I guess Im not explaining myself clearer.

There was a plan clearly in place prior to the Beane hiring.

Just because the whole Bills fan populace wasnt privy ti the full spectrum that went into the decision doesnt make it less beneficial.

The quicker the old guard was released the quicker the new crew could be gone after.

 

 

The Beane Mcdermott connection was noted well in advance by one if the reporters.

 

Everyone claimed bs.

 

If you dont think Mcdermott and Beane had a plan prior to Beane being officially hired well, I think thats a tad bit naive.

That's not what I am insinuating AT ALL. Everyone else here has seemed to get that.

 

I absolutely think that they had a plan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Beane to know all of those guys well before he was even hired!!! That's what I am saying. He should have evaluated everyone and then decided what he wanted to do. I can't say it any clearer. I don't care if he decided all 17 stayed or all 17 went or wherever in between (the likeliest scenario). The GM should have been involved in that process.

 

It may not make a difference so I don't want this to seem like a big deal. Will it work and was it a good decision are 2 different things.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Augie]

Every single one of those things could have happened once the GM was in place. That's been my point the entire time. I guess that I'm not explaining it clearly. I'm not advocating for keeping or getting rid of anyone. I'm advocating due dilligence.

I agree with you on the big picture (as usual). The order of things was not ideal. However, due to the close ties and assumed backdoor communication, I'd bet our incoming GM was just fine with the move. I agree was lost some talented people and probably would have been well served to keep at least a few of these people.

 

However, I've been through a bunch of bank mergers. I once took a job at a bank shortly after a merger. The person who hired me (from the buying bank - SunTrust) said I had a huge advantage because I wasn't on one side or the other. Things went fine through the first 2 Presidents, both from SunTrust. The 3rd President was from the acquired bank, and holy hell! The person who hired me resigned immediately. My boss was given a one year severance package. And war broke out on all the SunTrust people! Because I was associated with the SunTrust person who hired me, I caught the flak. Hard feelings linger a long time. I see both sides, including the advantages of a clean break.

[3rdand12]

Yea, I'm not going to lose sleep over it on this particular one, and I still think there's a chance that we had our guy "hired" at the time of the move (I doubt McD makes that call unless he knows his GM likes that call, but you never know)

 

But if taken at the surface level - no one has really said a single advantage to doing it a week ago instead of today. Maybe it keeps some blood off Beanes hands? The new guy doesn't come in with hardfeelings towards him from cleaning house?

I do not see a clear advantage of the move. wait and see. The Assistant GM pick up feels like a plan has been in place as it covers the assumed weakness of Beane. that smells like forethought

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Which begs the question...why are they currently unemployed?

 

Well, I haven't been following the news, but if it's fairly common to fire the scouting staff along with the GM then every team which was conducting a GM search this offseason ditched their scouts, so there's presumably a talent pool out there.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Well, I haven't been following the news, but if it's fairly common to fire the scouting staff along with the GM then every team which was conducting a GM search this offseason ditched their scouts, so there's presumably a talent pool out there.

this is true. I look at it as a layoff due to restructure vs a firing with NFL scouts in these situations. It's not necessarily performance related, it's more of a re-org that results in a sweeping out of the department. Guys that are good and fit the system of the teams hiring will get snapped up. Edited May 15, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Bill_with_it]

That's not what I am insinuating AT ALL. Everyone else here has seemed to get that.

 

I absolutely think that they had a plan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Beane to know all of those guys well before he was even hired!!! That's what I am saying. He should have evaluated everyone and then decided what he wanted to do. I can't say it any clearer. I don't care if he decided all 17 stayed or all 17 went or wherever in between (the likeliest scenario). The GM should have been involved in that process.

 

It may not make a difference so I don't want this to seem like a big deal. Will it work and was it a good decision are 2 different things.

Ok here you go like to see you fail to be honest again. These were your exact words:

I hope people understand that teams can block their scouts from interviewing with the Bills. The candidate pool is out of work scouts and coaches. That doesn't seem like the best idea. The Bills shouldn't have fired the whole staff. That was really stupid. They should have fired the guys that weren't good. Now, even if they want some of those guys back they are free agents. Don't be mistaken, this is a PROBLEM.

 

What were you saying?

 

You clearly wanted some of these guys kept and you are unhappy they weren't and you are masquerading that as some kind of disadvantage for the team.

 

Beane and Mcdermott have been lockstep.

 

Beane was reported as the GM candidate way back when Mcdermott was hired.

[Kirby Jackson]

Ok here you go like to see you fail to be honest again. These were your exact words:

 

 

What were you saying?

 

You clearly wanted some of these guys kept and you are unhappy they weren't and you are masquerading that as some kind of disadvantage for the team.

 

Beane and Mcdermott have been lockstep.

 

Beane was reported as the GM candidate way back when Mcdermott was hired.

How come only you are interpreting it that way? They shouldn't have fired all 17 guys. They should have evaluated EVERYONE. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? The GM should have been involved in the process. He wasn't an employee of the team so he certainly didn't have any input in their evaluation. That is the point. There was no advantage gained by firing them before he was hired. There was potential downside but no benefit.

[CanadianFan]

Oh no! the world is ending!

[Simon Says]

if it had to happen, it was done at the right time.

[oldmanfan]

Every single one of those things could have happened once the GM was in place. That's been my point the entire time. I guess that I'm not explaining it clearly. I'm not advocating for keeping or getting rid of anyone. I'm advocating due dilligence.

You don't know the conversation. Could be they were told they were clearing the decks for the new GM, abut to stay near the phone in case the GM wants a guy on the staff. That makes the GM the good guy vs. the bad guy.

[Kirby Jackson]

You don't know the conversation. Could be they were told they were clearing the decks for the new GM, abut to stay near the phone in case the GM wants a guy on the staff. That makes the GM the good guy vs. the bad guy.

That's the only possible upside but I'd sacrifice some optics for control. I can buy that though as their line of thinking. At the same time how would he know if they were good or bad if he didn't interview or evaluate them first-hand?

[Rico]

This just goes to show how far Whaley's star had fallen. All 17 had to go along with him, not a one was worth salvaging.

 

The reality was quite contrary to what many, many posters would say about him and his team the past couple years.